A lot of posters seemed stunned at this scenario, never scene it ever happen or even could happen. Now that I mulled it over last night and looked at the rules and so forth it is very obvious to me why no one has ever scene this scenario. Because the scenario makes no logical sense.
Italy DOW on Russia and moves in 2 tanks into Eastern Poland.
Russia is now at war with Italy and can DOW on Germany at the start of their next turn, turn 3.
Germany on Turn 3 does not DOW on Russia and just non combats into Eastern Poland.
Russia at the start of Turn 3 DOW on Germany and off we go.There is no logical reason why Russia would not DOW on Germany at the start of Turn 3, none.
Heck you could argue that it makes no logical sense that Germany did not DOW on Russia at the start of G3 since Italy brought Russia into the war and Russia WILL DOW on Germany on R3.
Hi PainState,
From my perspective, if I was planning on doing a G3 Barbarossa AND I wanted to drive towards the south, then yes, it makes sense to not DOW. My stack will be together except for the minimum required mobile units and maybe 1 AAA in Poland so Russia doesn’t attack Poland to get their NO for occupying an Axis territory. But E. Poland will be real strong because the German air will be there and maybe bombers will also be in range of a raid on the Moscow factory. Also, 5 IPCs is more income than I’d probably get as Germany on the 1st turn.
There are a few disadvantages of course. 1, Russian blockers can’t be attacked. 2, the Scandinavian units are behind. But for me that’s ok, I just use them to lay siege anyways. I never expect to get Moscow on turn 6 anymore. I assume that the UK/Anzac and that lone French fighter are going to get to Moscow.Â
Strategic Answer about Japan DOW timing
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Assuming German DOW against Russia is on turn 2, it’s a bad/good idea a Japan DOW against Russia on turn 1 (after German and Russia turn)?
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I do not think it matters. Just because you DOW, doesn’t mean you have to invade.
Many Russians will DOW first, as they can then move into Western China with Mech units to help out.
If the Russian players moves all 18 INf into Amur and has not DOW you first, I think you have to do so and ATTACK! -
Yes. i think so too.
But if russia stack inf in Sakha?
i could attack anyway, in amur and soviet far east… -
Soviet Far East and Amur are two different matters.
SFE is fair game and advisable if you want a Barbarossa on G2.
Amur however brings the 6 Mongolians into play. You need to be ready to be fighting those extra units. You might rather have the Russians here, than in front of Moscow, of course. -
so the “mongolian rule” is not optional?
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No. I am afraid not.
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Personaly,
No and heres why!Your units are out of place compltly to do RUSSIA R1 why i did (mind you) this was just once and we were trying a kill russia first strat!
my first round buys was 2 IC in Korea and Manchura and transported as many units as i could and to the russian border.
So that at the begining of Round 2 as japan i was able to place 6 fresh units down and still transport 6 more from Japan, And now most of planes are now in place for a soild push into russia and since i now have mech it can help you move fast across…
What i did and it worked for a win was Do not attack any of the other allied powers I.E. Calcuta, Anzacs or the United States… they will be forced to sit there till Round 3 and America Round 4 by then Germany was 2 turns away from Moscow and Japan was Just about to start Stratigic Bombing of Russia
But i would only advise doing this once and on a loof nothing to be taken serious! lol
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you cannot build in manchuria. (china territory) but in korea you can.
1 IC (for Korea) and 2 transport and DOW on turn 2.
I would also attack china normally with standard attacks. -
You can build in China cause its Terratory is 2 or Greater its the same rules as if i wanted to build in Honkong or Malia Basicaly  any  Terratory that is 2 or greater and isnt Island can have a Factory
Now you can not Upgrade your Factory in China to a greater Factory and Produce 10 units from  there but you can do that in Korea since that is your Terratory
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Assuming German DOW against Russia is on turn 2, it’s a bad/good idea a Japan DOW against Russia on turn 1 (after German and Russia turn)?
Really depends on whether russia stacks amur or not.
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One interesting tactic I have seen is for Japan to invade Soviet Far East, Siberia and Sakha. They can do this without activating the Mongolians for Russia because none of those territories border Mongolia.
If you do this and leave either Manchuria, Korea or both somewhat lightly defended –- you can’t just leave them totally empty or Russia will figure out what you are doing. A few troops have to die for the greater good. — it may very well tempt Russia to attack either one or both of those territories.
