Thank you Wesley!! can you basically post everything from that site here so i can spend the night reading? BTW thank you Duke for coming back! You have been away too long!
What this idiot who wrote this paper misses when he advocates the 3 tranny build…
UK builds 1 AC of it’s own in UK1, and a TRN, and a couple of INF, lands 2 figs on it and drops it in SZ6. UK takes out the Atlantic sub, reducing the offensive puch of the German navy by 20%. UK Sails 1 BB and 1 TRN from SZ2 to SZ6, perhaps dropping an INF and taking a support shot at Norway just for fun.
Now UK has an AC, 2 FIGS, 1 BB, and 2 TRN in SZ6
HOW IN THE HELL are the Germans going to even get TO London with 1 Destroyer, 2 subs, 3-4 trannies?
They can;t get TO London, not without using their AF for the sea battle instead of to support the land invasion. And the trannies can’t attack UK’s navy. Waste 24 IPC’s in G1.
GAME OVER!
And don;t forget, there is a SECOND UK BB that is heading up from Gibraltar that will hit that German navy again on UK3…
@ncscswitch:
What this idiot who wrote this paper misses when he advocates the 3 tranny build…
WHOA! WHOA!
OH MY GOSH!
I WROTE THE PAPER, BUT I CAN’T BELIEVE I NEVER THOUGHT OF BUILDING A CARRIER WITH THE UK!
WHY DIDN’T I THINK OF THAT?
THAT’S SO FREAKING ORIGINAL AND BRILLIANT!
Thanks ncscswitch, this changes everything. I am going to go reexamine my life now. If only I had thought of that sweet counter.Â
U R, like, the BEST EVER!
Thanks for taking the time to set me straight.
LMFAO! lol :-D :-D :mrgreen:
Sarcasm aside…
How the hell are you getting through the UK Fleet in G2 without using your AF to do it it? And if you use your AF to do it, how are you going to have enough offensive power to beat 4 INF, 1 ART, 1 ARM, and 1 BOM?
ASSUMING your whole tranny fleet gets through, your best attack is 3 ARM and 3 INF
Attack Roll is 12 with 6 units.
Defense roll is 14 with 7 units.
Of course this also does not figure in that the Allied player will see these trannies, and perhaps send 2 USSR figs to UK to defend in either R1 OR R2. Or the additional US FIG and US Bomber that are almost guaranteed to be in UK on US1. Or even the 2 US land forces dropped in UK via Tranny in US1…
Now you have a Defense of 31 with 13 units
And that is enough to stop even your maximum AF and trannied forces usage of 3 INF, 3 ARM, 2 FIG and 1 BOM
Attack Value of 19 and 9 pieces.
You HAVE to have your AF available for the land battle to counter any of the “traditional” Allied openning moves. And you can’t get through the UK fleet without your AF.
The 3 tranny gambit fails, no matter how you slice it.
Or UK goes a bit more offensive and DOES attack that German Baltic fleet with their AF in UK (the surviving figs returning to the new AC being built in SZ6)
2 FIGS, 1 BOM
vs
2 SUBS, 3 TRN, 1 DST.
Round 1:
Attack kills 1.67 (average 2) units (subs sink)
Defense kills 1 (lose 1 fig)
UK retreats 1 FIG to AC and 1 BOM to UK
Germany now has lost 2 of their offensive units to punch through a UK fleet of 1 AC, 1 FIG, 1 BB, and 2 TRN.
All you have left is the Destroyer for offense (first hit wasted on BB while UK sinks your trannies)
Or with your figs for support, you wound my BB and kill 1-2 trannies on your attack while I take out 2 of your OFFENSIVE units (now figuring only 4 FIGS in support of navy, other 2 plus BOM used on UK mainland). So Germany loses the Destroyer and 1 fig.
Round 2:
You hit 1.5 UK units with 3 FIGS.
I defend for 1.83 units (avg 2 dead)
So I lose the carriier, you lose 2 more figs.
Round 3:
Your last fig has a 50/50 chance of hitting
I have a BB and a FIG between you and London.
Guess what?
My surviving unit, after killing your last offesnive piece, also sinks your invasion fleet.
And if you take losses on your invasion fleet to take out my Navy, you cannot break the defense of London, which is 1 FIG, 2 BOM, 3 INF, 1 ART, 1 ARM at a MINIMUM. That does not include any USSR forces, nor any US land forces. That is just the “usual” transfer of 1 fig and 1 BOM to UK in US1, plus the balance of the UK build after building 1 TRN and 1 AC.
You posted with sarcasm, I post in all seriousness…
Your strategy has some serious freakin holes… holes that will cause the German fleet to sink before it even reaches London.
@ncscswitch:
You posted with sarcasm, I post in all seriousness…
You post with belligerence, not with the respect of reasoned debate. You are clearly confident in your own opinion, so you don’t need mine. You have made over 700 posts while I have made fewer than 20; I’ll just assume that you’re an expert and leave it at that.
If you do decide you would like more information on my point of view, there are two other Caspian Sub papers specifically about the Baltic fleet and one that is partially about the Baltic Fleet (Canadian Shield). You know where to find them.
Peace
WAIT!! i need to understand your reasoning CrazyStraw and I am positive your participation here will help hundreds of people OTHER than him.This site is here to help others understand how to play better and many here dont want to join Yahoo anything. PLease dont let that braggard kill the information for the rest of us. If you would be so kind as to either post everything you guys came up with or email be the stuff, so i can reformat it to work in this forum. The eyes of many are upon your next move…
I don’t think people are looking at the 3 transport buy the same way the author does:
He’s not buying it because he plans on invading London. He does it for flexibility and to increase the suicide value of the fleet. The transports can invade London and can do a couple of other nasty land grabs if the Allies aren’t careful, but that is more of a bonus thing that you can catch a couple of newbies with or at least force a suboptimal build with the Allies.
If the UK does plop down a carrier and combines a massive fleet in SZ6 on UK 1, I’m pretty sure it’s an awesome trade for Germany: the Baltic fleet, normally worthless, is now being traded in for a massive amount of UK naval gear that could have been used to protect future landings or enhance their attacks: no more BB for bombardments/soak up hits, 2 fighters/carrier down, 1-2 transports down. That’s an insane amount of gear that the UK has to replace, and the Germans probably still have their entire airforce intact. I would gladly trade in 16-24 of Germany’s first turn IPCs to slow down the UK probably at least 2 turns if he were to try such an obvious tactic as block on turn 1; the UK isn’t looking at the big picture if he thinks it’s worth it to trade his navy for the German navy.
The UK has simply too little money and not enough starting forces to economically soundly block a link of the fleets if the Baltic has been reinforced with 2-3 transports.
If you kill all the Allied capital ships early you have now set the UK back about two rounds. They will need one round to rebuild transports and another round to build capital ships to protect the transports. So your most likely outcome is that you have spent 16-24 IPCs in the Baltic to set back the Allies for somewhere between one to two rounds. That is more than a worthwhile investment.
I quote this directly from the paper, and it makes a lot of sense.
You will be a little bit on the rough side with Russia for the first couple of turns, but this soon turns around since you can focus your full effort on him after spending a wad of money on turn 1 to slow the Allies down. Letting the Allies slide with safe and free shipping is not a good idea at all, and hastens Germany’s death. The purchase of 2-3 transports and linking the fleet gives the German navy a great edge in delaying the Allies. You can do the same with a carrier, but the carrier doesn’t carry the same amount of threat to the capital that the transports do.
One part of the paper that it hinges on is also the bid; it’s assumed you have something extra in Africa so you can take Egypt on the first turn without too much sweat.
Well, I’ll be brief here because I’ve been lengthy elsewhere.
1. Yahoo provides a lot of great content for no cost. They have been an excellent company the whole time I have used their services (about 10 years), so don’t let the registration hold you back. (Full disclosure: I own no Yahoo stock, but I really wish I did)
2. We have Beginner Strategy Guides at Caspian Sub. The guides for Germany and the UK both recommend buying carriers. Carriers are fine basic moves; they are easy to manage and fairly strong. But the transports are far more flexible, and 2tra are better than 1car on offense in a reasonably sized attack.
3. I don’t like building capital ships with the UK. I’d rather buy transports, ground troops, or planes. It is a much more effective use of the US/UK strengths to let the US drop the German boats. This is covered in Policy Paper 14: Baltic Part III.
4. If I was a German player, I would be salivating if the UK built a carrier in Z06 (see N. Witch’s earlier post). It’s about the worst move the Allies could do, short of abandoning London. That means I pound down 2 Allied capital ships, 2ftrs, and 2 UK transports without losing a grey plane. So if that is the ‘counter’ to a German invasion of London, then please counter me all day long.
5. If I was playing as the UK and for some reason I DID want a carrier, in almost no circumstance would I build it on the first round. It’s crummy on offense so you’re buying it to defend, not attack (and there is no real way for the US to leverage it as a landing spot on R1 in a way that is significant). It is much better to build your UK transports in Z02 on round 1 so that the Germans have to worry about a landing force. Then, if you need the carrier for extra defense, move the fleets to drop gear in Europe and build the carrier in the sea zone where your transports are. That’s much more efficient.
Peace
