2014 League Post Game Results Here

[MrRoboto]

@Gamerman01:

@Balladeer:

MrRoboto (Allies +12) wins over Balladeer (Axis) - game 2

http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=34426.0

This one’s causing an avalanche in the rankings  :-)

why?

And btw, am I getting it right - my win over Balladeer was actually REDUCING my PPG? I have another game with Mallery that I’m going to win with almost certainty - should I urge him not to report it to avoid falling down even further?

Let me just say, if that’s the case - it’s a silly flaw in the ranking system. There HAS to be some way to avoid that.

[gamerman01]

You fell because that was Balladeer’s 4th game.  Causing him to be tier 4 instead of starter tier 3.  This dropped his past opponents.  JWW dropped to tier 2.  That caused a lot of other people to be adjusted.  You’ve played pretty much everyone, so when a couple players drop tiers, you take hits.  Opposite is also true.

You only go down very slightly for beating a tier 4.  A 3.30 playing a tier 4 is a pretty severe mismatch.

You are 20-0 against tier 4’s.  Those are not competitive games, frankly.

[gamerman01]

You are 1-15 against tier 1’s.  I would argue that you are still over-rated at 3.30.  So your beating up on tier 4’s is actually putting your PPG closer to where it should be.  System is near perfect  :-D

[gamerman01]

And no you should not urge him not to report it.  Finished league games are to be reported.

You have played 67 games and are at 3.30.  You know how much a +3 is going to reduce your PPG?  Probably by less than .01.

You should be playing tier 1-3, Roboto.  Again, you are 20-0 against tier 4, and probably very few of those were even close.

[gamerman01]

Actually, if I were you I would play tier 2’s and 3’s, and play 4’s for fun (which is probably why you play them).

At 1-15 against tier 1’s, you’re definitely not in that category.  I mean, the dice are going to give you a win once in a while.

20-0 against tier 4’s - that just proves my system is working great.  You didn’t even allow a single DICE win to them.

[Karl7]

The Known Soldier over Karl7 Allies

http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=34491.75

Terrible game for me… the dice bled the allies dry including a couple real woppers like the japanese dd’s that can kills numerous subs and planes again and again in one off battles…  :-P

[Karl7]

Axis Dominion as Axis over Karl 7

http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=34505.60

this isn’t my day, another dicing… this time in a big sea battle… sometimes I hate this game…  :-P

[MrRoboto]

I’m not arguing that your system isn’t putting me at the right spot or that it’s ranking ppl wrongly. It is in fact working very accurately.

I just think it’s very counter-intuitional that you’re dropping after a win, no matter who you defeated.

I take challenges from everyone, not even looking at your spreadsheet. In fact, I have not checked it for at least half a year. And I am also challenging basically everyone. Especially newcomers to that site, because I want to welcome them, give them advice and guide them. And while most of them turn out to be tier 3-4 (like Balladeer), sometimes they turn out to be quite good. Your posts made it look like I was grinding on tier 4 ppl to get cheap wins and frankly, I do not want to be perceived that way.

I’m used to ELO rating systems. In these, you just get a +1 or even a +0 when defeating a much lower opponent. Being punished for winning against a tier 4 means that I will be very careful at choosing my opponent next season. Including refusing any challenges from newcomers, which is a shame.

[MrRoboto]

If I had fully understood that aspect and not have played a single game against tier 4’s (thus removing 20 games (wins) of my belt), my ranking would be 3.4 instead of 3.3.

While it doesn’t affect me hugely, it could have put me (or anyone else) in another tier.

If your system requires me to win against tier 4’s to drop my PPG to more accurately rate me, I consider that a flaw (in an otherwise very well working system).

[gamerman01]

Right, I hear all that and I’ve heard it before from others.
Was not trying to make you look like anything, just pointing out interesting and relevant facts, like 20-0 against tier 4.

PPG is not like a high score that you should be trying to see how high you can get, not necessarily.  If you take all comers, don’t expect your PPG to be maximized.

Whether you get a 3 point score that very slightly lowers your PPG or your PPG stays unchanged, the difference is not significant.

I would argue that you should NOT be close to tier 1 (3.40) because you have gone 1-15 against tier 1’s.  So I actually think that it’s good that beating a tier 4 is 3 points and would slightly lower a player who has PPG over 3.00.  You are 4-3 against Karl who is at 2.72 and 4-1 against Juan who is at 2.65.  Seems 3.30 is where you should be, definitely no higher.  So in my mind you are reinforcing that it is appropriate to drop slightly for playing tier 4’s.

