• In my experience, Fortress Europe is the best way for the Axis to win in a no-bid game.  You do try to keep Africa as long as you can (you need the money).  Also, you need to be able to trade Ukraine back on forth (the $3 a turn is also needed).  At some point you will probably lose W. Europe, but can roll your tanks from E. Europe to re-take it (conceeding E. Europe for a turn, taking it back next turn with your tanks).

    The key with Japan is to start rolling for tech as soon as you are able to push 10 or so inf a turn into Asia.  I always hope to get IT or HB either of which might give Japan enough to take out Russia (as long as Germany is still alive).

    Of course the Axis still lose most of the time (at least when I play).  Japan might never get the techs needed, the Allies can also roll for tech, Germany might (and usually does) fall before Japan gets IT, or HB…  But this seems to be the best way to win in a standard game, AFAIK.


  • The best way for the Axis to win is for Germany to just trade border territories back and forth with the Russians forcing the Russians to lose tanks to german losses of infantry.  The Germans should go into Africa hard, initial one transport per turn starting turn 2 and then two transports a  turn.  The Germans should remove the entire British navy on turn one.  The Japanese should Pearl HArbor and build transports rather than mainland factory.  Germany has no problem making large gains in Africa.  Japan has no problem making large gains in Asia.  Germany uses the I.P. gained from Africa to invade Russia after Japan has weakened Russia.  It’s easy for each of the Axis powers to pick up 10-11 I.P.


  • Lol like you state it the Axis will win almost everygame… You surely never played a decent allies player… And again Rusland losing arms to germans inf is ridicilous… If you change territories you use inf and fig => No ARMS!!!


  • @Bashir:

    Lol like you state it the Axis will win almost everygame… You surely never played a decent allies player… And again Rusland losing arms to germans inf is ridicilous… If you change territories you use inf and fig => No ARMS!!!

    The Axis win about 45% of games.  I have played against excellent Allies players.  Not ridiculous.  Russia buying anything but tanks and infantry is ridiculous.  Russia is always under 20 I.P. by thrid turn.  12 for a fig instead of 4 infantry. Laughable.  If a Russian player buys figs, Germany can just roll over him.  Heck I might even buy an A.A. gun just for the fun of it and laugh when he loses four infantry every time one of his fighters gets shot down.


  • @limitedwhole:

    @Bashir:

    Lol like you state it the Axis will win almost everygame… You surely never played a decent allies player… And again Rusland losing arms to germans inf is ridicilous… If you change territories you use inf and fig => No ARMS!!!

    The Axis win about 45% of games. I have played against excellent Allies players. Not ridiculous. Russia buying anything but tanks and infantry is ridiculous. Russia is always under 20 I.P. by thrid turn. 12 for a fig instead of 4 infantry. Laughable. If a Russian player buys figs, Germany can just roll over him. Heck I might even buy an A.A. gun just for the fun of it and laugh when he loses four infantry every time one of his fighters gets shot down.

    OMG…

    1. playing only with RR the Axis doesn’t win more than 15% (absolute maximum!) of the games.
    2. Russia is just buying inf… maybe an arm or 2. You start with 2 fighters!!! I was refering to those! Exchange lands means taking it with minimal forces so say ger takes it with 3 inf… You can attack that with 5 inf anf 2 fig ans easily win without losing arms…

    You stated you have played against excellent allies players… Howcome the Axis still wins 45% of the games than with poor purchasing? (for instance buying 1 tran on J1 and buy more ships to go after the US…) That is laughable in my opinion…


  • Spending two turns to take an INF off an isoland is laughable in my opinion.  You obvisouly have never played against good axis players.  1 Transport for Japan is optimal on first turn.  The fact that you think using your entire income on TP on the first turn with Japan  so that you can go two turns out of your way to not waste a infantry or two lets me know why the “Axis only win 30% of games.”


  • I did play enough really good axis players and allies players… But you are just laughable… My tran will be away for 1 turn while your inf is still waiting to get transported so it takes 2 turns before your inf is in place… Like I said on J2 you will have 2 inf and a tank or 4 inf waitng to get transported… If you are still thinking 1 tran and 5 inf is optimal play I will stop arguing with you because it won’t help. 2 trannies and 3 inf is optimal… 3 trannies is a little bit of a gambit but can pay off huge.


