Yeah, you guys have a point. Putting S Africa in the Commonwealth does restrict the UK too much. Plus, the UK really need South Africa to protect Africa and Egypt from the Italians.
Also, it does seem kind of silly for the Commonwealth to have 3 Major Factories in order to spend 20 IPCs. I think the next time we play, I am going to adjust the Commonwealth back to 17 IPCs and put S Africa back into the UK.
Yeah, you guys have a point. Putting S Africa in the Commonwealth does restrict the UK too much. Plus, the UK really need South Africa to protect Africa and Egypt from the Italians.
Also, it does seem kind of silly for the Commonwealth to have 3 Major Factories in order to spend 20 IPCs. I think the next time we play, I am going to adjust the Commonwealth back to 17 IPCs and put S Africa back into the UK.
“These are not the droids you’re looking for…. move along”
I would have to disagree with saying that making SA part of the Commonwealth would make the allies weaker. I think it makes them much stronger. It would make taking Africa almost impossible for the Axis since they could just place 5 mechs a turn in SA. I think I would do this every game, and almost every turn. Imagine how hard it would be for Italy or Germany to take out Egypt if there are 5 more units there every turn? UK could then focus on defense for UK/India, and possibly build a minor in Egypt to get a fleet. Since they don’t have to worry about having defensive ground units in Africa as much.
My buy in most games as UK would be 3 inf 2 art, or mech, in India, and 6 inf for UK. While SA purchases 5 Mech every turn to defend the middle east/Africa. This alone might be enough to warrant no bids needed, and I love it :)
You realize that the Commonwealth (if it includes S Af) would start with only 20 IPCs right. 5 mech would drain there entire income leaving nothing for Canada or Australia. They could make as bit more w/NO, but I don’t think they could afford to do that one turn, much less over several turns. Then there is still the problem that UK/Commonwealth units can’t attack together (only def), so as an attack force those Mech by themselves would be pretty weak.
I think they could. Why does Canada need to produce anything unless you want to build up a transport force with UK/US and have Canada build DD’s for defense. Also Anzac doesn’t need to build anything, at least on the first turn, since US just got 100% after Japan. You almost deny an axis win in Europe by building 5 mech a turn in SA, so why not do that and have US just ignore Germany all together? This would of course be coupled with UK having a factory in Egypt and Persia/Iraq, or maybe West India. UK should be building then 11 ground a turn in Egypt, India, and Persia/Iraq/West India. This alongside the 5 ground that Anzac builds for at least the first 2 turns in SA means that Germany and Italy are really hard pressed to take Egypt. After the first couple turns you can focus your builds more towards Pacific if you like, while still building a couple units in SA.
I think the important thing to remember weather you’re playing a Commonwealth nation with or without South Africa, is the incredible amount of strategic diversity that would make each game different. At this point, I would use my Commonwealth money to help the UK sustain a viable fleet in the Atlantic while the Americans go 95% Pacific.
Another thing you could do for sure, but I don’t know if a fleet would be enough pressure on Germany/Italy to stop him from taking Egypt anyways. Without US there in Mass, Italy doesn’t need much to defend Western Germ/Southern Italy. In other words your fleet wouldn’t be as valuable as say all ground and fighters.
Dang, now theROCmonster makes a good point. By using Commonwealth (CW) units to defend Egypt, UK is basically defending Egypt with no expense. Also, Canada and ANZAC don’t really need to spend anything in those areas, at least for 2 or 3 rounds.
I’m going to really have to think hard about which way I want to incorporate the CW.
Dang, now theROCmonster makes a good point. By using Commonwealth (CW) units to defend Egypt, UK is basically defending Egypt with no expense. Also, Canada and ANZAC don’t really need to spend anything in those areas, at least for 2 or 3 rounds.
I’m going to really have to think hard about which way I want to incorporate the CW.
I wrote a long post but somehow lost it while sending… UHG! too tired to rewrite :cry:
I found great tokens for my production units, blue, red, and green wooden houses from my Settlers of Catan game.
Love settelers of catan! Great game to drink and play with friends :)
I’ve been setting up for two basic trials. One with regular Canzac (Canada + Anzac) and one with South Africa included in the Commonwealth.
