Rule clarification - sub retreat options

[Rasmustb]

Im playing a game where the US attacked the japanese fleet in sz6. There was no defending destroyers but som subs, trannies and carriers with airplanes. US attacked with subs, destroyers, carriers and planes. As the battle turned out US kept his subs and sank all my boats but a japanese ftr prevailed in the overall seabattle.

Now my question is: Are the subs allowed to retreat from the battle when the only units left are a defending ftr and some attacking subs or does the battle simply end? And by retreat I mean as in move back to one of the adjacent sea zones the subs came from?

Any help would be much appreciated! (Link to game thread: http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=31961.75)

/Rasmus

[knp7765]

If the only Japanese units left were planes, the attacking US subs don’t have to retreat. The battle simply ends because neither of those units can hit each other.
Also, any defending transports will be killed by the subs and the planes can’t protect them.

[Rasmustb]

I get that but are they allowed to retreat?

[Witt]

I have been thinking about your question and I looked at the map too(did not really help).
I am not sure they can. Is it an error in AAA?
I thought The attacker had to retreat all units and if he does, your Transports survive. Either your Transports or his Subs must occupy SZ6.

We need a proper ruling.

[gamerman01]

First of all, what Triple A does means nothing.  There are many, many Triple A errors with regard to the rule book.
One of these errors is that Triple A give you a retreat option when there are only transports left, but this is illegal because you can’t retreat from units that have no attack value (transports and AA guns).

However, you had defending aircraft still in the zone.  See page 20 of 2nd edition Europe rulebook.
Condition A: “Once all units that can either fire or retreat on one or both sides have been destroyed, the combat ends”

You have subs that can fire.  He has planes that can fire.  It doesn’t seem to matter that they can’t possibly hit each other.  Combat has not ended.  It appears that you can retreat the subs because both sides still have units that can fire.  You could even wait until you have sunk all the transports, and then retreat from the aircraft.

I am not 100% sure on this answer because I can’t find anything definitive in the rulebook that answers this question.  You need to ask Krieghund to be 100% sure.

[Krieghund]

You can’t retreat if there’s nothing to retreat from.  If neither side can hit the other, the battle’s over.

[Rasmustb]

Thank you all for your contributions and krieg for the official ruling!

and very fast reply as well… You run a smooth operation!

cheers

[gamerman01]

This is your rules question:

http://keltonburgpreacher.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/cat-in-junk-pile1.jpg

This is Krieghund, a magnet for rules questions:

http://www.visualphotos.com/photo/1x6578401/electromagnetic_crane_A0509A.jpg