13P G40 MagicQ (Axis) vs JDOW (Allies +12) dice nt

[JDOW]

Hi MagicQ,

I appreciate you made an unbiased summary of the thread which I followed, too.

My opinion is:

• I would not like to make any changes on the current map (with one exception) as I played 100% according to the rules which are not ambiguous in my opinion and I not want to take any disadvantages for the legal achievements of my strategy so far - you have my word I would do it the same way if I were Axis in that spot. It was certainly part of my strategy to use subs this way and this influenced my e.g. Anzac buys.

• On the other hand I understand the emotion of being confronted with a negative surprise and the disappointment if being ruled against oneself and I do not want my opponent to be annoyed and risking an unfriendly game though
  My conclusion is:

• We both agree to not exploit that loop hole anymore for the rest of our game by NOT moving subs into seazones containing destroyers in Non combat move phase. I think the real loophole is NOT the combat move rules but the fact the subs are allowed to be moved into seazones containing enemy destroyers in non combat movement. So subs could still be deployed in such seazones if possible

• I will edit my US sub off sz6 and put it to Hawaii and I do Anzac with the latest map + that edit.

Hope you are happy to game on that way and that we continue to having a great game.

Best regards,
Tobias

[MagicQ]

Hi JDOW

Thank you for your understanding. I do prefer the rest of our game without having that loophole involved. But the noncombat movement of moving sub into sz with enemy’s destroyer is indeed legal. We shouldn’t change that part.    All we need to know is that next round enemy could kill that sub and move other fleets in the same time.

[MagicQ]

You have found the root of the problem but gone a bit too far I am afraid.  The official ruler has explained this somewhere in the forum. A sub can enter but not go through the sz with enemy’s dd.  This is quite clear. I don’t propose to change that. Combining this rule with convoy rule makes USA more competitive in Pacific theater than any other version. Remember that in AA50 (not sure whether you’ve played it or not), even if USA go all Pacific, they still can not challenge Japan.

[JDOW]

ok, fine for me to play it that way from now on. However without the loophole moving subs into hostile sz will usually not be an option anyway:)

I still distinguish moving subs into such seazones and deploy them there. I somehow think that deploying units is something special and I would even prefer of that loophole being enabled in that situation. But the chance that this will play a role is small anyway, so fine for me to waive it here. I will need to think what I will “vote” for in case my opponent doesn’t bother.

But fine to me to allow enemies fleet to leave the sz during combat move phase.

Game on:)

[MagicQ]

Great, game on.

[MagicQ]

Still an option. 1 sub for 1 dd, 2 ipc gain when use it properly

[JDOW]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.8

Game History

Round: 4

Purchase Units - ANZAC
            ANZAC buy 1 destroyer and 1 transport; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Combat Move - ANZAC
            1 infantry moved from Egypt to Alexandria
                  British take Alexandria from Italians

Combat - ANZAC
            ANZAC creates battle in territory 42 Sea Zone

Non Combat Move - ANZAC
            1 submarine moved from 42 Sea Zone to 54 Sea Zone
            1 infantry moved from South Australia to New South Wales
            1 submarine moved from 62 Sea Zone to 54 Sea Zone
            2 infantry moved from India to Burma
            2 fighters moved from India to Eastern Persia

Place Units - ANZAC
            1 destroyer and 1 transport placed in 62 Sea Zone

Turn Complete - ANZAC
            ANZAC collect 10 PUs; end with 10 PUs total

[JDOW]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.8

Game History

Round: 4

Combat Move - French

Non Combat Move - French
            1 infantry moved from Egypt to Alexandria
            1 infantry moved from Anglo Egyptian Sudan to Egypt
            1 destroyer moved from 80 Sea Zone to 39 Sea Zone
            1 infantry moved from 110 Sea Zone to Normandy Bordeaux
            1 infantry moved from United Kingdom to 110 Sea Zone

Turn Complete - French

[JDOW]

@MagicQ:

Still an option. 1 sub for 1 dd, 2 ipc gain when use it properly

Sorry, I am afraid I didn’t understand, what did you mean by that?

[JDOW]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.8

Game History

Round: 4

Combat Move - French

Non Combat Move - French
            1 infantry moved from Egypt to Alexandria
            1 infantry moved from Anglo Egyptian Sudan to Egypt
            1 destroyer moved from 80 Sea Zone to 39 Sea Zone
            1 infantry moved from 110 Sea Zone to Normandy Bordeaux
            1 infantry moved from United Kingdom to 110 Sea Zone

Turn Complete - French
            Turning on Edit Mode
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Americans from 6 Sea Zone: 1 submarine
            EDIT: Adding units owned by Americans to 26 Sea Zone: 1 submarine
            EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode

[MagicQ]

The Frenchman in SZ110, may I ask which boat are you in?