A tier 4 is 1.50 or below.  You went 20-0 against them this year.  If you’re just playing to have fun (taking all comers) that’s awesome, that’s what the league is all about.  But the idea that you can just play any challenger who comes along without considering their rating at all, and that your rating should be maximized, just doesn’t really mix, not with this system.

ELO has flaws too.  It is easy to become over-rated, by beating up on weaklings a lot.

[gamerman01]

I will repeat a point I’ve made multiple times before.

Even if your PPG stays the same or dips slightly after a win over a weak player, you are getting a benefit.  Your PPG is becoming firmer because you have completed more games.  If you subsequently lose in a competitive match, your PPG will not drop as much as it would have, if you had never recorded the previous win against a weaker player.

I am not willing to tweak the system to take away the possibility that you will drop when over-matching another player and winning, because that will have other effects, namely, creating more over-rated players.

You can already easily be over-rated.  We have players who play a few games, beat a couple tier 4’s and a couple tier 3’s, and they’re at 3.5 or above and tier 1.  But would probably get waxed by a tier 1 if they actually played one.

[hobo]

ok going to have to ask for a call on my game. he’s been mia for a long time now.

hobo (axis) vs axisandalliesplayer (allies +12)

http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=33739.45

[JuanSpain]

@Gamerman01:

I will repeat a point I’ve made multiple times before.

Even if your PPG stays the same or dips slightly after a win over a weak player, you are getting a benefit.  Your PPG is becoming firmer because you have completed more games.  If you subsequently lose in a competitive match, your PPG will not drop as much as it would have, if you had never recorded the previous win against a weaker player.

I am not willing to tweak the system to take away the possibility that you will drop when over-matching another player and winning, because that will have other effects, namely, creating more over-rated players.

You can already easily be over-rated.  We have players who play a few games, beat a couple tier 4’s and a couple tier 3’s, and they’re at 3.5 or above and tier 1.  But would probably get waxed by a tier 1 if they actually played one.

I think it is not possible to achieve that a win does not reduce your PPG, Roboto is 3.30 but others like you are closed to 6, so there is no way to achieve that wins don´t reduce PPG.

The system works pretty good I think, may be what could be studied is your Tier not being reduced by a win (allthough your PPG moves), which might facilitate Roboto and others accepting more challenges. May be a good point with current Tier barriers is that all wins are increased by 0.5 in their value, so at least playing a Tier 4 does not mean reducing your Tier (if you win).

It would also mean a few more players reaching Tier 1, but not many, and PPG would still order them the same way. If the effect in Tier 1,s number being increased is not desired, may be only the win to be increased by 0,5 is the one vs a Tier 4.

[gamerman01]

As always, thanks for feedback and ideas, Juan and Mr Roboto

I consider everything I hear

[666]

@MrRoboto:

I take challenges from everyone

Mr. Roboto, for the purposes of the league, the playoffs and rankings, I would suggest that you spend a bit more time evaluating who you play in the league, I only suggest this as I am now doing the same to help my PPG next season. I suggest this assuming you want to have a higher rating and make a bid for the playoffs. No system is perfect but this system seems to work out quite well.

Like you I used to welcome newcomers and help teach them “in the league”. Now I suggest we play a non-league game. Still fun, helps newbie’s, you can try out new strategies etc…and it won’t even slightly hurt your PPG……

Just my two cents

[gamerman01]

Thanks, JWW
Good advice

[arathorn]

Ghost (allies +13) over Arathorn (Axis)

http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=33723.120

Still very much up for grabs, with a slight advantage for Allies, but I won’t have time to complete this in the near future.

[arathorn]

snake11eyes (allies +12) over arathorn (Axis)

http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=33724.135

I hoped for the longest time that I would be able to stretch for a pacific win after disastrous dice decimated the European theatre consistently throughout the game. Destruction of German airforce for nothing over the course of early rounds led to disaster, and Japan couldn’t do the job though they were close at one point.

good game snake

[arathorn]

Wheatbeer (Axis) over Arathorn (Allies + 22)

Well played by Wheatbeer in European scenario.

I still argue this game is contested, but the economic advantage of a super Italy would probably grind this win in for the Axis. And with me not having time in the weeks ahead, wheat deserves the win.

Axis are 4-0 in the games between Arathorn and Wheat, even with very large bids.

http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=34221.150

[arathorn]

My apologies to my worthy opponents for delays and not being able to claim their wins at the rolls of final dice, but my schedule has disabled me from quality play the next few weeks, and I don’t want to hinder you in the pursuit of wrapping up our games before the playoffs start.

I wasn’t going to make the cut for the playoffs anyway at this point unless something drastic changed, and I wouldn’t have been able to participate even if I should have qualified.

My ranking will drop to tier 2 :( and should thus create some changes among the top players.

May the best win.