@ncscswitch:
Just a shuffling of forces, and you would probably have 1-2 fewer INF alive in China afterwards. But China still falls, and the Pearl Fleet (with bonus death of UK FIG) is killed.
All right, I’ve kind of played around with this and I conceed that this is indeed could work; however, there is one thing that maybe over-looked or somebody can correct me on this. Assuming the UK fig hits the sub and goes to Pearl, then you have to send 3fig, 1bom, and 1 des. I ran the numbers on Frood and with any less planes you’re hoping for a miracle. That still leaves you with enough air, ground, and navy to hit China and Bury. I figure 5 inf, 1fig vs. China and 3 inf, 1arm 1bb shot, and 2 fig vs. Bury. Now, assuming the UK went hard against your Kwan Tran and went Des and AC and maybe even tran, you really only have your BB and AC to attack it. I haven’t ever played a game where Bury, China, and Pearl were all hit on the first turn. Assuming this is done, I’d have to say the best move would be to block the brit fleet and hit it next turn. Are there any risks associated to this that Im overlooking?
Key phrase:
“I haven’t ever played a game where Bury, China, and Pearl were all hit on the first turn.”
–
My approach to this with Japan is to leave Burytia alone. I can kill every Russian unit on the coast on Japan’s second turn.
Block what Brit fleet?
Key phrase:
"I haven’t ever played a game where Bury, China, and Pearl were all hit on the first turn.
Harsh!
Well, if you took time to read the thread you’d see that Switch said Bury, China, and Pearl could all be done. I was skeptical, but now I believe him. However, I was curious as to the UK des, and AC and possible tran that could be used to kill the Kwan tran. Thats the fleet I was talking about :wink:
Key phrase:
"I haven’t ever played a game where Bury, China, and Pearl were all hit on the first turn.
Harsh!
Well, if you took time to read the thread you’d see that Switch said Bury, China, and Pearl could all be done. I was skeptical, but now I believe him. However, I was curious as to the UK des, and AC and possible tran that could be used to kill the Kwan tran. Thats the fleet I was talking about :wink:
1. I do not say you should believe me. I do not say you should believe Switch. I say you should believe in yourself, in true friends, and in God. There are those that believe in beer. I am one of them. Draw your own conclusions.
2. I can’t read. So much for your “read the thread” comment. I would think you could be more sensitive about my disability.
3. I am supposing 6 inf in Burytia. If there is nothing in Burytia, you don’t need to send a lot of attackers, which makes “attacking Bury/China/Pearl” very simple.
4. If Burytia has a lot, I will probably try to smoke China and Pearl by sending in massive superior numbers. With three transports built, I will have no problem beating the crap out of Manchuria and Burytia. Any Russian units on the coast die on J2.
5. The sole exception is if UK consolidated their naval units in the Indian Ocean. If the UK is allowed to keep a large Indian Ocean fleet for the start of UK2, it can mean a quick end for Japan; US fleet elements claim an island and UK carrier, destroyer, transport, sub move in to reinforce. In that case, I may hit the UK fleet and Asia quick and hard.
oh yeah, the Brit fleet.
Japs go after Brits. Assume they get 3 transport 1 tank.
Sea zone east of Japan has battleship and 4 transports. (Assume Kwangtung transport killed) The most UK will have available to attack that is transport, destroyer, carrier, fighter, and bomber on UK2.
If UK used its air up for the UK turn (that is, leaving them out of threatening range of Japan’s navy, very possible), what actually threatens that Jap battleship and 4 transports is the UK carrier and destroyer. That’s fine. Japan has a free hit, and after that, inexpensive transports die.
If UK moved its transport, fighter, and bomber east to threaten Japan’s sea zones, that leaves immediate holes in UK’s game, key being Anglo-Egypt. This creates its own set of problems for UK. Japan is still threatened, but Japan has plenty of ways of dealing with that threat, one of which involves leaving Pearl Harbor alone to allow more Japanese units to wipe out the UK fleet.
So that addresses the question of 1) splitting the UK fleet, and 2) using the UK fleet aggressively early. The third case, unification of the UK fleet southwest of Australia (or thereabouts) also leaves UK with a set of problems, but is also addressable by Japan. Since that UK move is not immediately threatening, Japan can carry out Pearl, but Japan will have to race back to deal with UK, which can be a real pain if UK fighters flew east from London.
You folks have basically worked this out, but to summarize:
On Round 1, all of the combat except Pearl is in Japan’s sphere of influence (and Pearl is in both Japan and USA spehere).
That means that if Russia or UK come into that area, they are basically dead. They cannot be reinforced, and after the J1 build, combat, and NCM’s, they are not going to do any more real damage to Japan.
Let the DST/AC live in SZ59 if you don;t want to risk your SZ37 ships (though you have an 81% chance to kill that mini fleet)
Pearl dies.
China falls.
Bury Falls.
That leaves the Russians with no appreciable force east of Moscow
The UK without a significant fleet presence in the Pacific
USA with only 3 ships in the Pacific (incl the DST off Panama)
Meanwhile, Japan has just set up to start a non-stop flow of forces to Asia that will begin in earnest on J2, and the Allies cannot move to even THINK about slowing/stopping that flow for 2 turns, which means Japan has time to prepare for it if the Allies do attempt KJF.
The only question that preceeds J1 in Asia and the Pacific is:
How much effort and resource do the Allies want to put into trying to slow down Japan?
And it is VERY expensive to try to slow Japan down in J1 and J2…
Personally, the best option is just to leave the Russians alone in Bury. They aren’t much of a threat. If they stay put, they die. If they advance to Manchuria, they gain 3 IPC’s and then they die. If they advance 1 inf to Manchuria and pull the rest back to Yakut, they trade an infantry for 3 IPC’s and if they are lucky they kill a Japanese infantry for their effort.
All of those options are far more acceptable to me than risking not only peripheral naval units but also aircraft. Leaving the Russian’s alone doesn’t hurt much at all, but going into sz52 with less than overwhelming force can ruin Japan’s day. And it will happen often enough.
6 Infantry just isn’t going to beat 2 infantry, 1 artillery, 1 armor, 1 battleship and 1 fighter
Wanna bet? Been there, done that.
43% of the time, the 6 INF WILL win that fight…
And it’s bad enough that you’ll be sacrificing 1/3 of what Japan starts with on mainland Asia but it’s also heartbreaking to watch the armor die because you can’t retreat it from the battle if it goes badly.
to the orginial question how long does it take to drive to moscow the answer is 4660 miles or anywhere from 50 to 78 horurs depending on how fast you drive. http://www.indo.com/cgi-bin/dist/place2=moscow%2C+russia?place1=tokyo%2C+japan
but i say you should slways attack buryatia if russia moves there unless you can better use those battleships. most of the time you should attack.
I would say Japan is better off focusing their forces on the US and UK territories. My reasoning is that If the Russians stack in BURY that is all they have. Russia can’t create a focused attack on Japan from the North. So as Japan it is really a non threat. When you have more transports and can get some more forces to take the little soviets out.
That is exactly WHY you blast it… remove ALL threat from Russia and open a clear path to Moscow.
What Japan MOST wants to avoid is those 6 INF being used in a delaying tactic that slows the Japan advance and chews up Japan INF. Kill them all in one shot, then drop the massed INF (Japan, Oki, Wake, Phil) on J2 in Bury and start WALKING.
As for how fast…
Current game I have 10 INF on the Russian Front Lines as Japan after J5. 1 in Evenk, Kazakh, Persia, 7 in Novo. I could have had up to 9 more INF in that front wall, but I held most of my INF back this turn, pressing hard only in Novo…
And just FYI: I have 14 INF in the second tier territories of Yakut/Sinkiang/India, and have a Japan foothold in Africa while the Germans still have not been cleared from Africa…
Newbie here, i am still trying to figure out how to get japan involved as earliest as possible on the mainland. i see everyone is big on taking bury, but my question is, shouldn’t japan be taking out china in J1? getting rid of that fighter is crucial. also i have tried Pearl Harbour and attacking india in the same round and was successful. i am now leaning towards leaving the BS in SZ60, to try and help with the transportation of troops into Bury.
Newbie here, i am still trying to figure out how to get japan involved as earliest as possible on the mainland. i see everyone is big on taking bury, but my question is, shouldn’t japan be taking out china in J1? getting rid of that fighter is crucial. also i have tried Pearl Harbour and attacking india in the same round and was successful. i am now leaning towards leaving the BS in SZ60, to try and help with the transportation of troops into Bury.
Build 3 transports and 1 tank.
You’re right about China and that fighter; good assessment. What people aren’t writing is that they hit Burytia AND China. China’s almost a given.
Doing Pearl AND India is . . . tricky.
tricky but not unheard of…id say in over half my games i can pull it off…
Build 3 transports and 1 tank.
Interesting. Care to elaborate on the tank? I never build a tank that early because I never think I need a second one that early when I have all that fighter support against very little opposition. J2 or J3 I’ll build and IC or two and start pumping tanks (as well as building half inf/half tanks at Japan). Do you need another tank that early, or are 2 inf better?
Alright switch I see your point. Taking out that stack does free up that northern route. I was thinking if you send your invasion force of inf from Japan you can BB bombard as long you leave 1 BB in sz60. Also if you have most of your AF in the Area you can take that stack of 6 inf with very little loss.
Don’t put TOO much faith in me…
I am getting kicked out of the E/N/K/P perimeter as we speak…
But yes, you can advance much faster if htose units die right away. If they retreat and slow you, they just bleed away your forces as you advance…
I would say Japan is better off focusing their forces on the US and UK territories. My reasoning is that If the Russians stack in BURY that is all they have. Russia can’t create a focused attack on Japan from the North. So as Japan it is really a non threat. When you have more transports and can get some more forces to take the little soviets out.
Thats exactly WHY you tear through. It takes SO much preassure off of Germany when Japan invades. It just makes the whole game easier for the axis if Russia can be cut down to next to nothing.
Build 3 transports and 1 tank.
Interesting. Care to elaborate on the tank? I never build a tank that early because I never think I need a second one that early when I have all that fighter support against very little opposition. J2 or J3 I’ll build and IC or two and start pumping tanks (as well as building half inf/half tanks at Japan). Do you need another tank that early, or are 2 inf better?
1. Assuming the Kwangtung transport was destroyed by UK, I will have 4 transports at the end of J1. Even so, I will have enough infantry to fill those transports on J2. I think I grab 2 from Phillipines, 1 from Wake, 1 from Midway, 2 from Japan, 1 artillery from Japan, plus the tank produced on J1. In short - you don’t NEED 2 inf, your transports are already being filled, so why bother making infantry?
2. Tanks help you hold ground, infantry don’t. Tanks can also blitz. The earlier you have a tank on the front, the more it can do.
3. I prefer to produce tanks, so I can divert from an attack from India to Ssinkiang to Yakut quickly. Infantry and a couple artillery are always valuable, but the Allies CAN shift position to respond to concentrations of slow-moving Japanese infantry. The Allies have a far more difficult time stopping Japanese tanks from doing mass reinforcement, blitzing, and territory claiming.