[MagicQ]

@JDOW:

@MagicQ:

Still an option. 1 sub for 1 dd, 2 ipc gain when use it properly

Sorry, I am afraid I didn’t understand, what did you mean by that?

To kill your sub, I need to send a dd, then you will kill my dd. You earn 2 IPC.

[JDOW]

@MagicQ:

The Frenchman in SZ110, may I ask which boat are you in?

Sorry, I should have mentioned that proactively, both, AA and French inf are on the US transport.

[JDOW]

@MagicQ:

@JDOW:

@MagicQ:

Still an option. 1 sub for 1 dd, 2 ipc gain when use it properly

Sorry, I am afraid I didn’t understand, what did you mean by that?

To kill your sub, I need to send a dd, then you will kill my dd. You earn 2 IPC.

Unless you don’t stack the seazone plus the DD kills 1/3 boats while the sub kills 1/6 - 0 boats (they could be killed by sneak attack) :)

[MagicQ]

TripleA Move Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.8

Game History

Round: 5

Research Technology - Germans

Purchase Units - Germans
            Germans buy 1 armour, 4 artilleries, 2 infantry and 8 mech_infantrys; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Combat Move - Germans
            1 artillery and 3 infantry moved from France to Normandy Bordeaux
            1 infantry moved from Belarus to Archangel
            1 mech_infantry moved from Novgorod to Archangel
            1 armour moved from Belarus to Archangel
            1 mech_infantry moved from Eastern Poland to Ukraine
            1 mech_infantry moved from Belarus to Rostov
                  Germans take Rostov from Russians
            1 mech_infantry moved from Eastern Poland to Ukraine
            1 armour moved from Eastern Poland to Ukraine
            1 bomber moved from Finland to Archangel
            1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Belarus to Ukraine

[MagicQ]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.8

Game History

Round: 5

Research Technology - Germans

Purchase Units - Germans
            Germans buy 1 armour, 4 artilleries, 2 infantry and 8 mech_infantrys; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Combat Move - Germans
            1 artillery and 3 infantry moved from France to Normandy Bordeaux
            1 infantry moved from Belarus to Archangel
            1 mech_infantry moved from Novgorod to Archangel
            1 armour moved from Belarus to Archangel
            1 mech_infantry moved from Eastern Poland to Ukraine
            1 mech_infantry moved from Belarus to Rostov
                  Germans take Rostov from Russians
            1 mech_infantry moved from Eastern Poland to Ukraine
            1 armour moved from Eastern Poland to Ukraine
            1 bomber moved from Finland to Archangel
            1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Belarus to Ukraine

Combat - Germans
            Battle in Archangel
                Germans attack with 1 armour, 1 bomber, 1 infantry and 1 mech_infantry
                Russians defend with 1 infantry
                Germans win, taking Archangel from Russians with 1 armour, 1 bomber, 1 infantry and 1 mech_infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
                Casualties for Russians: 1 infantry
            Battle in Ukraine
                Germans attack with 1 armour, 1 fighter, 2 mech_infantrys and 1 tactical_bomber
                Russians defend with 1 factory_minor and 1 infantry
                Germans win, taking Ukraine from Russians with 1 armour, 1 fighter, 2 mech_infantrys and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
                Casualties for Russians: 1 infantry
            Battle in Normandy Bordeaux
                Germans attack with 1 artillery and 3 infantry
                French defend with 1 infantry; British defend with 1 aaGun; Americans defend with 1 factory_minor, 1 harbour and 1 infantry
                Germans win, taking Normandy Bordeaux from Americans with 1 artillery and 2 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 8
                Casualties for Germans: 1 infantry
                Casualties for French: 1 infantry
                Casualties for British: 1 aaGun
                Casualties for Americans: 1 infantry