Once Russia attacks, the Mongolians will NOT join Russia and will stay strict neutral the rest of the game (unless directly attacked of course). That can keep an extra 6 infantry out of Soviet hands and most likely Japan will have plenty enough to transport over and take Korea and/or Manchuria right back from the Russians, destroying their eastern force in the process and probably opening the way for a nice Japanese romp all through northern Russia. Put a few Japanese tanks and mechs up there and blitz away. In 3-4 more rounds, Japan can deny 8-10 IPCs from the Soviet income. That’s less Soviet units to try and come back on Japan. That’s less Soviet units defending Moscow against your buddy Germany.
Of course, this strategy doesn’t bode well for Japan’s interests in China, against India or the DEI. Then again, if this makes it easier for Germany to take Moscow, it may end up in an overall Axis victory. Also, if the US decides to go heavy Europe trying to help Russia, Japan may be able to go nuts throughout the Pacific and Asia, even if a few rounds late. -
I agree with knp, though I think I’d use less units against Russia. Attacking Russia doesn’t need to be at the cost of progress in China & India.
My basic stance towards Russia is: if all the Siberians stay to face me and position well (i.e. not in Amur where I can instantly destroy them), I don’t attack J1-J3. If Germany is going to launch Barbarossa, Russia is in for a shock in Europe without these Siberians over there. If Germany is launching Sea Lion, too bad for Japan but the Siberians are here to stay…On the other hand, if all the Siberians retreat towards Moscow (and if barbarossa is suspected, I believe Russia should) or if only a few, say, ~6, remain east, I will atack. Starting with Soviet Far East, Siberia and Sakha and then further westwards. Activating Mongolia once reinforcement have arrived to kill them too (next turn).
Around turn 4, no matter if all the Siberians are facing me or not, there will be an attack and the Siberians Hunters are either destroyed or become the Hunted (i.e. they flee).
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One interesting tactic I have seen is for Japan to invade Soviet Far East, Siberia and Sakha. They can do this without activating the Mongolians for Russia because none of those territories border Mongolia.
If you do this and leave either Manchuria, Korea or both somewhat lightly defended –- you can’t just leave them totally empty or Russia will figure out what you are doing. A few troops have to die for the greater good. — it may very well tempt Russia to attack either one or both of those territories.
Once Russia attacks, the Mongolians will NOT join Russia and will stay strict neutral the rest of the game (unless directly attacked of course). That can keep an extra 6 infantry out of Soviet hands and most likely Japan will have plenty enough to transport over and take Korea and/or Manchuria right back from the Russians, destroying their eastern force in the process and probably opening the way for a nice Japanese romp all through northern Russia. Put a few Japanese tanks and mechs up there and blitz away. In 3-4 more rounds, Japan can deny 8-10 IPCs from the Soviet income. That’s less Soviet units to try and come back on Japan. That’s less Soviet units defending Moscow against your buddy Germany.
Of course, this strategy doesn’t bode well for Japan’s interests in China, against India or the DEI. Then again, if this makes it easier for Germany to take Moscow, it may end up in an overall Axis victory. Also, if the US decides to go heavy Europe trying to help Russia, Japan may be able to go nuts throughout the Pacific and Asia, even if a few rounds late.I use this strategy as well.
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I agree with knp, though I think I’d use less units against Russia. Attacking Russia doesn’t need to be at the cost of progress in China & India.
My basic stance towards Russia is: if all the Siberians stay to face me and position well (i.e. not in Amur where I can instantly destroy them), I don’t attack J1-J3. If Germany is going to launch Barbarossa, Russia is in for a shock in Europe without these Siberians over there. If Germany is launching Sea Lion, too bad for Japan but the Siberians are here to stay…On the other hand, if all the Siberians retreat towards Moscow (and if barbarossa is suspected, I believe Russia should) or if only a few, say, ~6, remain east, I will atack. Starting with Soviet Far East, Siberia and Sakha and then further westwards. Activating Mongolia once reinforcement have arrived to kill them too (next turn).
Around turn 4, no matter if all the Siberians are facing me or not, there will be an attack and the Siberians Hunters are either destroyed or become the Hunted (i.e. they flee).
Agreed.
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@wittmann:
I do not think it matters. Just because you DOW, doesn’t mean you have to invade.
Many Russians will DOW first, as they can then move into Western China with Mech units to help out.
If the Russian players moves all 18 INf into Amur and has not DOW you first, I think you have to do so and ATTACK!The bigger reason for Russia to DOW Japan on Turn 1 is so if Japan DOW’s the Allies, Allied units can move into Russia in the East.
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