Let us know what you’re having trouble with on the triplea install on the triplea thread https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/category/28/triplea-support
I will try and help. If we can’t figure it out, I’m sure Panther can :)
G40 Halifax Rules
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I really like this for a lot of reasons…
1. It’s clean and simple
2. Russia can earn some protection money by DOW on Japan SU1
3. Germany can compete with Russia’s income due to Paris and Berlin at $10 each
4. A Russian DOW on Japan will allow for action on that front, as the Mongolians are neutralized
5. More income into the came will compliment the new major factories everywhere
6. Italy will get $10 for income, and $10 for Rome to start… that’s not to shabby
7. Japan can easily make $25 in bonuses as early as J2… they can no longer be ignored
8. Helps the UK to protect London, India, with enough left to place units in South Africa
9. Allows Germany the economic flexibility to build up their fleet if they so desire
10. With Germany making so much cake, Sealion is back as a viable strategy -
Beautiful!
And note also how easy all of that is to read!
This is the sort of the thing that gets us the cash we need for the game to actually function, while preserving a reasonably balanced, epic scale game, that makes good use of the starting Majors. It could potentially provide the whole game with a more equitable balance (Axis vs Allies.) Also the divisions with 10 and 5 seem to match up pretty well.
In effect you could say that all red dots (VCs) are worth 5 ipcs, and Capitals are getting an extra 5 on top of this (since you know, they’re Capitals) thus bringing them to 10 total. Feels totally doable, and can work with other types of rules as well if desired. But as a baseline, you’ve got a really strong start for each Nation/Side. I think it is great! sounds easy to implement, but also opens up a whole new strategic experience. Nice work
ps. that spread with the Capitals at 10 is near perfect. It gets each Nation up off the ground and income balance seems sound. Also the genius here is that the two big objective bonuses +10 for a capital and +5 for all other VCs, fits almost exactly the IC/Major scheme.
If the balance is close, as I expect it will be, then this leaves the door open if necessary to add in a last minute tweak on balance, by adding in a Minor Objective +3 (for each nation.) These minor NOs could be used to fine tune if needed, and then you’d have only one kind of specific objective to remember the +3. Just like the minor factory, it would be the only special case. Everything else Objectives wise, being basically generic
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Beautiful!
And note also how easy all of that is to read!
This is the sort of the thing that gets us the cash we need for the game to actually function, while preserving a reasonably balanced, epic scale game, that makes good use of the starting Majors. It could potentially provide the whole game with a more equitable balance (Axis vs Allies.) Also the divisions with 10 and 5 seem to match up pretty well.
In effect you could say that all red dots (VCs) are worth 5 ipcs, and Capitals are getting an extra 5 on top of this (since you know, they’re Capitals) thus bringing them to 10 total. Feels totally doable, and can work with other types of rules as well if desired. But as a baseline, you’ve got a really strong start for each Nation/Side. I think it is great! sounds easy to implement, but also opens up a whole new strategic experience. Nice work
Thanks for bringing it to my attention, it sounds similar to my Delta rule system, but here with Halifax… all the NOs are out.
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Did the math on the Pacific side and saw a $25 bonus swing for Japan while the US stays idle. Had no choice but to modify the setup, and remove a Japanese fighter, and a Japanese tactical bomber from Manchuria (which is what most people have always wanted anyway… now it makes perfect sense).
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+1 YG :wink:
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Thanks Tolberone! :mrgreen:
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FYI…
If the Axis prove to be consistantly weak, we should give Japan back their air units.
If the Allies prove to be consistantly weak, we should give US the War Bonds tech for free. -
I’ve been thinking all day about the Soviet Union DOW on Japan just to collect $15, and how this effects Germany. There has to be consequences for the Allies if Russia wants to collect $15 in free income at turn 1, and this is what I think is fair…
War conditions for collecting VC bonuses
A nation must be at war with at least 1 other nation in order to collect their VC bonuses for each city they control.
If the Soviet Union declares war on Japan by making an unprovoked attack, declares war without attacking, or declares war by moving units into Chinese territories, all Mongolian territories and standing armies will immediately become Japanese controlled.
China may still produce artillery if the Burma road is open.
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@Young:
I’ve been thinking all day about the Soviet Union DOW on Japan just to collect $15, and how this effects Germany. There has to be consequences for the Allies if Russia wants to collect $15 in free income at turn 1, and this is what I think is fair…
War conditions for collecting VC bonuses
A nation must be at war with at least 1 other nation in order to collect their VC bonuses for each city they control.
If the Soviet Union declares war on Japan by making an unprovoked attack, declares war without attacking, or declares war by moving units into Chinese territories, all Mongolian territories and standing armies will immediately become Japanese controlled.
China may still produce artillery if the Burma road is open.
I rather like it. Gives Russia the option, and still resolves the situation with Mongolia. I always thought the Mongolia rules were rather weird anyway. This simplifies the situation considerably, if Russia declares then Mongolia goes Axis, if Japan declares it goes Allies. Fairly easy to remember.
I’m still a little curious about the whole NAP thing in 1940 anyway. As far as I understand it, the Anti-Comintern Pact had been in effect since 1936, and though undeclared, the two countries were effectively at war on the boarder since 39. The formal neutrality pact wasn’t signed until April 13th 1941. Perhaps there was a ceasefire at some point in between, but as the war was never formally declared anyway, that would seem a bit curious. I had always thought that the Japanese defeat at Nomonhan merely deterred Japan from further escalation with the Russians, but without any sort of binding treaty or formal agreement until 41.
Whatever the case, the NAP is built into the game for better or worse, and at least the situation above provides an incentive for both sides to maybe try to work within it. If Russia declares, they get the 15 ipcs to use immediately in the build up against G, but only at the risk of pushing Mongolia into the Axis camp. Under the OOB rules Russia has no incentive, so they virtually always break the pact. Japans situation remains more or less the same, except that now, there is at least a chance that they might benefit in some way if Russia breaks the pact before they do, so they might hold off on a DoW of their own.
Simple, easy to understand, I like it :)
At least this way there is a cost to Russian DoW +15, since it gives Japan a little something more to work with along the Mongolian border…
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Can’t type for long…
I was wrong, Russia won’t get $15, they will get $20 (1 capital city, 2 non capital cities) which makes the Mongolian flip even more necessary. Also, decided to give Japan their planes back and give America some war bonds income… their making too little throughout a game like this for it to seem realistic.
Here are the changes I’ve made over the last 2 days…
PS: That poster was my Avatar for 6 years here at A&A.org
New Victory City Objectives:
Nations will no longer collect bonus income for national objectives, now during the collect income phase, eligible nations will collect bonus income for each victory city they control. A nation is eligible to collect bonus income for each VC they control if they are at war with at least 1 other nation.
10 IPCs for each capital city
- Washington
- London
- Paris
- Berlin
- Rome
- Moscow
- Tokyo
5 IPCs for each non-capital city
- Ottawa
- Warsaw
- Cairo
- Leningrad
- Stalingrad
- Calcutta
- Shanghai
- Hong Kong
- Manila
- Sydney
- Honolulu
- San Francisco
New Rule Modifications:
Setup:
- All minor industrial complexes now become major factories
- The major industrial complex in India now becomes a major factory
- Remove 1 Commonwealth fighter from New Zealand, and add 1 Commonwealth fighter to Ontario
The Mongolian Rule:
If the Soviet Union declares war on Japan by making an unprovoked attack, declares war without attacking, or declares war by moving units into Chinese territories, all Mongolian territories and standing armies will immediately become Japanese controlled.
American War Bonds:
During each collect income phase in which the United States are at war, America will roll 2 dice and collect the amout shown in IPCs. -
Its a great image :-D
Oh good point, Russia would be collecting nicely with Moscow. Finally a red bear that can do more than just hibernate haha. But you figure, the Mongolian infantry are worth nearly 20 themselves, and if activated could run amok up in Siberia, so it is basically even.
The main thing that has me excited is still the potential of the 5 factories, with the added scratch we’ll be seeing in play. I think this is going to make the factory game much more exciting.
If it seems appropriate, you might want to resurrect the old idea of National Advantages. Where each player nation gets just a single advantage they can exploit. I’m pretty leery of specialized rules, but because the entire complex NO scheme has been simplified using the City objective scheme, this does provide some flexibility. I would think that as long as you kept it just 1 special thing per Side, or 1 special thing for Nation, it would be cool. Its only when these rules start stacking up into several special rules that things start to balloon out of control. USA with warbonds is fairly simple. It implements a tech already in the game, so at least there’s that.
USA has been pretty weak, without the W.USA +30 NO. I like something to get them going but the DoW messes with the situation a bit. One of the reasons I liked to put China under direct US control in some games (aside from making the china rules simpler) is just so they have an early front to play around on. But standard OOB has China separate and for ease, I wouldn’t change things there. At least here you are working with stuff that is more or less already in place. I like it the mongolian thing and Warbonds
I think the new situation surrounding production is going to be a lot more fun!
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Ps. I think people will be surprised at how a slightly larger economy with just a bit more money in play works towards game resolution. You might expect that the opposite would occur, with more money equating to more units and more rolling, but I find that players are more likely to engage their units in battle when the money is at higher value per round. What prompts people to wait normally is that units are more expensive (proportional to the overall economy) so people are reluctant to take risks with them. Here you have the inverse thing going on.
It would probably be wise to take a wait and see approach before making further adjustments to the unit set up (beyond the Ontario fighter and the factories.) I see the factories as critical. The Ontario fighter is a nice novelty because of what we are doing with the Commonwealth. But taking units off the board should be a last resort. First see how it balances under the VCS with the Russians. It could be that Japan ends up needing those fighters.
I am also still looking to see if this scenario can run absent the DoW too, in which case it would be all VCs active from the ouset. No DoW might take it from Axis favored squarely into Allies favored territory. I think “entry” into war could have been better simulated just with turn order or unit set up rather than a seperate DoW or politics phase. But since it is a current part of the game it’s important for the Halifax rules to get them functioning properly.
With the City Objectives outlined by YG, and the Mongolia rules you have a real mechanic with hard economic values relating to DoW. Here the Japan/Russia nap would be basically back as part of the game. Likewise the Japanese DoW on USA is now a relevant decision again.
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Great posts Black Elk,
thanks for the support and all the great reading material…
I think it’s done…
time to take it to the convention,
8-) 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-)
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Sorry if I’m a bit late coming in on this, but I have a couple of thoughts on the Russian DOW/Japan/Mongolia situation.
First, I don’t think Russia should get their VC/Capital bonus until they are at war with Germany and/or Italy. Japan should not count in this regard. Remember that even with the OOB Russian NOs, they did not come into effect until Russia was at war in Europe. Also, because of Russia’s size, they were treated differently from all the other countries in terms of being at war. If they are at war on the Pacific map, they were still neutral on the Europe map and visa versa.As for Mongolia, I do like your idea of if Russia makes an unprovoked DOW against Japan (either by attack or moving units into China) then Mongolia turns Japanese. If Japan attacks Russia, Mongolia turns Russian.
I like this better than the current version where if Japan attacks, Mongolia becomes Russian but if Russia attacks, Mongolia simply stays strict neutral. So Japan gets punished for aggression but Russia doesn’t? -
KNP,
I think it will be more than OK to give Russia the bonuses based on the following math:
Round 1 with National Objective bonuses (J1 DOW)
Germany -10
USA -20
China -6
UK -5
ANZAC -5 (sometimes 10)Ratio is 1:3 (if you consider the extra Japanese income vs. Japanese bonuses a wash)
Round 1 with Victory City bonuses (J1 DOW)
Germany -25
Japan -25 (+Mongolia)
Italy -10Russia -20
USA -20 (+ 2 Dice)
UK -20
Commonwealth -10Ratio is less than 1:2 (if you consider the Mongolia vs. dice bonuses a wash)
So if we analyze this data correctly, giving 20 IPCs to Russia turn 1 may not be enough for the Allies,in fact… we may need to consider removing the Japanese air units again.
The only thing that is giving the Allies a chance against the extra Axis cash, is the Russian bonuses, and the overall increased production capabilities for the Allies.
Here is another reason to leave it for now… Imagine you are Russia turn 1 and in order to collect $20 bonus IPCs, you have to declare war on Japan giving them the Mongolian armies.
A tough choice leading to a fun scenerio!
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…and here’s another way of looking at it.
In a regular G40 game:
Japan can dominate the Pacific theater with only one 5 IPC National Objective no sooner than round 2 and more likely round 3.
All this while the Allies are collecting 20 for the US, 6 for China, and 5 (maybe 10) for ANZAC.
Also, with or without a single UK economy, Calcutta is producing at least 5 infantry on India.
In a Halifax game:
Japan will get 15 IPCs in bonuses turn 1 without a DOW (5 more than a G40 game), and 25 IPCs in bonuses when they make their move, where not much has changed for the Allies.
So… we give Russia 20 (which they surly must spend toward Japan), and 2 dice rolls for more American money (which could end up snake eyes).
I think I just talked myself into removing the Japan planes again…
I’m loving these bonus adjustments, should be really fun to play.
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…and here’s another way of looking at it.
With Germany not losing bonuses for attacking Russia, and Russia gaining their VC bonuses R1 anyway, we are surly to see an eastern front battle a lot sooner (some of the most entertaining games we’ve had were when Germany and Russia were fighting early). The only reason Germany should not attack G1 is so Japan can have Mongolia, but I can totally see them invading G2 for sure.
This just keeps getting better and better.
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Yeah I think we should be at a pretty even split now Axis vs Allies. Or at least, it seems that whatever starting balance we end up with, it’s probably going to be more exciting. The UK bonus and more effective Commonwealth should also go a long way towards this end. I think play testing should reveal a balance even better suited to dynamic gameplay than OOB. If it does end up tilting one way or the other, I think we’ll be in a good position to fine tune things once we see the actual situation play out a few times. I would save further modifications to the set up until then.
Basically under the new rules we should see entirely new purchasing strategies develop, on account of the extra loot in play and the extra production from the Majors. Whatever the balance both sides will have more to work with at purchase, which should provide new challenges and a fresh feel when compared to OOB.
As for theater restrictions or theater specific rules, I’d try to get rid of these whenever possible. The whole point of global is to unify the two mapboards into a single game, just like the UK and India, Russia should receive the same treatment rules-wise on the Europe and Pacific side of the board, if we can. The less “exceptions” to the general rules we have the better, or at least, that’s what I’ve always felt.
I agree too, the eastern front has a lot of potential. What seems to work against it OOB, seems to work for it here in Halifax. I’m pretty stoked for my next game! And after action reports from the people who give this new scheme a try
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Just to reiterate why this adjustment has me so intrigued…
1. It takes the two seperate Europe and Pacific games and brings them together more seamlessly than the OOB second edition rules do. Not only have we simplified the factions in play (by getting rid of one, and expanding another), but we have also simplified the rules pertaining to them.
2. We have dramatically streamlined the overall economy. Taking 30 complex Objectives down to just one basic system that is universal and super easy to understand.
3. Virtually everything we’ve done has a visual/aesthetic coherence. From the roundels, to the factories, to the Cities. All the critical information is displayed more or less directly on the gameboard itself, making it much easier to read at a glance.
4. We give each player, regardless of Side/Nation new strategic options with the promise of more engaging gameplay for all.
5. We have finally given VCs a real influence on the gameplay mechanics, bolstering the NAP and DoW concepts in the process.
Glorious :-D
Ps. I feel reasonably confident that I could take a player who knows how to play Classic Revised or 1942.2 and teach them how to play Global using these Rules. Most of the main obstacles in the learning curve are overcome with this Halifax set up. Basically all a new player has to do now is familiarize themselves with the new unit roster and a couple simple rules about cities and mongolia. Everything else is intuitive and should come very naturally to players who have experience with say 1942.2. This makes me happy
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Gave New Zealand their fighter back… NOW IT’S FINISHED!
3 play test games this weekend… new YouTube video to follow.
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