Non Combat Move - Germans
            1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from Northern Italy to France
            1 aaGun moved from France to Western Germany
            1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Ukraine to Smolensk
            1 bomber moved from Archangel to Novgorod
            2 infantry moved from Karelia to Novgorod
            2 artilleries and 2 infantry moved from Baltic States to Belarus
            1 armour and 6 mech_infantrys moved from Eastern Poland to Smolensk
            1 aaGun moved from Belarus to Bryansk
            1 aaGun, 8 armour, 5 artilleries, 20 infantry and 7 mech_infantrys moved from Belarus to Smolensk
            1 artillery and 4 infantry moved from Romania to Bessarabia
            1 mech_infantry moved from Poland to Western Ukraine
            2 mech_infantrys moved from Poland to Belarus
            4 artilleries and 2 infantry moved from Eastern Poland to Belarus
            1 fighter moved from Southern Italy to Western Germany
            4 mech_infantrys moved from Germany to Eastern Poland
            1 aaGun moved from France to Normandy Bordeaux
            1 mech_infantry moved from Western Germany to Northern Italy

Place Units - Germans
            3 artilleries placed in Novgorod
            1 artillery and 2 infantry placed in France
            1 armour and 1 mech_infantry placed in Western Germany
            7 mech_infantrys placed in Germany

Turn Complete - Germans
            Total Cost from Convoy Blockades: 2
                Rolling for Convoy Blockade Damage in 125 Sea Zone. Rolls: 2,4
                Rolling for Convoy Blockade Damage in 105 Sea Zone. Rolls: 4,5
            Germans collect 50 PUs (2 lost to blockades); end with 50 PUs total
            Trigger Germans 5 Swedish Iron Ore: Germans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 55 PUs
            Objective Germans 2 Control Novgorod Or Volgograd Or Russia: Germans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 60 PUs

[JDOW]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.8

Game History

Round: 5

Purchase Units - Russians
            Russians buy 1 artillery, 4 infantry and 3 mech_infantrys; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Combat Move - Russians
            4 infantry moved from Manchuria to Korea
            2 infantry moved from Tambov to Rostov
            1 fighter moved from Russia to Rostov
            1 tactical_bomber moved from Russia to Rostov
            1 fighter moved from Russia to Rostov

Combat - Russians
            Battle in Korea
                Russians attack with 4 infantry
                Japanese defend with 2 infantry
                Japanese win with 1 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is -9
                Casualties for Japanese: 1 infantry
                Casualties for Russians: 4 infantry
            Battle in Rostov
                Russians attack with 2 fighters, 2 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber
                Germans defend with 1 mech_infantry
                Russians win, taking Rostov from Germans with 2 fighters, 1 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 1
                Casualties for Germans: 1 mech_infantry
                Casualties for Russians: 1 infantry

Non Combat Move - Russians
            2 fighters moved from Rostov to Russia
            1 tactical_bomber moved from Rostov to Russia
            2 aaGuns moved from Manchuria to Amur
            5 infantry moved from Manchuria to Amur
            2 infantry moved from Siberia to Amur
            4 infantry moved from Novosibirsk to Samara
            1 aaGun moved from Tambov to Samara
            1 infantry moved from Novosibirsk to Vologda
            2 armour moved from Tambov to Russia
            1 artillery moved from Tambov to Volgograd
            2 armour moved from Tambov to Volgograd
            2 mech_infantrys moved from Tambov to Russia
            5 artilleries moved from Tambov to Russia
            1 infantry moved from Tambov to Volgograd
            7 infantry moved from Tambov to Russia
            1 cruiser moved from 114 Sea Zone to 113 Sea Zone
            4 mech_infantrys moved from Tambov to Volgograd
            1 mech_infantry moved from Tambov to Russia

Place Units - Russians
            1 artillery, 4 infantry and 3 mech_infantrys placed in Russia

Turn Complete - Russians
            Russians collect 23 PUs; end with 23 PUs total

[MagicQ]

TripleA Move Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.8

Game History

Round: 5

Purchase Units - Japanese
            Japanese buy 2 artilleries, 2 destroyers, 1 fighter, 5 infantry and 3 mech_infantrys; Remaining resources: 6 SuicideAttackTokens; 0 PUs;

Combat Move - Japanese
            1 infantry moved from Korea to Manchuria
            1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Japan to Manchuria
            1 bomber moved from Japan to 26 Sea Zone
            2 infantry moved from Japan to 6 Sea Zone
            2 infantry and 1 transport moved from 6 Sea Zone to 2 Sea Zone
            2 infantry moved from 2 Sea Zone to Alaska
            1 armour moved from Szechwan to Sikang
                  Japanese take Sikang from Chinese
            1 armour moved from Sikang to Szechwan
            1 destroyer moved from 45 Sea Zone to 55 Sea Zone
            1 infantry moved from Dutch New Guinea to New Guinea
                  Japanese take New Guinea from ANZAC
            1 fighter moved from Caroline Islands to 55 Sea Zone
            1 tactical_bomber moved from 45 Sea Zone to 55 Sea Zone
            1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from 45 Sea Zone to 55 Sea Zone