I find that when using the 1st ed Pac map combined for Global then I prefer the former (using the Butternut Canadians purely for aesthetic definition) because the Canadian roundels are already in place. Like Knp I dont like seperating them off, because I think global has too many factions already. When using the 2nd ed maps I am already chipping out all of Canada with Anzac roundels anyway, so 2 down in South Africa and S.W. Africa doesn’t seem too difficult.
I’ll admit to a preference for cleaner starting numbers. 35 seems cleaner than 38, and 20 seems cleaner than 17. Purely from the standpoint of starting cash hand! haha. But it’s harder to say which is best stragically for balance. Canzac SA seems better for spamming ground, but UK SA seems better from a naval and transport launch perspective.
My buddy and I are also quite fond of replacing all units to match the roundel (whatever the territory spread chosen), so we are definitely considering the possibilities of French units in England changing to Brit, and Anzac in Malaya and Egypt changing to Brit. We both find Co-Located starting units annoying as it is requires more space with multinationals co-locating at the outset. That’s an optional aside, but might be helpful for UK balance if needed.
Still under consideration for us is whether to replace ships in adjacent sea zones for Canzac, or to leave the ships UK.
My main interest in g40 is also to find a way to play Halifax without NOs, (or using only generic objectives), which may play a factor in whether we end up deciding to go Canzac or UK for South Africa.
Just at a glance spamming Canzac infantry in SA in the first round looks like it could be rather effective in locking down the continent in subsequent rounds. I do rather agree with Roc that when SA is an option then production in Canada itself becomes somewhat irrelevant. Not sure whether I like this or not though. Sure it helps Allies control Africa, but it kind of makes commonwealth more of a one trick deal.
We are also considering other tweaks to the standard Halifax, such as retaining a Capital in Sydney to see if it can function as a bait for Japan, and incentive for US Pacific engagement.
In its most basic form we read the Halifax set up as a
Unified UK/UK pacific with 3 tiered Industrial Complexes (at the values outlined in this thread)… But with the final part of the set up, which specific territories to make Commonwealth, we are leaving things open to interpretation.
Canzac or AfriCanzac? :-D
Seems like an open question still.
I favor Canzac for Simplicity, but I’m intrigued by the potential of that 3rd front too. As of now I lean toward regular Canzac just for ease of set up and to see if they can work in the Atlantic (or if the money just always gets dumped in the Pac.) I suspect that UK in SA will be our first trials, but if we go AfriCanzac and it doesn’t bust the set up to hard, might check it out in our next game with battle bonus and VC bonus instead of NO to see how that effects things. Our general rule for VCs gives a +5 at collect income for control, which has the potential to make Canzac more effective Atlantic since they could get up to 10 extra instead of 5 for the standard NO. I’m hopefully we might strike a good balance with the VC bonus since I’ve long hoped for a game on this map without the need for National Objectives, but that remains to be seen. Still whatever the spread ends up being I already know I prefer it to OOB, just for the production and UK stuff!
Also another aside but Midway is playing on my TV right now, and CWO Marcs call on the war room was dead on (whichever thread he mentioned that in) makes me hungry for battle in the pacific. Canzac Pacific game with or without SA will surely be improved by these rules and that excites me as much as the Atlantic and African prospects.
Should be fun!
Fantastic video presentation YG!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7Bp-VBlur8
That board set up us killer! I dig the table and the way you have it all boxed off and organized in such meticulous and visually appealing way. Especially appreciated the overview on production the explanation on downgrading/upgrading with clarifications on set up tweaks like the Ontario fighter.
One quick follow up on upgrading or “liberating” a factory. Example Germany takes France. Paris is captured and the Original 10 (IC) is downgraded to 3 (Minor). Cannot be upgraded by G beyond 3 Minor. UK or America liberates France. The 3 Minor is returned to French control, where it can then be upgraded (once France has the money to do so), back to 5 Major but not beyond. This is the only case where a 5 Major can be returned to play. The only production facility that can be purchased is the 3 Minor. The only factories that can be upgraded are those which start as 5 (or more), only to a value of 5 (no more) and only by the original owner. Seems fairly straight forward.