  • @Bashir:

    I did play enough really good axis players and allies players… But you are just laughable… My tran will be away for 1 turn while your inf is still waiting to get transported so it takes 2 turns before your inf is in place… Like I said on J2 you will have 2 inf and a tank or 4 inf waitng to get transported… If you are still thinking 1 tran and 5 inf is optimal play I will stop arguing with you because it won’t help. 2 trannies and 3 inf is optimal… 3 trannies is a little bit of a gambit but can pay off huge.

    Okay….ahem.  I move a tranny form Carolina and use one form Japan to transport 4 inf on turn 1.  I purchasew 1 tranny.  I then move all the infantry I purchased on the immediately next turn.  How are my inf waiting aorund.  I’m sorry but you clealy haven’t even considered what I am saying.  They is no delay.  You have 2 TP to transport 2 INF from Philipines and 2 From Japan leaving 1 INF on Japan.  Add the five you bought.  You now have 3 TP to transport 6 inf on turn two.  So you get 10 inf to the mainland by turn 2?  Obviously you are misisng the point that instead of moving my transports off out the way to islands that I have all three transports at Japan.  Thats 6 inf.  Thats all the inf I have in Japan.  No waiting.  None.  No waiting.  10 inf by turn 2.  No waiting.  No delay.  10 inf by turn two.  No delay.  No waiting.  Am I clear here there is no waiting.  Set up the board and try it.

    Let me repeat it.  Move a transport from CArolinia picking up INF at Philipeans.  Move INf from Japan.  Place TP.  Place 5 INF to go with 1 INF that is sitting there.  On turn two move all 6 INF.  That’s 10 INF by turn two.  No waiting.  No delay.  I repeat there is no delay.  There are no infantry waiting to be shipped.  I didn’t waste my entire production and two turns to land INF.  I just landed the maximum amount possible over two turns.  Is that that hard to understand.


  • Is it too hard to understand for you that I will have 10 inf and a tank on Manchuria at J2? With an extra transport? Is that too hard to understand that 10 inf and a tank is more than just 10 inf?


  • And you bought more TP than you can use effetcively thereafter thus pigeonholing your self and losing maximal usage for turns 4-6.  Is that that hard ot understand?

    1. You concede that Japan takes most of Asia fi not all.
    2. You are shipping INF to Norway instead of Africa.

    How could the Axis not win.  Africa+Asia is more than enough I.P. to win.


  • Are you related to SHP?? because you are arguing the same way…


  • Limited;

    You seem to have much to learn.

    The best way for the Axis to win is for Germany to just trade border territories back and forth with the Russians forcing the Russians to lose tanks to german losses of infantry.  The Germans should go into Africa hard, initial one transport per turn starting turn 2 and then two transports a  turn.

    Trading border territories is common practice, usually done with Ukraine.  However Germany cannot afford buying this many transports and troops you are sending to Africa with them.  Two transports a turn is more expensive in ipc terms than what you gain from all of Africa.  You aren’t getting your moneys worth and therefore you should be losing every game with this strategy.

    1. You concede that Japan takes most of Asia fi not all.
    2. You are shipping INF to Norway instead of Africa.

    How could the Axis not win.  Africa+Asia is more than enough I.P. to win.

    The Allies only need one shipment of troops to Africa (1 turn) to drive out the germans.  All the other troop shipments each turn go towards Russia.  As the Allies I will have Germany out of Africa before Japan has Asia = no axis win.

    If Japan tries to take Africa, the Allies can easily counter because Africa is closer to the Allies than to Japan by transports.  It takes only one turn by the UK to put troops in Africa but several for Japan.= no axis win.  If you think you can do it with a factory in India, be my guest because I can simply use only two transports and match the India factory output while sending the rest to Russia.


  • OK, HAVE to chine in here…

    Japan HAS to build at least 2 trannies on J1.  NOT an option.  The balance of your buy is INF.

    In J2, you then buy ANOTHER tranny, and the balance INF.

    In J2, all of those extra trannies go and grab an INF each, 1 to Wake and back, 1 to Okinawa and back.  They can get teh INF AND offload it in the SAME ROUND.

    Now, if that does not get our new player thinking… then I don;t know what will.

  • Moderator

    Guys, lets keep this civilized.  :-D

    Limited, while with 1 tran and 5 inf you can certainly get 6 inf to Asia on rd 2, this is not optimal.
    Like ncscs has said, don’t forget your island inf.  And you leave your arm on Japan as well.

    With a 2 tran purchase and 3 inf, you can get 6 inf AND 1 arm to Asia on J2.  Again ncscs laid out the pick up of 1 inf each from oki and wake.

    And any massive purchases of Navy by Germnay is ultimately going to cost the Germans EE.  You might, might be able to get a way 1 tran on G1 IF you leave your BB in the Cent Med for cover.

    Baker pointed out the financial down fall of this.

    The key to Afr for the Germans is to gain as much of it as possible while spending as little as possible.
    Africa is worth 12 (including Syr, Alg and Lib, excluding Mad).  So if you buy a tran for 8 and tansport 2 additional inf there you spend 14, meaning you must hold all of Afr plus some just to cover that cost.  Then another 14 IPC’s the next turn???  Do you keep doing this???  For how long???
    It is a losing proposition for Ger.

    UK and US will land heavy in Afr on rd 2 and it is all over for Germany’s hopes in Afr.


  • The Uk does not have a navy after round 1 ever.  It’s gets blown up by the GErman’s round one every game.  How do they land in Africa without a Navy?


  • 1 AC, 1 TRN, 1 INF for a build in UK1.

    US sends 2 figs to land on the AC in US1 to protect the fleet.

    US can land 2 units in Africa in US1, of up to 8 units in Africa un US2.
    UK can land 2 units in Africa in UK2.

    UK can ALSO land forces in Africa in UK1 even with the UK fleet destroyed.  See that tranny off India?  2 INF and 1 FIG counter-attack Germany in Egypt, plus another INF from Syria.  3 INF, 1 FIG against AT MOST 3 INF, 1 ARM.

    Want to keep fighting for Africa?

  • Moderator

    Yeah.

    I’ll go on rd 2, and land 2 UK inf and the 4 inf, 1 arm from the US.
    Plus the Ind, Syr inf will be lurking around as well.  Pending UK 1 move of course.


  • Dm I think I stated the pick- up move with the Japanese inf on Oki and wake, but I didn’t mention the names… But good explanation.


  • @limitedwhole:

    @Bashir:

    Lol like you state it the Axis will win almost everygame… You surely never played a decent allies player… And again Rusland losing arms to germans inf is ridicilous… If you change territories you use inf and fig => No ARMS!!!

    The Axis win about 45% of games.  I have played against excellent Allies players.  Not ridiculous.  Russia buying anything but tanks and infantry is ridiculous.  Russia is always under 20 I.P. by thrid turn.  12 for a fig instead of 4 infantry. Laughable.  If a Russian player buys figs, Germany can just roll over him.  Heck I might even buy an A.A. gun just for the fun of it and laugh when he loses four infantry every time one of his fighters gets shot down.

    Axis win 45%…  hmmm…

    If you are talking about the MB 2nd ed A&A, then
    you and your friends really do not know how to play a winnable allied strategy.

    If you look at some older threads (on other boards too), veterans used to often discuss the dismal 5-10% Axis win ratios.

    That win ratio is the whole reason behind bidding for the Axis.

    It was also a major driving force for Larry Harris to produce the latest AH version of the game discussed on the AAR topic area.


  • @madscientist:

    I played against this one guy once who, after 3 rounds and significant inroads into Africa, pulled everything back into just the capital. He had 40 inf in Germany with 4 fighters, plus building inf every round. I tried to build up forces to attack this, but I just bounced off. I made the mistake of taking SEU with Russia instead of USA, so I couldn’t build American units in Italy. Anyway, it took me so long to build up enough forces to attack this stack again, that Japan had an economic victory by then. Pulling back is sometimes advantageous.

    Jpn had an economic victory???

    Just by themselves?

    I remember the Axis at 84 EV win condition.  It is counted at the end of the USA turn.

    Please enlighten me as I am unsure how that can be achieved when Ger is missing SE, EE, Ukr, F/N and possibly WE.  That extra $14-20 is very hard to make up for unless Jpn takes over Rus.

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