[MagicQ]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.8

Game History

Round: 5

Purchase Units - Japanese
            Japanese buy 2 artilleries, 2 destroyers, 1 fighter, 5 infantry and 3 mech_infantrys; Remaining resources: 6 SuicideAttackTokens; 0 PUs;

Combat Move - Japanese
            1 infantry moved from Korea to Manchuria
            1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Japan to Manchuria
            1 bomber moved from Japan to 26 Sea Zone
            2 infantry moved from Japan to 6 Sea Zone
            2 infantry and 1 transport moved from 6 Sea Zone to 2 Sea Zone
            2 infantry moved from 2 Sea Zone to Alaska
            1 armour moved from Szechwan to Sikang
                  Japanese take Sikang from Chinese
            1 armour moved from Sikang to Szechwan
            1 destroyer moved from 45 Sea Zone to 55 Sea Zone
            1 infantry moved from Dutch New Guinea to New Guinea
                  Japanese take New Guinea from ANZAC
            1 fighter moved from Caroline Islands to 55 Sea Zone
            1 tactical_bomber moved from 45 Sea Zone to 55 Sea Zone
            1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from 45 Sea Zone to 55 Sea Zone

Combat - Japanese
            Battle in 26 Sea Zone
                Japanese attack with 1 bomber
                Americans defend with 3 submarines and 1 transport
                3 submarines owned by the Americans Submerged
                Japanese win with 1 bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 7
                Casualties for Americans: 1 transport
            Battle in Manchuria
                Japanese attack with 1 fighter, 1 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber
                Russians defend with 1 infantry
                Japanese win with 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 0
                Casualties for Japanese: 1 infantry
                Casualties for Russians: 1 infantry
            Battle in Alaska
            Battle in 55 Sea Zone
                Japanese attack with 1 destroyer, 2 fighters and 2 tactical_bombers
                Americans defend with 1 submarine
                Japanese win, taking Alaska from Americans with 1 destroyer, 2 fighters and 2 tactical_bombers remaining. Battle score for attacker is 6
                Casualties for Americans: 1 submarine

Non Combat Move - Japanese
            1 artillery moved from Dutch New Guinea to 45 Sea Zone
            1 mech_infantry moved from Yunnan to French Indo China
            2 infantry moved from Kwangsi to Yunnan
            1 bomber moved from Shan State to Philippines
            1 bomber moved from 26 Sea Zone to Marshall Islands
            2 fighters and 2 tactical_bombers moved from Anhwe to Yunnan
            1 aaGun, 4 artilleries and 8 infantry moved from Szechwan to Yunnan
            1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Manchuria to Korea
            1 artillery and 3 infantry moved from Japan to 6 Sea Zone
            1 artillery and 3 infantry moved from 6 Sea Zone to Korea
            3 infantry moved from Suiyuyan to Hopei
            1 infantry moved from Anhwe to Hunan
            1 fighter moved from 45 Sea Zone to French Indo China
            1 tactical_bomber moved from Shan State to French Indo China
            1 artillery and 3 infantry moved from Shan State to Yunnan
            1 submarine moved from 6 Sea Zone to 35 Sea Zone
            1 submarine moved from 20 Sea Zone to 35 Sea Zone
            1 destroyer moved from 6 Sea Zone to 35 Sea Zone
            2 fighters and 2 tactical_bombers moved from 55 Sea Zone to 35 Sea Zone
            1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from 45 Sea Zone to Yunnan
            1 fighter moved from Yunnan to French Indo China
            2 artilleries, 2 battleships, 3 carriers, 1 cruiser, 1 destroyer, 1 infantry, 4 submarines and 3 transports moved from 45 Sea Zone to 35 Sea Zone
            2 artilleries and 1 infantry moved from 35 Sea Zone to Philippines
            2 tactical_bombers moved from 35 Sea Zone to Philippines
            1 fighter moved from 35 Sea Zone to Philippines
            3 infantry moved from Kiangsu to Kiangsi

Place Units - Japanese
            2 destroyers placed in 6 Sea Zone
            1 fighter and 4 infantry placed in Japan
            2 artilleries and 1 infantry placed in French Indo China
            3 mech_infantrys placed in Kiangsu

Turn Complete - Japanese
            Japanese collect 62 PUs; end with 62 PUs total
            Objective Japanese 4 Control Dutch East Indies: Japanese met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 67 PUs

