G40L Infrastructure vs Boldfresh(Allies+12)

[Major Major]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.9

Game History

Round: 12

Research Technology - Germans

Purchase Units - Germans
            Germans repair 2 damage on 1 airfield; Remaining resources: 95 PUs;
            Germans buy 1 aaGun, 2 artilleries, 2 factory_minors, 2 fighters, 10 infantry and 2 mech_infantrys; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Combat Move - Germans
            1 mech_infantry moved from Volgograd to Turkey
                  Germans take Turkey from British
            1 mech_infantry moved from Persia to Trans-Jordan
                  Germans take Trans-Jordan from British
            4 bombers moved from Bryansk to West India
            1 bomber moved from Eastern Persia to West India
            2 infantry moved from Eastern Persia to West India
            1 fighter moved from Eastern Persia to West India
            1 mech_infantry moved from Bryansk to Samara
            2 fighters and 2 tactical_bombers moved from Bryansk to Samara
            1 bomber moved from Southern Italy to Egypt

Combat - Germans
            Strategic bombing raid in Egypt
                    AA fire in Egypt :  0/1 hits
                Bombing raid in Egypt rolls: 3 and causes: 3 damage to unit: factory_minor
                Bombing raid in Egypt causes 3 damage total.
            Battle in West India
                Germans attack with 5 bombers, 1 fighter and 2 infantry
                British defend with 1 artillery and 2 infantry
                    Germans roll dice for 5 bombers, 1 fighter and 2 infantry in West India, round 2 :  6/8 hits
                    UK_Pacific roll dice for 1 artillery and 2 infantry in West India, round 2 :  2/3 hits
                    2 infantry owned by the British, 2 infantry owned by the Germans and 1 artillery owned by the British lost in West India
                Germans win with 5 bombers and 1 fighter remaining. Battle score for attacker is 4
                Casualties for Germans: 2 infantry
                Casualties for British: 1 artillery and 2 infantry
            Battle in Samara
                Germans attack with 2 fighters, 1 mech_infantry and 2 tactical_bombers
                Russians defend with 1 infantry
                    Germans roll dice for 2 fighters, 1 mech_infantry and 2 tactical_bombers in Samara, round 2 :  4/5 hits
                    Russians roll dice for 1 infantry in Samara, round 2 :  1/1 hits
                    1 infantry owned by the Russians and 1 mech_infantry owned by the Germans lost in Samara
                Germans win with 2 fighters and 2 tactical_bombers remaining. Battle score for attacker is -1
                Casualties for Germans: 1 mech_infantry
                Casualties for Russians: 1 infantry

Non Combat Move - Germans
            1 mech_infantry moved from Persia to Eastern Persia
            1 armour moved from Persia to Saudi Arabia
                  Germans take Saudi Arabia from Neutral_True
            1 armour moved from Persia to Eastern Persia
            1 fighter moved from West India to Eastern Persia
            1 bomber moved from West India to Bryansk
            4 bombers moved from West India to Eastern Persia
            1 armour moved from Persia to Eastern Persia
            1 bomber moved from Egypt to Persia
            2 fighters and 2 tactical_bombers moved from Samara to Bryansk
            1 fighter moved from Bryansk to Smolensk
            2 fighters moved from Bryansk to Persia
            5 mech_infantrys moved from Bessarabia to Bryansk
            2 mech_infantrys moved from Eastern Poland to Bryansk
            1 aaGun, 1 artillery and 2 infantry moved from Belarus to Bryansk
            1 aaGun moved from Bryansk to Rostov
            1 fighter moved from Smolensk to Bryansk
            3 mech_infantrys moved from Novgorod to Bryansk
            1 aaGun and 2 infantry moved from Normandy Bordeaux to Spain
            3 infantry moved from Portugal to Spain
            1 infantry moved from Yugoslavia to Albania
            3 fighters moved from Western Germany to Spain
            2 infantry moved from Northern Italy to Yugoslavia
            1 aaGun moved from Northern Italy to Yugoslavia
            5 infantry moved from Northern Italy to Southern France
            1 submarine moved from 92 Sea Zone to 98 Sea Zone
            4 submarines moved from 112 Sea Zone to 113 Sea Zone
            1 submarine moved from 119 Sea Zone to 112 Sea Zone
            2 infantry moved from Norway to Finland