Great video! Thanks dude
Ps. I’m excited for how these rules can enhance the Pacific theater…!
Thank you for the video. I too enjoyed it. Could not “like” it, as I am a thickomand could not join Google to do so. (Will ask the wife how.)
Just a quick question: where does your Canadian Ft go? (good idea, by the way).
Am I right in thinking it cannot fly across the Channel? Is it stuck?
I also wonder his much the loss of that second NZ Ft will hurt the defence of Oz. (scrambling wise).
Otherwise. I wish I could give it a go. I will try to put it on AAA, by using Edit Mode and play a friend on here. Will tell you if I get to implement that.
Enjoy your day guys.
Yeah we should get it up for testing. Solitaires, first rounds, and pick up games in TripleA can show us more about how the set up changes work. A first round start save could handle it with edit mode until a working mod is put together if desired. Curious to see how it plays.
Meantime going to try this face to face first, as with all new rules that really intrigue me :)
As for the Ontario fighter, it could be switched in, or also simply added (retaining the second at NZ) if the balance on Anzac feels too tight. But something tells me the canadian income benefit gets you more in the long run than the NZ fighter. Will have to see how it shakes down.
Right now I think the logic on Ontario is mainly historical, the fighter would be out of position in the first round (so it doesn’t really alter the Atlantic balance too substantially) but it could still transit out of Nova Scotia in the second round. Which is kind of cool, since it’s basically doing a Halifax flyby in that case! haha! Likely to land on deck I guess. Or Canzac buys an airbase maybe? Trying to get it out into position would be something for the Commonwealth player to have in the back of their mind as a Tactical goal. I rather like it. I saw it as optional, but one that makes sense. I also think I favor the ship change UK to Commonwealth in case the transport gets into it. So far I like what I’m seeing.
Again, the bunker video explaining Halifax is pretty glorious!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7Bp-VBlur8
These rules are smoking!!! :-D Just like an Akagi carrier deck…
Haha!
That video is awesome, explains the production centers very well, and hits home what you want out of Halifax (changes to how both powers work).
BTW, at first glance I was wondering why the ftr was placed in Ontario, and not in Quebec. I quickly realized that Quebec would cause some set-up issues because it could get to London on the second turn (via Iceland), or land directly on a newly built UK carrier in sz109 in the first round (can still do the later on round two). The CAnzac can still get it into action a bit faster (from Ontario), by flying it to Quebec and building an airbase there (as mentioned). They could also build there own carrier in sz106, and land it on it round one as well, but either way it would take a considerable investment.
I know you have house ruled a UK ftr on Ontario into the standard G40 game (in place of using a bid), and gotten great reviews (tested) so it is nice to see it carry over into Halifax (now swapping it over from New Zealand).
After a little research I also see the historical aspect of the British Commonwealth Air Training Plan (BCATP), or “The Plan” based in Ontario. It took some time to get that program off the ground (pun intended), and get those pilots into the fold. So again, nice job YG in regards to playability and following a historical path.
Thank you everyone for all the compliments, I spent all night adding subtitles just to see this morning that they didn’t show up in the video… URG!!! I will try to see what happened and fix it. I love those settlers of Catan houses… more later.
Don’t stress it dude, you’re doing a great job stitching this all together. I can’t wait to see a real D-Day with the Dominions in on the action. Subtitles will be great for some our players for whom English is not their first language, but the visuals alone make it so much clearer. So much of the game is so much easier to pick up when someone is there showing you what’s what’s instead of reading it in a rulebook. Video is very helpful! Thanks for all the hard work put in on this.
Just a quick side note about London falling with UK unified… I think my preference would be a game where London collapse isn’t built into the set up. Sea Lion breakers if they crop up could be handled with other tweaks if needed. But already, I am enjoying the set up a lot more under these rules than the OOB. I think they will be my standard
Just repaired the video which should now contain about 10 speech ballon notes… can someone please confirm that they show up in the video when you watch it?
Thanks.
Yes they are working. Excellent job YG!
Yes they are working. Excellent job YG!
OK, Thanks… That’s really weird because they show up when I play the video on my Mac laptop, but not on my iPhone.
