@F_alk:
…It’s not like they were ignorant of the dangers (that is the government) they should have been completely evacuated days before the hurricane hit and had 0 human casualties.
Who is the the “they” that is not the government but should have evacuated the city? …
more importantly: who should have paid for it?Only rich people can afford a weak state.
The government WAS informed of the potential disasters. They DID have a slush fund set aside in trust specifically to handle this type of disaster. They DID have plenty of warning to evacuate 100% of the population including the homeless. They CHOSE to tell everyone to walk to the Superdome and then they CHOSE to charge admission so only the financially stable could afford at least that small bit of protection from the wind and rain, F_alk.
Then, to make matters even WORSE, the Govenor of the great state of Louisianna, CHOSE not to declare an emergency for days after the event which kept the door closed on the federal government from sending any form of aid. This non-action forced the American Red Cross and other non-governmental agencies to bear the brunt of the disaster and prohibitted federal units - trained and experienced in these matters - from comming to their aid with full medical teams, search teams, etc. Many of the teams down there NOW are the same ones that earned their stripes in 9/11, but they could have been there DAYS ago had the govenor just got off her fat little duff and put down the twinky so she could call for help.
I am so tempted to blame this on the political parties in control down there, but I don’t even think the party could be blamed for this. This is shear “good ol’ boy” crap followed by greed and ignorance. I hope heads roll for this, I really do, and I hope it starts with that assinine govenor of theirs followed by that idiot mayor.
Ah ok … i misunderstood your fist posting on this.
Still:@Jennifer:
…then they CHOSE to charge admission so only the financially stable could afford at least that small bit of protection from the wind and rain
If you look up, last time you said this it was only a rumor you heard. Now you sell it as a fact.
They didn’t charge the people to get into the dome.
You’re right. It’s still rumor because I havn’t seen any factual evidence, only blogs and heresay from others. But it doesn’t exactly strike me as something that’s completely out of character for the human race, so at least it’s plausible.
Okay, Jen, let’s suppose for a moment that you are right. That the local government is at fault here. So the rest of us just stood by and watched it happen live on the news? I guess JW just sat on his a$$ and waited for the state of emergency call. Boy, what a savior.
I am just pointing out the stupidity of your arguments. From the war,… to local politics…. to this disaster… dang girl, do you have anything good going on in your head? Or is it just a bunch of passing blames, bringing up phony info without links and not even having the decency of take a step back and truly understand what has happened to these people. Thousands died and all you can manage to say is how it compares to Iraq and why you think there are so many similarities. This is not an insurgency. Those people in N.O. aren’t fighting an occupation. Just shut up and think first. All you care about is defending your views. Go back to your church and beg forgiveness if you think it will help. Do something. Jeez.
Ill never understand why some people stick by our A-hole president,no matter what…He could kill an infant (in fact he has,in Iraq)and people will back him up,making excuses for him…This president will go down as the worst ever.When there is a crisis of this magnitude,when people are looking for a leader,the president must rise to the occasion,putting all politics behind him and helping those in need.How? By taking charge of the situation immediately and by-passing all of the red tape.I am so ashamed of this little man…He embarrasses and sickens me…I think he is the anti-christ :evil: …and im not joking…
Yeah, Hydra, I know what you mean. If he spit blood on a baby in broad day light, people would still defend him.
And by the way, Jen. A state of emergency was declared BEFORE the hurricane hit. Looks like you got caught in a lie yet again.
Read for yourself: http://www.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/08/28/hurricane.katrina/
Then apologize.
Yes, this shows that Bush was on top of it and the Gov of LA failed to act.
Bush Declared a State of Emergency on Late Sat or Early Sun, I believe, and urged a Manditory Evacuation.
This gives the Govenor the power to ENFORCE this. However, she did not issue the Manditory evacuation order until 12 hrs later.
And then did nothing to enforce it.
I believe Jen is correct, when she says the Govenor didn’t “officially” approve the disaster area until a day or 2 after the storm.
Here’s how it works.
(A storm hits!)
Feds issue - Federal Disaster Area.
NOW
The Gov of said state has the power to do all sorts of things but must first of course approve the order of the Feds (that it is a disaster area)
NOW
The STATE (Read GOV) has the power to issue evacuation warnings, forcibly remove people if necessary, mobilize the National Guard Etc.
