Govt. Response to Katrina

[Linkon]

Did any of these finger pointers alert FEMA, Bush, the coast guard, local Nat’l guards, etc… prior to the levee failures?

Or did they sit and wait for the second day of bad news reports, to pounce on the Bush administration? This could have given them lots of political capital. Then they can play the vote divider card to win the poor blacks in the next election.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/katrina/katrina_timeline.html

Pres Bush declared a state of emergency the day before the levees broke. This was the day of Katrina’s LA landfall.

Bush cut his vacation short the following day when the levees broke.

He didn’t lift a finger when it hit Florida.

I don’t see victoms there blaming him.

[Linkon]

Perhaps there was an order given to plant bombs in the levee to blow it apart.

Maybe that levee was was used for stealth bomber target practice.

It was part of his “secret” plan to drown out the black Al Queda cells there. Oh yeah, NOLA citizens harboring the terrorists are not with us, so they are against us…

[Jennifer]

@stuka:

Okay, Jen, let’s suppose for a moment that you are right. That the local government is at fault here. So the rest of us just stood by and watched it happen live on the news? I guess JW just sat on his a$$ and waited for the state of emergency call. Boy, what a savior.

I am just pointing out the stupidity of your arguments. From the war,… to local politics…. to this disaster… dang girl, do you have anything good going on in your head? Or is it just a bunch of passing blames, bringing up phony info without links and not even having the decency of take a step back and truly understand what has happened to these people. Thousands died and all you can manage to say is how it compares to Iraq and why you think there are so many similarities. This is not an insurgency. Those people in N.O. aren’t fighting an occupation. Just shut up and think first. All you care about is defending your views. Go back to your church and beg forgiveness if you think it will help. Do something. Jeez.

Stuka, you obviously are ignorant of the laws. The federal government is NOT PERMITTED to supply aid in any form to a state unless the state specifically asks for it. It was designed that way to prohibit empire building here at home. So, while the governoress was out playing golf, her people languished while the feds awaited permission to come help.

[Jennifer]

@stuka:

First off, the state and local governments made the state of emergency call PRIOR to when Katrina hit. It was on all the news channels or were you sleeping during that time?

Second, when a state declares a state of emergency, that means they are calling for federal aid. Did it come? NO.

You people who blame the mayor and governor of not doing what was evidently done on requesting help makes you look like morons yourselves. Are you saying that the President is free of helping one of the states that he is responsible for?

Also for years, the state of Louisiana have been requesting funds for levee repairs for YEARS. A short while back, they finally got the grant for reinforcing those levies. Shortly after that, your bitchboy Bush pulled the money back for the war effort. Yeah, he is as innocent as a choir boy.

So why was the city in bad shape, you ask? Because they were requesting help from a dumbass Administration who follow personal agendas.

The problem with your niavette is that you fail to realize that ultimately it is the Govenor and Mayor who are responsible, not the President. He has to take care of the nation, they have to take care of a handful of people.

BTW, saying it’s disaster on television is NOT officially declaring it into law allowing for full federal aid to be unleashed on the state which would have included Air Cav evacuations, bus and train evacuations, reinforcement of the levvies from the Army Corps of Engineers, stock piles of food, medicine and clothing to be air dropped in, etc.

Now they ahve to clean up afterwards because it is only NOW that the morons in charge have asked for assistance from the feds.

[Jennifer]

@haxorboy:

On trust me…the fallout from this ordeal is long from over, and the voters of the South will not forget the administration and party that left them to dry for 4 days - I guess you underestimate the South. And you can just keep on blaming local officals for everyone dying in NO if that helps you get past this. But FEMA - in case you don’t know what that stands for, www.fema.gov is the body responsible to react to national disasters. And I didn’t think FEMA would have people on teh way the next day…although it is their orgainizations entire mission to plan for such things and have plans ready, esp. when they knew the storm was coming, to have a much more organized response. But come on you are saying that not having truck rolls until 4 days after the storm passed is acceptable?

So this means their govenor and mayor will be replaced with human beings? Good! Obviously the people in power down there now are only in it for their own personal glory and if that hurts the population then so be it.

[Jennifer]

A great president once said that the Government is not the solution to our problems but rather the Government was our problems.

With that said, the mayor and govenor should have been evacuating people the week before the storm when it was confirmed that they would be hit with a class 5 hurricane.

Furthermore, they had funds set aside from special taxes specifically TO evacuate in teh case of a storm or volcano or other natural disaster that could potentially have destroyed their city, a fund they did not use as intended.

Furthermore, they had numerous plans to evacuate the city, none of which were implemented.

Furthermore, the leaders of that state and city where no where to be found during the storm while their people huddled in terror in the superdome.

Furthermore, the president - being barred by law - could only stand by helplessly and watch as citizens died because of the closed mindedness of the local politicians.

Furthermore, the levvies were never designed correctly and it had been pointed out for decades that they wouldn’t withstand waves higher then a few feet. This should have been corrected by the city, the county and the state, not passed on to the next generation so local politicians could line their pockets with gold.

This is EXACTLY why the states should be self sufficient and the feds should be completely crippled domestically. Why didn’t LA call on MS or GA for help? TN and KY are close by too they could have helped evacuate just as well as Washington DC could ever have. But no, you look at a disaster like this and blame the President, and it doesn’t matter WHO the president is, he’s the big name, he gets blamed, even when he has nothing to do with it and couldnt avoid or impact it if he wanted too.

[stuka pilot]

Some exerpts from that timeline link:

Aug 27-New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin declares a state of emergency and urges residents in low-lying areas to evacuate. Mississippi Governor Haley Barbour declares a state of emergency.

This is the first call for federal help.

Aug 28- Mayor Nagin orders a mandatory evacuation for New Orleans, but 10 shelters are also set up, including the Superdome, for those unable to leave. Evacuation orders are posted all along the Mississippi coast

First signs of mass hysteria hit when everyone tries to get the hell outta town early, plugging up all the exits. Everyone else have little choice but to seek shelter or get caught in the storm.

Aug 29 (2 DAYS LATER after Louisiana declares a state of emergency) President Bush makes emergency disaster declarations for Louisiana and Mississippi, freeing up federal funds.

Hmmm… you say “only NOW”, Jen? Open your f*ckin eyes…

Aug 30- President Bush cuts short his vacation.

Thank god. I was worried.

Aug 31 - Blanco asks the White House to send more help, and New Orleans police are called off search-and-rescue missions to combat out-of-control looting.

This is where I think the governor blew it. YOU DONT CALL OFF S&R TO COMBAT LOOTERS. You must continue to rescue when it is a crucial time. That should have been priority all along. But still yelling for help from the white house……

Aug 31- (FINALLY)The Pentagon mounts one of largest search-and-rescue operations in American history, sending in four Navy ships with emergency supplies.

Nagin, the New Orleans mayor, calls the situation critical and issues “a desperate SOS” for more buses. Crowds at the Superdome swell to 30,000, with another 25,000 at the convention centre.

President Bush tours the Gulf Coast area and acknowledges the failure so far of government relief efforts, saying “the results are not acceptable.”

No comment needed I think.

Black groups and leaders -including Jesse Jackson, the NAACP and the U.S. Congressional Black Caucus- contend that aid has been slow to arrive because of indifference to black suffering.

Now, I don’t agree that any of this crisis was racially motivated. It was a piss-poor recovery operation on a mass of PEOPLE. Period.

The last 300 victims in the Louisiana Superdome finally get out,

That has to be the longest evac in history.

[stuka pilot]

@Jennifer:

A great president once said that the Government is not the solution to our problems but rather the Government was our problems.

I guess he is right since ours did practically nothing for 3 days.

With that said, the mayor and govenor should have been evacuating people the week before the storm when it was confirmed that they would be hit with a class 5 hurricane.

A week? What… are they psychic??

Furthermore, they had funds set aside from special taxes specifically TO evacuate in teh case of a storm or volcano or other natural disaster that could potentially have destroyed their city, a fund they did not use as intended.

Who is they? The mayor and governor? They used up a great deal of funding already. It was not enough. This is not California where they have a butt-load of money on the side.

Furthermore, they had numerous plans to evacuate the city, none of which were implemented.

Look at the map. They have two ways out essentially. Those highways were jammed the day the told everyone to leave.

Furthermore, the leaders of that state and city where no where to be found during the storm while their people huddled in terror in the superdome.

Like FEMA during the aftermath….

Furthermore, the president - being barred by law - could only stand by helplessly and watch as citizens died because of the closed mindedness of the local politicians.

this is hilarious, since they declared a state of emergency before katrina hit and ask for his help You seem to keep leaving that out.

Furthermore, the levvies were never designed correctly and it had been pointed out for decades that they wouldn’t withstand waves higher then a few feet. This should have been corrected by the city, the county and the state, not passed on to the next generation so local politicians could line their pockets with gold.

They requested funding and Bush diverted the funds to the war effort. Next….

This is EXACTLY why the states should be self sufficient and the feds should be completely crippled domestically. Why didn’t LA call on MS or GA for help? TN and KY are close by too they could have helped evacuate just as well as Washington DC could ever have. But no, you look at a disaster like this and blame the President, and it doesn’t matter WHO the president is, he’s the big name, he gets blamed, even when he has nothing to do with it and couldnt avoid or impact it if he wanted too.

No this is EXACTLY why the Feds need to step up. A poor state like Louisiana does not have the economy for this kind of tragedy. You just don’t get it.

[DarthMaximus]

this is hilarious, since they declared a state of emergency before katrina hit and ask for his help You seem to keep leaving that out.

I think you may be misunderstanding what the declaration of a state of emergency means.

This declaration gives the States more power (more specifically the Governor of whatever state). The Gov gets more power because he is basically “president” of the State. That is why you elect Governors.

All the declaration does is tell the states, hey if you need help our resources are here for you to use, but the STATE must still ask for this help and then dictate how it is used.

Generally it is money to be spent after said disaster.

Forget about Katrina for a sec, and think about FL last year. When FL was pummeled by Hurricanens and a Fed Dis Area was stated, at no time did the Pres run down there and start calling the shots. What it did was give Jeb the power to tell federal officials/troops or whatever to do what he thinks is best for his state.

When earthquakes hit Cali and emergency is declared (say in 89), again the Pres doesn’t ride in, the authority is given by the Fed to the Local gov’t to use Federal resources. This is why we have local governements.

Because an emergency is declared DOES NOT mean a Governor cedes his authority of control of his/her State.

Bush offered federal help but the Gov, but she said she needed 24 hrs to think about the proposal (this was said by the Mayor of NO). Which explains why there was at least a 1 day lag.

Again, I don’t the the Gov officially accepted the help till Wed.

I can’t say this enough, simply declaring emergency does not give any President the power to rule over the effected area in some State and order people around. It gives those local officials more power in a time of crisis to deal with it, by provided Federal resources who now report to the local official in charge. Usually the Governor. This is why we have local gov’t.

Note:
None of this is ment to come off a bad or mean tone. And there is no intention of being mean. Just trying to be informative and emphasize certain things.
I just want to clarify since sometimes it can be hard to tell on a MB. :D

[Jennifer]

Stuka,

THE MAYOR CANNOT DECLARE A STATE OF EMERGENCY WHICH GRANTS PERMISSION TO THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. Please, open a friggin law book once in a while. Only the Govenor can invite the feds in, the mayor can ask for the Govenor and the National Guard but that’s it.

The govenor did NOT declare a state of emergency until well after the hurricane was over, meanwhile, the President - taking all measures he was legally able too such as set up funds to help, manuever relief aid and military forces to assist - had to watch from the sidelines or face impeachment for illegally declaring martial law and usurping the state rights and the power of the local govenor.