Place Units - Germans
            1 factory_minor placed in Persia
            1 factory_minor placed in Spain
            1 aaGun and 2 mech_infantrys placed in Volgograd
            Germans undo move 3.
            1 infantry and 2 mech_infantrys placed in Volgograd
            1 artillery and 2 infantry placed in Novgorod
            1 aaGun, 1 artillery, 2 fighters and 6 infantry placed in Western Germany
            Turning on Edit Mode
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Germans from Spain: 1 fighter
            EDIT: Adding units owned by Germans to Western Germany: 1 fighter
            EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
            1 infantry placed in France

Turn Complete - Germans
            Total Cost from Convoy Blockades: 1
                Rolling for Convoy Blockade Damage in 97 Sea Zone. Rolls: 4,4,5,1
            Germans collect 72 PUs (1 lost to blockades); end with 72 PUs total
            Trigger Germans 5 Swedish Iron Ore: Germans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 77 PUs
            Objective Germans 6 Control Iraq Or Persia Or Northwest Persia: Germans met a national objective for an additional 6 PUs; end with 83 PUs
            Objective Germans 3 Control Caucasus: Germans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 88 PUs
            Objective Germans 2 Control Novgorod Or Volgograd Or Russia: Germans met a national objective for an additional 10 PUs; end with 98 PUs
            Turning on Edit Mode
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Germans from France: 1 infantry
            EDIT: Adding units owned by Germans to Germany: 1 infantry
            EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
            Turning on Edit Mode
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Germans from Southern France: 5 infantry
            EDIT: Adding units owned by Germans to Germany: 4 infantry
            EDIT: Adding units owned by Germans to Yugoslavia: 1 infantry
            EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
            Turning on Edit Mode
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Germans from Yugoslavia: 1 infantry
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Germans from Germany: 4 infantry
            EDIT: Adding units owned by Germans to Northern Italy: 5 infantry
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Germans from Germany: 1 infantry
            EDIT: Adding units owned by Germans to France: 1 infantry
            EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode

[Major Major]

for the record.  I assure you that the convoy rolls had no effect on my edit.  ANd I ask that you allow the edit as I allowed you to do over 4 times this game.

[Major Major]

please allow edit from my german posting done on may4th.

[boldfresh]

Request politely declined.

[boldfresh]

Any edits allowed by either one of us in this game do not amount to a hill of beans when compared to this one.  Once again, just because we may have both allowed various edits to occur throughout the course of this game does not mean every edit will be allowed.  When an edit is requested after noncom phase is clearly over are at the discretion of the player to allow in every case unless there was a clearly defined agreement - which in our case there was not.

[boldfresh]

You know, if it was any player but you I would allow the edit.  However, you have zero good will stored up with me - perhaps you can imagine why.  I can think of at least 3 or 4 times that you have been rude and/or talking crap about me in other threads.  Mainly I am not interested in letting you off the hook here because I am 100% certain you would not let me off the hook if the roles were reversed.

You were winning this game overwhelmingly.  I set a trap, and to do so, I gave up a lot of other things I could have been doing.  However, I determined that the best chance to beat you was to set up for this particular move.  You fell into the trap by leaving Berlin undefended during noncombat, then you did not place any units in Berlin during your build.  Then you rolled convoy dice and collected income.  The convoy dice may not have affected your decision to add units to Berlin, but the fact of the matter is, this is a phase based game per the rulebook and you left the noncombat phase then tried to come back to it.  And when you did, you made the edit without mentioning it - I have strong reason to believe it was in an attempt to be undetected, which it nearly was.