Just because a Pres says “Fed disaster area” doesn’t mean the Army comes running in. It grants the Governor more power who in turn MUST ASK THE FEDS to get involved.
That’s what it does. All Bush did was say if you need the FED we are here, but the Gov failed to use her power to get the ball rolling or in turn ask for the Fed to step in. She didn’t until a day after the storm, it might have even been Wed. by that time
You should be asking how did the local gov fail?
Why did they not use all those school buses (that were flooded, I’m sure you’ve seen the pic), to evacuate people?
That is officially stated in the LA guide for Hurricanes and what should be done.
Why did the MAyor and Gov not enforce the Mandatory Evacuation that was give 24 hrs befor the storm hit?
Why did they not supply the SuperDome with food, water, extra toilets? They had several days warning of a Cat 5 warning. I remember hear Cat five as early as Sat. That gives at least 2 days.
Why no security at the Superdome? Again this wasn’t a surprise storm.
Why not mobilize the NG prior to the storm?
I find it equally as sickening that some of you hate Bush so much that it turns you into utter morons.
You actually argueing that Bush could have rode in and in one foul swoop wisked everyone away prior to the storm???
As I’ve said what the heck were the local officials doing???
That is why we have Govenors and state governements!!!
If you want the Feds to do everything there is no point to State Gov’t.
Please take a step back and actually think.
By the way check the Murder Rate of NO prior to Katrina. It isn’t a very safe place to live regardless.
Why was the city in such bad shape? Because they have their own Democratic machine that cares nothing for the people.
First off, the state and local governments made the state of emergency call PRIOR to when Katrina hit. It was on all the news channels or were you sleeping during that time?
Second, when a state declares a state of emergency, that means they are calling for federal aid. Did it come? NO.
You people who blame the mayor and governor of not doing what was evidently done on requesting help makes you look like morons yourselves. Are you saying that the President is free of helping one of the states that he is responsible for?
Also for years, the state of Louisiana have been requesting funds for levee repairs for YEARS. A short while back, they finally got the grant for reinforcing those levies. Shortly after that, your bitchboy Bush pulled the money back for the war effort. Yeah, he is as innocent as a choir boy.
So why was the city in bad shape, you ask? Because they were requesting help from a dumbass Administration who follow personal agendas.
As I’ve said what the heck were the local officials doing???
Watching their houses float away and hope their loved ones and neighbors didn’t die…
And if you can’t take a step back for one moment and realize there was a lack of response on epic proportions from the AGENCIES WHOSE ENTIRE MAKEUP IS TO REACT DURING NATURAL DISASTERS AND NATIONAL CRISIS then you are just blinded by thinking these are someone personal attacks on Dubya and there for you need to make vague racial references and lose sight of the fact that THERE ARE STILL PEOPLE DYING DOWN THERE AND 10’S OF THOUSANDS THAT LOST EVERYTHING THEY HAD.
It’s all well and good to take pot shots at the Gov. of Louisana ( is it because she is a women AND Democrat I wonder? ) and pin the responsiblity of it taking 4 days for an organized response from other states resources and agencies ( FEMA’s job ) to get relief and supplies into the area, and secure the area ( HLS job ) as how can you call upon local National Guard troops if they are trying to save their families and get out of the way?
Everyday I am just shocked and amazed at the lack of compassion of far leaning right wing Republican’s trying to someone save face and deflect blame for all this…I don’t remember reading any newspaper articles stating George Bush is responsible for New Orleans flooding - Kanye West doesn’t count, he is just mad in general. Do you know HLS only Sunday setup a emergency triage helpdesk in the Eisenhower Executive Office to help handle the flood of media questions? How would I know this…I helped today fix the giant mess they had in that room and looked at the schedule of people and tickets opened for computers to be live in that room. You can defend Bush all you want as this is not his problem directly, his administration under him failed and failed the entire United States badly.
But since this is in the South, and mainly a “crime riddled area” this doesn’t strike home to some of you and you can just dismiss it and go about your business hate mongering the Democrat’s every chance you get. Enjoy your time…as againeven though this wasn’t Dubya’s blunder himself, this certainly cost him alot of political capital and that of his party come election time…
No, it strikes very close to home.
Two of my best friends live (well lived in) NO. I’ve known one for over 11 years and another for over 9 years. I met them both in college and we’ve been friends ever since.
Right now they are in Reno and assumed they lost everything.
So don’t try and pull this, “you don’t care stuff”.
Maybe I was a bit harsh.
But this is why some of us are small gov’t people. The Federal Gov’t shouldn’t be the answer to everything.
This is why I’m so hard on the Local gov’t.
If a Tornado hits here in IL, I’m concerned about what my local officials will be doing. You can’t expect Federal help right away.
I really don’t know how you can expect the Feds to react immediately. The Govenor is right there and was given authority a day prior to the storm hitting, and didn’t do squat.
Frankly, I don’t care if people blame Bush, he’s not running for anything. But I would be pissed at my Gov/Mayor if I lived in there and they had Buses to evacuate people and didn’t! Or didn’t provide food/water/bathrooms/etc at the safety points like the SuperDome.
NO was below sea level! That is no secret. And the levees couldn’t stand higher then a CAT 3, that was also no secret.
A NO paper even had stories earlier in the summer about how NO would be doomed if a powerful hurricane hit and how “people would be on their own”. I believe the Mayor even said that.
This won’t cost Bush or the Reps anything politically.
If anything it make the Dems look terrible.
Compare Jeb’s reation to 3 straight hurricanes in FL last year to the LA Gov. And Compare how Guilliani took charge in NY.
The sad thing is the Dems have no ability to lead and no leaders.
TIP: What the Gov should have done was hold press conferences and been ordering people around, instead they played this helpless blame game and opened the door for Bush to ride in, hog air time, say he’s now in charge, the Feds are here, blah blah blah. The Dems have lost there chance to have a “hero” step forward.
This will have liitle to no effect in 2006, what may have an effect is the hurricanes that take place NEXT year, and if the response is good it makes Bush look like a hero for pushing through “sweeping changes”, blah blah blah.
I’ve said this many times, people don’t vote against things, they vote for things. With no alternatives to anything they’ll keep losing.
On trust me…the fallout from this ordeal is long from over, and the voters of the South will not forget the administration and party that left them to dry for 4 days - I guess you underestimate the South. And you can just keep on blaming local officals for everyone dying in NO if that helps you get past this. But FEMA - in case you don’t know what that stands for, www.fema.gov is the body responsible to react to national disasters. And I didn’t think FEMA would have people on teh way the next day…although it is their orgainizations entire mission to plan for such things and have plans ready, esp. when they knew the storm was coming, to have a much more organized response. But come on you are saying that not having truck rolls until 4 days after the storm passed is acceptable?
Sigh~ Okay, DM. I did what you asked. I took a step back and thought hard on it.
No, it strikes very close to home.
Two of my best friends live (well lived in) NO. I’ve known one for over 11 years and another for over 9 years. I met them both in college and we’ve been friends ever since.
Right now they are in Reno and assumed they lost everything.
I am glad your friends are okay.
So don’t try and pull this, “you don’t care stuff”.
Well,…… I do believe you care. Yet, I also believe that many on a political level wish to continually pass the blame and pass the buck. Something I see on both sides of the fence but for me, more so from the right.
Maybe I was a bit harsh.
In a time of crisis, everybody can get harsh, buddy. That’s why it is a crisis. :wink:
But this is why some of us are small gov’t people. The Federal Gov’t shouldn’t be the answer to everything.
For the most part I agree. However, a disaster of this magnitude definitely requires Federal intervention especially for a financially poverished state like Louisiana.
If a Tornado hits here in IL, I’m concerned about what my local officials will be doing. You can’t expect Federal help right away.
Yes, but not 3 DAYS later either.
I really don’t know how you can expect the Feds to react immediately. The Govenor is right there and was given authority a day prior to the storm hitting, and didn’t do squat.
It will take some time to see who did squat and who didn’t. The situation is still chaotic. Now, I am not going to defend the governor of her actions for I have not seen much coverage of her. So far the only thing that I see she did wrong was order the arrests of anyone looting. Who cares about the looting? It shouldn’t of been a priority. But I WILL defend the Mayor. This man has been working his ass off during the process of losing his own home. He set his differences aside and has been working closely, with rescue crews and officials as well as Bush himself to get his people to safe areas and get them the treatment they need.
Frankly, I don’t care if people blame Bush, he’s not running for anything.
Thank sweet jesus.
But I would be pissed at my Gov/Mayor if I lived in there and they had Buses to evacuate people and didn’t! Or didn’t provide food/water/bathrooms/etc at the safety points like the SuperDome.
This is a good point that I would be willing to concede. Yet for three days, you have the world watching these people sitting there and noone stepping in. Why? To prove a point? To say what? “You f*cked up and here is a 3 day punishment for it?”
NO was below sea level! That is no secret. And the levees couldn’t stand higher then a CAT 3, that was also no secret.
A NO paper even had stories earlier in the summer about how NO would be doomed if a powerful hurricane hit and how “people would be on their own”. I believe the Mayor even said that.
Well, here is something that IS in the Pres’s ballpark. HE PULLED THE FUNDING TO REINFORCE THOSE LEVEES!
This won’t cost Bush or the Reps anything politically.
If anything it make the Dems look terrible.
A bold statement. If this happened under Clinton’s watch, I know for a fact you would not sing this tune about “the Federal gov is off the hook”
Compare Jeb’s reation to 3 straight hurricanes in FL last year to the LA Gov.
This is because they called the state of emergency before hand like they did in LA but he got federal help IMMEDIATELY.
And Compare how Guilliani took charge in NY.
There are a couple of factors that contribute to this. NY is an economic icon. Therefore, the Federal government will take action more quickly. Also, “the U.S.A was under attack by terrorists” which also leads to Federal intervention.
The sad thing is the Dems have no ability to lead and no leaders.
Another bold thing to say, when all this death and destruction with war and natural disasters are under the watch of Republicans. :-?
TIP: What the Gov should have done was hold press conferences and been ordering people around, instead they played this helpless blame game and opened the door for Bush to ride in, hog air time, say he’s now in charge, the Feds are here, blah blah blah. The Dems have lost there chance to have a “hero” step forward.
I don’t see any Rep heroes, do you???
, what may have an effect is the hurricanes that take place NEXT year, and if the response is good it makes Bush look like a hero for pushing through “sweeping changes”, blah blah blah.
you bet your a$$ it will…. people are suckers like that. But I bet that won’t change the minds of those in affected in this situation, however.
I’ve said this many times, people don’t vote against things, they vote for things. With no alternatives to anything they’ll keep losing.
I guess then gay marraige will eventually prevail. Since they are voting FOR it. Those who vote against are screwed. :lol:
I guess then gay marraige will eventually prevail. Since they are voting FOR it. Those who vote against are screwed.
LOL!!!
Touche.
:D
EDIT:
I’m too lazy to type. And no you haven’t really said all of these but it is a good read:
http://www.americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=4797
EDIT 2:
About Levees
http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewNation.asp?Page=\Nation\archive\200509\NAT20050907a.html
Link not working that great. Just click “Full Story”
Within a few months;
Almond farmers will point their fingers at the govm’t for the failure of bees to polinate their groves, resulting in massive crop losses.
Grain farmers in the midWest will point their fingers at the govm’t for the drought causing massive crop losses and unemployment.
NW employees and passengers will point their fingers at the govm’t for the mechanic’s strike causing massive delays pushing their company to bankruptcy.
I do not see how any of this finger pointing helps any of the people in need. Not only that, how much have the office holding finger pointers really given?
Did any of these finger pointers alert FEMA, Bush, the coast guard, local Nat’l guards, etc… prior to the levee failures?
Or did they sit and wait for the second day of bad news reports, to pounce on the Bush administration? This could have given them lots of political capital. Then they can play the vote divider card to win the poor blacks in the next election.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/katrina/katrina_timeline.html
Pres Bush declared a state of emergency the day before the levees broke. This was the day of Katrina’s LA landfall.
Bush cut his vacation short the following day when the levees broke.
He didn’t lift a finger when it hit Florida.
I don’t see victoms there blaming him.
Perhaps there was an order given to plant bombs in the levee to blow it apart.
Maybe that levee was was used for stealth bomber target practice.
It was part of his “secret” plan to drown out the black Al Queda cells there. Oh yeah, NOLA citizens harboring the terrorists are not with us, so they are against us…
@stuka:
Okay, Jen, let’s suppose for a moment that you are right. That the local government is at fault here. So the rest of us just stood by and watched it happen live on the news? I guess JW just sat on his a$$ and waited for the state of emergency call. Boy, what a savior.