I don’t understand why this is so hard for you to understand. At times you seem somewhat intelligent, you should be able to figure this out for yourself.

[Mary]

So Bush can lie repeatedly, ignore the UN, and invade a foreign nation, but when it comes to hurricane relief, he’s worried about overstepping his bounds? Am I hearing this right from some people?

My favorite Bushism so far has to be his praise of our eminantely qualified FEMA director: “You’re doing a bang-up job, Brownie!”. Apprently, running a horse-breeding facility provides the perfect training to helm the nation’s largest emergency repsonse organization. Bang-up, indeed!

[DarthMaximus]

So, you support the war in Iraq now.
Good to have you on board.

Congress gave Bush the authority to go to war. Suckers!!!

The Gov of LA did not officially accept Federal aid till well after the storm hit.

It’s funny how some people in New Orleans STILL don’t want to leave.

How was it Bush was suposed to get people out. Some still won’t leave!!!

The Mayor Didn’t get people out, the Gov didn’t get people out, BUT Bush could get these people to leave. :roll: sheeesh.

I have to admit, prior to the storm hitting I was wonder if the media was hyping it too much. And I heard several residents of NO say that while the storm was a CAT 5 they believed it would weaken prior to hitting land and they were going to stay (which is common for hurricanes, as this one hit land a a level of CAT 4).

So, I’m sure the leaders of LA were pondering whether they wanted to be on TV Forcibly removing people and enforcing the Mandatory evacuation that was give a full 24 hrs prior to the storm hitting.

Personally, I think that photo of all the school buses under water is pretty funny, in a sad sort of way.

[Mary]

Bad presidents (E.g., Bush and Johnson) abuse their authority for spurious reasons.

Good presidents (e.g., Lincoln) exceed their authority for a greater good.

All that’s required for evil to succeed is for good people to do nothing. When the chips are down, Bush shows his true colors. The first time, he spent 8 minutes reading “My Pet Goat” while planes were hitting the Trade Center. This time, he vacationed in Crawford while Orleans died on national TV.

[DarthMaximus]

LOL!!!

Hey, it looks like Michael Moore is a member of this site!!!

LOL!!!

[cystic crypt]

@Mary:

So Bush can lie repeatedly, ignore the UN, and invade a foreign nation, but when it comes to hurricane relief, he’s worried about overstepping his bounds? Am I hearing this right from some people?

lmao
i was thinking this exact thing this morning.
“How can the guy justify invading another nation, kill thousands of its citizens, and impose its will, but is afraid to send federal aid to a nation that is clearly in over its head??”

I’m thinkin’ that the guy dropped the ball again. what a knob.

My favorite Bushism so far has to be his praise of our eminantely qualified FEMA director: “You’re doing a bang-up job, Brownie!”. Apprently, running a horse-breeding facility provides the perfect training to helm the nation’s largest emergency repsonse organization. Bang-up, indeed!

was this before or after he derided the response as being unacceptable?

[Mary]

@cystic:

@Mary:

So Bush can lie repeatedly, ignore the UN, and invade a foreign nation, but when it comes to hurricane relief, he’s worried about overstepping his bounds? Am I hearing this right from some people?

lmao
i was thinking this exact thing this morning.
“How can the guy justify invading another nation, kill thousands of its citizens, and impose its will, but is afraid to send federal aid to a nation that is clearly in over its head??”

I’m thinkin’ that the guy dropped the ball again. what a knob.

My favorite Bushism so far has to be his praise of our eminantely qualified FEMA director: “You’re doing a bang-up job, Brownie!”. Apprently, running a horse-breeding facility provides the perfect training to helm the nation’s largest emergency repsonse organization. Bang-up, indeed!

was this before or after he derided the response as being unacceptable?

There’s so many Bushisms, you need a timeline to sort them all out.