[MagicQ]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.8

Game History

Round: 5

Purchase Units - Japanese
            Japanese buy 2 artilleries, 2 destroyers, 1 fighter, 5 infantry and 3 mech_infantrys; Remaining resources: 6 SuicideAttackTokens; 0 PUs;

Combat Move - Japanese
            1 infantry moved from Korea to Manchuria
            1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Japan to Manchuria
            1 bomber moved from Japan to 26 Sea Zone
            2 infantry moved from Japan to 6 Sea Zone
            2 infantry and 1 transport moved from 6 Sea Zone to 2 Sea Zone
            2 infantry moved from 2 Sea Zone to Alaska
            1 armour moved from Szechwan to Sikang
                  Japanese take Sikang from Chinese
            1 armour moved from Sikang to Szechwan
            1 destroyer moved from 45 Sea Zone to 55 Sea Zone
            1 infantry moved from Dutch New Guinea to New Guinea
                  Japanese take New Guinea from ANZAC
            1 fighter moved from Caroline Islands to 55 Sea Zone
            1 tactical_bomber moved from 45 Sea Zone to 55 Sea Zone
            1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from 45 Sea Zone to 55 Sea Zone

Combat - Japanese
            Battle in 26 Sea Zone
                Japanese attack with 1 bomber
                Americans defend with 3 submarines and 1 transport
                3 submarines owned by the Americans Submerged
                Japanese win with 1 bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 7
                Casualties for Americans: 1 transport
            Battle in Manchuria
                Japanese attack with 1 fighter, 1 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber
                Russians defend with 1 infantry
                Japanese win with 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 0
                Casualties for Japanese: 1 infantry
                Casualties for Russians: 1 infantry
            Battle in Alaska
            Battle in 55 Sea Zone
                Japanese attack with 1 destroyer, 2 fighters and 2 tactical_bombers
                Americans defend with 1 submarine
                Japanese win, taking Alaska from Americans with 1 destroyer, 2 fighters and 2 tactical_bombers remaining. Battle score for attacker is 6
                Casualties for Americans: 1 submarine

Non Combat Move - Japanese
            1 artillery moved from Dutch New Guinea to 45 Sea Zone
            1 mech_infantry moved from Yunnan to French Indo China
            2 infantry moved from Kwangsi to Yunnan
            1 bomber moved from Shan State to Philippines
            1 bomber moved from 26 Sea Zone to Marshall Islands
            2 fighters and 2 tactical_bombers moved from Anhwe to Yunnan
            1 aaGun, 4 artilleries and 8 infantry moved from Szechwan to Yunnan
            1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Manchuria to Korea
            1 artillery and 3 infantry moved from Japan to 6 Sea Zone
            1 artillery and 3 infantry moved from 6 Sea Zone to Korea
            3 infantry moved from Suiyuyan to Hopei
            1 infantry moved from Anhwe to Hunan
            1 fighter moved from 45 Sea Zone to French Indo China
            1 tactical_bomber moved from Shan State to French Indo China
            1 artillery and 3 infantry moved from Shan State to Yunnan
            1 submarine moved from 6 Sea Zone to 35 Sea Zone
            1 submarine moved from 20 Sea Zone to 35 Sea Zone
            1 destroyer moved from 6 Sea Zone to 35 Sea Zone
            2 fighters and 2 tactical_bombers moved from 55 Sea Zone to 35 Sea Zone
            1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from 45 Sea Zone to Yunnan
            1 fighter moved from Yunnan to French Indo China
            2 artilleries, 2 battleships, 3 carriers, 1 cruiser, 1 destroyer, 1 infantry, 4 submarines and 3 transports moved from 45 Sea Zone to 35 Sea Zone
            2 artilleries and 1 infantry moved from 35 Sea Zone to Philippines
            2 tactical_bombers moved from 35 Sea Zone to Philippines
            1 fighter moved from 35 Sea Zone to Philippines
            3 infantry moved from Kiangsu to Kiangsi

Place Units - Japanese
            2 destroyers placed in 6 Sea Zone
            1 fighter and 4 infantry placed in Japan
            2 artilleries and 1 infantry placed in French Indo China
            3 mech_infantrys placed in Kiangsu

Turn Complete - Japanese
            Japanese collect 62 PUs; end with 62 PUs total
            Objective Japanese 4 Control Dutch East Indies: Japanese met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 67 PUs
            Turning on Edit Mode
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Japanese from Hopei: 3 infantry
            EDIT: Adding units owned by Japanese to Chahar: 3 infantry
            EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode