Balkan re-alignments

[Witt]

@WILD:

I hear a lot the French need money. If the French got less money wouldn’t it force the Brits to spend/mobilize on the western front, instead of spending in India for 2-3 turns to crush the Turks.

I agree. It  makes sense; it happened historically.

[Flashman]

Full list of suggested changes to neutrals:

Belgium +1 ipc = 3
Holland = Netherlands +1 ipc = 3
Norway -2 ipc = 2
Switzerland +3 ipc = 4
Spain + cruiser in sz14
Albania - Turkish aligned -1 ipc = 1
Romania - French/Italian aligned
Bulgaria - Austrian aligned

In addition a slight change to the units generated: every THIRD piece is artillery so:

4 ipc = 6 inf, 2 art (Sweden, Switzerland, Spain)
3 ipc = 4 inf, 2 art (Belgium, Netherlands, Romania, Bulgaria)
2 ipc = 3 inf, 1 art (Greece, Norway, Serbia, Denmark, Portugal)
1 ipc = 2 inf only (Ethiopia, Afganistan, Arabia (Albania)

Thinking about a different map projection including the east coast of South America top include:

Mexico (German aligned)
Panama (US aligned)
Haiti (German aligned)
Cuba (US colony)
Bermuda (UK colony)
Colombia
Venezuela
Brazil (USA aligned; can only be activated by USA when at war)
Uruguay
Argentina (German aligned?)

Brazil & Argentina would have small navies:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_American_dreadnought_race

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazil_during_World_War_I

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_haiti#Failing_State_.281911.E2.80.931915.29

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pancho_Villa_Expedition

[DarthShizNit]

The leader of Argentina was about as committed to staying out of the war as Switzerland was, and even if she did somehow go to war, popular support was overwhelmingly on the side of the Entente. So strict neutrals would probably be better for them.

[Chacmool]

@Flashman:

Full list of suggested changes to neutrals:

Belgium +1 ipc = 3
Holland = Netherlands +1 ipc = 3
Norway -2 ipc = 2
Switzerland +3 ipc = 4
Spain + cruiser in sz14
Albania - Turkish aligned -1 ipc = 1
Romania - French/Italian aligned
Bulgaria - Austrian aligned

What about Montenegro? Its no longer represented by turkish aligned Albania, so I think its better to give Serbia 3 IPC

Also I think the Serbs were tougher than the Romanian troops.

Bulgaria maybe 4 IPCs?

[Flashman]

I’m basing the list on the assumption that the map tts will not change; if they do then there are more changes I’d make.

Bulgaria @ 4 is plausible for military consideration, but is it worth that economically? Same with Serbia - a toughened army that gave the Austrians a hard time, but the country was not developed economically.

Maybe Bulgaria, Turkey, Serbia, Romania & Greece get a “Balkan Bonus” to starting units to reflect recent combat experience (as opposed to a lack of it in A-H).

I also think there should be more starting fighters; Italy used aircraft in the Libyan war, and Bulgaria flew planes over Constantinople during the Balkan wars; so I think Italy, the UK, Turkey and Austria should get a starting fighter; maybe Bulgaria too and France & Germany 2 each.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulgarian_Air_Force#First_and_Second_Balkan_Wars

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbian_air_force#History

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_Air_Force#History

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austro-Hungarian_Imperial_and_Royal_Aviation_Troopshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanian_Airforce#History

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_Air_Force

Incidentally Persia seems to have had no railways, so it should be added to Africa & Afghanistan as areas where rail (i.e. 2-space) movement is not permitted.
Its another anomaly in that it had rich resourses (oil) but scarcely an army worth the name.

Regarding Argentina (above) it was more a case of it being anti-Brazil in terms of a naval arms race; so maybe if Brazil is activated by the USA then Argentina can be brought in by the CPs.

[DarthShizNit]

I would agree that the Balkan armies should start off bigger to represent their veterancy, but yeah, more IC doesn’t make much sense, I mean BUlgaria collapsed economically without ever really being challenged. They weren’t exactly economic powerhouses.

Agree to more planes, by early 1914 Russia already had the best strategic bombers of the war, and even the Austrians had their own flight schools. Every nation should start out with at least one plane IMO.

And for Argentina, I mean for game purposes sure, makes an easy balance, but as long as we recognize that it wouldn’t happen historically  :-D.

[protevangelium]

@DarthShizNit:

I would agree that the Balkan armies should start off bigger to represent their veterancy, but yeah, more IC doesn’t make much sense, I mean BUlgaria collapsed economically without ever really being challenged. They weren’t exactly economic powerhouses.

Agree to more planes, by early 1914 Russia already had the best strategic bombers of the war, and even the Austrians had their own flight schools. Every nation should start out with at least one plane IMO.

And for Argentina, I mean for game purposes sure, makes an easy balance, but as long as we recognize that it wouldn’t happen historically  :-D.

In fact, the Russian air force was the largest in the world at the start of the war. It seems that it wasn’t used very effecitvely at first, but picked up greatly from there. Some of the tactics developed by the Black Sea Fleet with seaplanes and carriers were highly advanced for the day.

[Flashman]

One possibility is to treat starting planes (and those built on round one) as reconnaisance machines, with a combat value of only 1.

Every turn/year thereafter, depending on your preferred chronology, each plane built goes up a level until in turn/year 4 new fighters are combat level 4.

When you get your extra planes from Wizards this can be facilitated by adding stripes to the wings with a marker pen/paint.

OR, each fighter that scores a kill in air to air combat is promoted one level to the maximum of 4.

OK, so each main power gets a fighter in the capital to begin with, plus an extra each for Germany & France in Munich* & Lorraine respectively.
Maybe a 2nd Russian machine in Sevastopol, and Bulgaria one to balance?

Anyone have a list of air strengths in 1914?

*or a Zeppelin based in Alsace (Friedrichshafen)

[Flashman]

Another possibility is that the level of a plane also relates to movement, so that a level 4 plane would be able to conduct bombing missions, e.g. a German L4 aircraft based in Belgium can bomb London and return to base, corresponding to 1917 Gotha bombers conducting such raids. So maybe we don’t need a seperate bomber unit at all…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gotha_Raids

[protevangelium]

@Flashman:

Another possibility is that the level of a plane also relates to movement, so that a level 4 plane would be able to conduct bombing missions, e.g. a German L4 aircraft based in Belgium can bomb London and return to base, corresponding to 1917 Gotha bombers conducting such raids. So maybe we don’t need a seperate bomber unit at all…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gotha_Raids

By level 4, I assume you mean an aircraft attacking on a 4 or less? Seems a bit much for me. Perhaps that might be true against air-to-air action, but what about their involvement in the land battle? Fighters strafing at 4 or less would be kind of ridiculous for this time period. They could certainly do damage to ground targets, but not on the scale of WWII.

Russia, France, and Germany should start with air forces. Everyone else should build them. I’m going to see what sorts of numbers I can find for air forces, c. 1914.

[DarthShizNit]

Great Britain should start with planes as well. The Royal Naval Air Service had 93 planes when the war broke out and would conduct what might have been the first strategic bombing missions of the war for the Entente when they bombed German Airship hangars on September 22, 1914.

In fact, every major nation should start with a plane (though I could understand not giving the Ottomans one as their air force at it’s apex was nothing more than a few planes, hell Romania fielded more planes than the Ottomans).

[Flashman]

In the later war aircraft conducted some pretty damaging strafing runs. We’re only talking about a few machines, so I don’t think 4 is that excessive.

But perhaps aircraft should only be able to straf if there is no air to air combat.

The level would also apply to movement; so German planes based in Belgium would be able to SBR London and return to base only at level 4, available 1917 which is about right. This depends on if you want separate bomber units or not.

[protevangelium]

@Flashman:

In the later war aircraft conducted some pretty damaging strafing runs. We’re only talking about a few machines, so I don’t think 4 is that excessive.

But perhaps aircraft should only be able to straf if there is no air to air combat.

The level would also apply to movement; so German planes based in Belgium would be able to SBR London and return to base only at level 4, available 1917 which is about right. This depends on if you want separate bomber units or not.

Ok, I see where you are going. I’m not a big fan of a seperate bomber unit, but at the same time, the Zeps, Gothas, etc., at least need some representation. They were an innovative use of airpower, but their casualties were horrendous. I’m not sure what a Zeppelin (or Gotha) cost, but it probably never broke even. Just seems like a piece that might cost a lot of IPCs for relatively little return. My feelings are mixed.

[Flashman]

My point is that the material damage done by bombing in WWI was insignificant; but the moral panic it caused was highly damaging, forcing nations to build their own bombers to retaliate, and withdraw fighters from the front line to defend their cities.
Bombers only become a viable unit if morale is the main factor in forcing the enemy out of the war.

[protevangelium]

@Flashman:

My point is that the material damage done by bombing in WWI was insignificant; but the moral panic it caused was highly damaging, forcing nations to build their own bombers to retaliate, and withdraw fighters from the front line to defend their cities.
Bombers only become a viable unit if morale is the main factor in forcing the enemy out of the war.

Sort of like an SBR on a nation’s morale factor, is what you’re thinking? I could go with that, in addition to their tactical abilities. Assuming we’re talking about Gothas, Handley Pages, Zeps, Capronis, etc. and not D.H. 4s!  :-D

[Flashman]

If you include Airships then replace the German fighter in Munich (suggested new setup) with an airship - it can hit London from there.

But Zeps have to be more vulnerable to fighters; probably only 1 in air combat. Only really viable for SBR in the early turns before fighters power up.