It is my right to deny your noncombat edit request and I have chosen to do so.  I got sloppy in this game and you capitalized - just one example - you killed a large fleet left in z98 with no losses.  I proceeded knowing that I then had to catch you in a moment of sloppiness and when that moment has now occurred, you are asking that I concede the game to you by allowing you to re-enter a phase of your turn that you clearly left.

Now, you still have a chance (small I grant you - but I have had similar failures) of holding Berlin.  In addition, once you retake Berlin, you still have a strong opportunity to make this a game because of how large your advantage was prior to this mistake.

Once again, I request that you revise the map to where it was when you entered the collect income phase so the match can continue.  If you hold Berlin then you can win fair and square.  If Berlin falls, they you still have a good chance of winning fair and square.  This game has all the makings of a classic.  You saw my chance to take Berlin, but you just saw it too late.  That’s the way these games work - there is a point when by the rulebook you cannot go back without the agreement of your opponent and you moved past that point.

Cheers

[boldfresh]

That first statement isn’t quite accurate… let’s just say I would be much more likely to allow the edit and there are certain players that would get it without question.  It would depend on how the players handle the situation of course.  You are doing a little better now than when you started and I think you are certainly doing better than how you reacted to arathorn.  But now it’s time to take it full circle by preceding after your opponent declines to accept your edit… without a huge upset.

Cheers

[Jennifer]

It is both a blessing and a boon that TripleA records edits.  Back in the days of Battlemap, if you placed your builds and noticed something, you could make the change and edit your NCM post before posting it.  That alone would have solved this issue.  Then again, the TripleA record helps to prevent cheating.

Here’s my dilemma.  For years players have reviewed their actions before posting their final round.  I would say in almost every case that was after they had placed their new units which is when you have the best opportunity to notice under-defended points or points of exploitation.  However, the rules do stipulate that you post your NCM then, when you are done, you move on to placing new units. Â

Unfortunately, it is that second sentence that really clinches how the ruling has to go.  Per the rules located: http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=32284.0 under #4 the rules default to those as printed in the Axis and Allies Global 1940 Second Edition rule book.  Per Page 12 of the rule book, second column, Non-Combat Movements must be completed before Mobilize New Units. Â

Any actions after Mobilize New Units that were not related to collect income are void.

As for previous occurrences, unfortunately I cannot let them impact the ruling.  Players have the leeway to negotiate violations of the rules (to an extent) so as to make the game enjoyable for all parties concerned.  Previous allowed edits were legalized when players decided to continue the game.

[boldfresh]

Thank you for the ruling Cmdr Jennifer.

Infrastructure:  please verify that this is the correct map following the G12 noncombat and prior to the G12 build and collect income phases.

I will wait at least another day before continuing.

Cheers

[Major Major]

I would like to verify that I never asked for a ruling.

[boldfresh]

Correct - I asked because Jenn sometimes does not check in for several days to a week at at time and I wanted to get the ball rolling in case you objected to the referenced rule.

Please verify that I edited the map correctly and I can continue with R12.

Cheers

[boldfresh]

Infrastructure - I saw your post to Me1945.

"Hey,

Sorry for the long delay.  My job gets really crazy for the months of may and june and I dont want to rush any moves and mess up a good game.  I am working 60-80hrs a week and have a young family at home.  I hope you dont mind if things get a little sporadic for a awhile.  I will get to this by the weekend.

Thanks!"

I can relate as I have a very similar situation - work all day then work all night.  Unfortunately, with our busy schedules, we are often vulnerable to making errors in our games, exposing ourselves to major losses.  When it happens, we need to just take it in stride and realize it is a game we love to play but not the end of the world when we make a major error and lose.

As I said, I put this game on autopilot many turns ago thinking the allies had it won - you knuckled down and made major gains capitalizing on multiple errors I made.  The way I see this is “turnabout is fair play” in that I then knuckled down and caught you in an error.  On the whole, the match will be back to where it was a few rounds back when Berlin (hopefully) falls.  You will be far from out of it, but the allies will have the advantage once again if Berlin falls.

Cheers

[boldfresh]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.9

Game History

Round: 12

Purchase Units - Russians
            Russians repair 4 damage on 1 factory_major; Remaining resources: 22 PUs;
            Russians buy 1 armour, 4 infantry and 1 mech_infantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Combat Move - Russians
            1 infantry moved from Evenkiyskiy to Urals
                  Russians take Urals from Germans
            1 infantry moved from Timguska to Novosibirsk
                  Russians take Novosibirsk from Germans

Combat - Russians

Non Combat Move - Russians
            1 mech_infantry moved from Libya to Alexandria
            2 aaGuns and 9 infantry moved from Timguska to Novosibirsk
            1 submarine moved from 115 Sea Zone to 114 Sea Zone

Place Units - Russians
            1 armour, 4 infantry and 1 mech_infantry placed in Russia

Turn Complete - Russians
            Russians collect 10 PUs; end with 10 PUs total
            Objective Russians 2 Spread Of Communism: Russians met a national objective for an additional 9 PUs; end with 19 PUs

[Major Major]

@Boldfresh:

Infrastructure - I saw your post to Me1945.

"Hey,

Sorry for the long delay.  My job gets really crazy for the months of may and june and I dont want to rush any moves and mess up a good game.  I am working 60-80hrs a week and have a young family at home.  I hope you dont mind if things get a little sporadic for a awhile.  I will get to this by the weekend.

Thanks!"

I can relate as I have a very similar situation - work all day then work all night.  Unfortunately, with our busy schedules, we are often vulnerable to making errors in our games, exposing ourselves to major losses.  When it happens, we need to just take it in stride and realize it is a game we love to play but not the end of the world when we make a major error and lose.Â

As I said, I put this game on autopilot many turns ago thinking the allies had it won - you knuckled down and made major gains capitalizing on multiple errors I made.  The way I see this is “turnabout is fair play” in that I then knuckled down and caught you in an error.  On the whole, the match will be back to where it was a few rounds back when Berlin (hopefully) falls.  You will be far from out of it, but the allies will have the advantage once again if Berlin falls.

Cheers

You make me laugh.

Turn about is fair play is when someone repeatedly does an after dice edit and asks for it to be OK and then when his opponent does an edit the very same way and asks for it to be OK he says no.

Quite funny.
:-D

[boldfresh]

every edit is subject to approval. just because meaningless edits get approved by one side it does not mean that a game changing edit must be approved by the other.  read Jenn’s ruling and go ahead and make your japan move whenever you’re ready.

[boldfresh]

if nothing else, perhaps you will learn not to whine so much about early game dice.

[boldfresh]

@Infrastructure:

Turn about is fair play is when someone repeatedly does an after dice edit and asks for it to be OK and then when his opponent does an edit the very same way and asks for it to be OK he says no.

Quite funny.
:-D

Sorta reminds me of when you ripped into Arathorn (one of the most honorable players on the site) for being cheap then attacked India against bmnielson without so much as a thought of asking him if he meant to DOW with Japan or not.  Yes, quite funny.

[boldfresh]

Almost as funny as in back to back games giving up Tokyo and Berlin to the allies, right?

[boldfresh]

Courtesy notification:

On May 16th at 6pm I will claim this win under the 9 day league post rule if you have not posted J12 by that time.

Cheers

[boldfresh]

@Boldfresh:

Courtesy notification:

On May 16th at 6pm I will claim this win under the 9 day league post rule if you have not posted J12 by that time.

Cheers

Still waiting - you have not been online since i posted this.  Please give me some indication of when you plan to post.

Cheers