Darth, do you deny this? Regardless, I have to correct myself: Bush spent five minutes reading “My Pet Goat” AFTER the SECOND plane had hit the towers and AFTER being told “America is under attack”. Here’s video if you want it:

http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/bushvideos/v/bushpetgoat.htm

It’s not like this is a big secret or anything. America’s under attack, I’ll just sit here and read to a bunch of kids. Now that’s leadership!

[Jennifer]

Not scaring the kids and taking some time to think of a logical course of action after the WTC for a mere 5 minutes (which is ultra fast as far as I’m concerned, if someone told me my house was destroyed it would take more then 5 minutes to take full effect, let alone 3000 casualties and billions in damages) has no bearing on the fact that the Mayor and Govenor refused to declare a state of emergency through proper channels with proper paperwork and allow the President and his administration to use the funds and manpower already earmarked to assist to do their job.

But nice try to pass the buck.

BTW, worst presidents in history - in order:

Taft - Crook
Nixon - Leader of the Crooks
Grant - Incompetant Drunk
Clinton - Incompetant, Liar
FDR - Biggest national debt in US History with ramifactions still not seen today

Best presidents in history - in order:

Reagan - Saved us from nuclear annihilation
Lincoln - Finally created a state where all US Citizens are equal regardless of race, religion, etc.
Washington - Set the standards for being president
Eisenhower - Created the interstate system and connected the country
Garfield - Didn’t live long enough to do any damage

[Linkon]

@justus:

this has nothing to do race but more with economic status. If you’re poor you get pizzed on, which as I said before, is much worse than getting pizzed off …these are dis-enfranchised people who have no political voice and so nobody gave a fducj…

So Teddy would have been electricuted a long time ago if he was poor and left that same girl to drown in the creek…

I see articles lambasting the FEMA director for being disqualified to serve. This after a disaster where response seems to be slow.

Did they make a fuss about the appointment? Did they stall it or were they too preoccupied with stopping judicial nominees? Or did they think that a disaster will eventually happen and they can spring the accusation then?

Did Teddy’s actions back then qualify him for Senate? Does his continued drunkeness qualify him to serve the state of MA?

[haxorboy]

has no bearing on the fact that the Mayor and Govenor refused to declare a state of emergency through proper channels with proper paperwork and allow the President and his administration to use the funds and manpower already earmarked to assist to do their job.

Keep telling the people of New Orleans that waited at the very least 4 days for the trucks from outside the affect area to show up for no good reason other then a breakdown at the highest level in FEMA and HLS. the local officals have all said they will admit blame and fault when the time comes…something not one member of FEMA or HLS has stated in public. And illregardless how much faith can you put in a Mayor facing a storm of that size and never having been through something like that - he paniced just like you and I. Over at FEMA they simulate these type of situations and come up with plans of action all the time - it’s their job. Sure the Mayor might have paniced and not got all the right things done - HIS CITY WAS ABOUT TO BE WIPED OFF TEH FACE OF THE EARTH. But the higher administration members of FEMA were comfortable at home and in their offices, with no pressure of flooding or dying to cloud their judgement and allow for a plan of attack to be drawn up as it was unfolding - I bet if it was a horse race it would have come off without a hitch ;)

[Mary]

has no bearing on the fact that the Mayor and Govenor refused to declare a state of emergency through proper channels with proper paperwork and allow the President and his administration to use the funds and manpower already earmarked to assist to do their job.

Because we all know Bush is a “paperwork” and “proper channels” kind of guy :roll:

Oh, and being stunned for a few minutes after the first plane hit is perfectly understandable. Remaining shell-shocked after the SECOND plane hit is inexcusable. At the very least, I would want to know if my family is OK. After all, I’m the president, and this is an attack on America. Hmm, maybe my family is at risk? Maybe I should find out if they’re ok? Nah, gotta finish “My Pet Goat” first.

Edit: Oh, listen to the newly released tapes from dispatchers on 9/11. Listen to them calmly go about their jobs as the planes crash and the buildings implode. You won’t find a single one that froze for even a minute. Now compare that to our Commander in Chief reading a child’s book for five minutes…

But hey, there’s a saying: The American people deserve whoever they elect.