I am just pointing out the stupidity of your arguments. From the war,… to local politics…. to this disaster… dang girl, do you have anything good going on in your head? Or is it just a bunch of passing blames, bringing up phony info without links and not even having the decency of take a step back and truly understand what has happened to these people. Thousands died and all you can manage to say is how it compares to Iraq and why you think there are so many similarities. This is not an insurgency. Those people in N.O. aren’t fighting an occupation. Just shut up and think first. All you care about is defending your views. Go back to your church and beg forgiveness if you think it will help. Do something. Jeez.
Stuka, you obviously are ignorant of the laws. The federal government is NOT PERMITTED to supply aid in any form to a state unless the state specifically asks for it. It was designed that way to prohibit empire building here at home. So, while the governoress was out playing golf, her people languished while the feds awaited permission to come help.
@stuka:
First off, the state and local governments made the state of emergency call PRIOR to when Katrina hit. It was on all the news channels or were you sleeping during that time?
Second, when a state declares a state of emergency, that means they are calling for federal aid. Did it come? NO.
You people who blame the mayor and governor of not doing what was evidently done on requesting help makes you look like morons yourselves. Are you saying that the President is free of helping one of the states that he is responsible for?
Also for years, the state of Louisiana have been requesting funds for levee repairs for YEARS. A short while back, they finally got the grant for reinforcing those levies. Shortly after that, your bitchboy Bush pulled the money back for the war effort. Yeah, he is as innocent as a choir boy.
So why was the city in bad shape, you ask? Because they were requesting help from a dumbass Administration who follow personal agendas.
The problem with your niavette is that you fail to realize that ultimately it is the Govenor and Mayor who are responsible, not the President. He has to take care of the nation, they have to take care of a handful of people.
BTW, saying it’s disaster on television is NOT officially declaring it into law allowing for full federal aid to be unleashed on the state which would have included Air Cav evacuations, bus and train evacuations, reinforcement of the levvies from the Army Corps of Engineers, stock piles of food, medicine and clothing to be air dropped in, etc.
Now they ahve to clean up afterwards because it is only NOW that the morons in charge have asked for assistance from the feds.
On trust me…the fallout from this ordeal is long from over, and the voters of the South will not forget the administration and party that left them to dry for 4 days - I guess you underestimate the South. And you can just keep on blaming local officals for everyone dying in NO if that helps you get past this. But FEMA - in case you don’t know what that stands for, www.fema.gov is the body responsible to react to national disasters. And I didn’t think FEMA would have people on teh way the next day…although it is their orgainizations entire mission to plan for such things and have plans ready, esp. when they knew the storm was coming, to have a much more organized response. But come on you are saying that not having truck rolls until 4 days after the storm passed is acceptable?
So this means their govenor and mayor will be replaced with human beings? Good! Obviously the people in power down there now are only in it for their own personal glory and if that hurts the population then so be it.
A great president once said that the Government is not the solution to our problems but rather the Government was our problems.
With that said, the mayor and govenor should have been evacuating people the week before the storm when it was confirmed that they would be hit with a class 5 hurricane.
Furthermore, they had funds set aside from special taxes specifically TO evacuate in teh case of a storm or volcano or other natural disaster that could potentially have destroyed their city, a fund they did not use as intended.
Furthermore, they had numerous plans to evacuate the city, none of which were implemented.
Furthermore, the leaders of that state and city where no where to be found during the storm while their people huddled in terror in the superdome.
Furthermore, the president - being barred by law - could only stand by helplessly and watch as citizens died because of the closed mindedness of the local politicians.
Furthermore, the levvies were never designed correctly and it had been pointed out for decades that they wouldn’t withstand waves higher then a few feet. This should have been corrected by the city, the county and the state, not passed on to the next generation so local politicians could line their pockets with gold.
This is EXACTLY why the states should be self sufficient and the feds should be completely crippled domestically. Why didn’t LA call on MS or GA for help? TN and KY are close by too they could have helped evacuate just as well as Washington DC could ever have. But no, you look at a disaster like this and blame the President, and it doesn’t matter WHO the president is, he’s the big name, he gets blamed, even when he has nothing to do with it and couldnt avoid or impact it if he wanted too.
