Govt. Response to Katrina

[haxorboy]

Being one in a million and taking 4 days for stuff to happen are unrelated. It’s not about what wasn’t done before hand, it was the fact that no one seemed to want to get moving toward helping until the president left his vacation early and went down there. Even the remaining people at the White House Friday afternoon were noticing how much more intraoffice traffic was generated from HLS and FEMA knowing the President would be down there…this was a breakdown and a failure of an organization whose single mission in this country is to plan, prepare and recover after disasters like this. Do you feel comfortable with FEMA and HLS now and trust them to organize the chaos after a terrorist blows up a football stadium on a Sunday? Or sets off a dirty nuke in Times Square? These situations are pretty extreme but have probably been planned and rehearsed a bit…but a freaking hurricane that we had plenty of advanced notice for and have had a few hit our coasts before caught us with our pants down and can just be chalked up to bureaucratic red tape, a shurg of the shoulders and a business as usual mentality is unacceptable. As Americans all of us should be outraged that there are not only still people trapped and dying down there 8 days after the storm but there is still chaos and confusion with the movement of the people out of temporary shelter areas.

Oh and next time you throw out a “want to say Jen’s right but not talk about it in this thread” you might want to side with her on something that won’t leave more people dead then the wonderful conflict in Iraq, as I can’t leave any smiley faces surrounding this point and am not sure how you could have either.

[Meijing]

I was away on holydays in Croatia and hardly got any new, but when I heard “New Orleans” and “hurricane” I knew exactly what had happened, because I read about it in 2001.
http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=00060286-CB58-1315-8B5883414B7F0000

I would have voted criminal if not FEMA would have been blamed but the Bush administration. In early 2001 FEMA warned the Bush administration of three major threads and one those was the flooding of New Orleans by a huricane. The other two were a terrorist attack in New York and a earthquake iin California. The Bush adiminstration reacted by cutting the funds for flood control.
http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,372455,00.html

[stuka pilot]

@Jennifer:

We’re loosing the war in New Orleans and should retreat. They obviously don’t want us there, insurgents are firing on our helicopters….

I suppose this is a “point” that is needs to be addressed?

I didn’t know New Orleans had WMD’s. I didn’t know that N.O. had a dictator. I didn’t know that we lied to get into N.O. so that we could change its regime.

Dumb thing to say. Dumb comparison. Actually, quite sick and very ill-mannered thing to say at this time when so many Americans need help. You disgust me, Jen. Then again, I am not surprised. Damn… why couldn’t you have been living there…?

[haxorboy]

I would have voted criminal if not FEMA would have been blamed but the Bush administration. In early 2001 FEMA warned the Bush administration of three major threads and one those was the flooding of New Orleans by a huricane. The other two were a terrorist attack in New York and a earthquake iin California. The Bush adiminstration reacted by cutting the funds for flood control.
http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,372455,00.html

I was looking for a US article about this but glad you found something…under president Clinton FEMA was alot different and had alot more control. I’m not saying that should Clinton been in office this tragedy would have been avoided, I’m just saying FEMA was on it’s own then. Now that it is under HLS it seems it didn’t get as much attention and focus and we shifted all attention to HLS. I hope after we get those states back in order we turn our attention to both programs and get our ducks in a row…hurricane season is not over yet kids.

[Jennifer]

A) We lost more American lives in New Orleans this month then in Iraq - so obviously we are loosing the war against the insurgents there. (Just pointing out how stupid the Iraq arguements are.)

B) I believe, and I could be wrong here, but didn’t they do extensive studies on what would happen to the sinking New Orleans if it were ever hit with a volcano and or just strong winds causing spill overs from the lake over the artificial levvies? It’s not like they were ignorant of the dangers (that is the government) they should have been completely evacuated days before the hurricane hit and had 0 human casualties.

[Janus1]

looting for necessities is acceptable, and the law enforcement there makes that distinction as well
but looting for electronics, for example, is straight up stealing. desperate my ass, there is no reason to go out and “loot” a tv. but going to a food store and stealing some clean, bottled water and canned foods so u can live, is perfectly acceptable in the devastated areas.

[Guest]

im thinking that given the warning they had, the state should have attempted to evacuate people, or call out the national gaurd.

[cystic crypt]

what amazes me is that The Tragically Hip had long ago predicted this . . .

bourbon blues on the stree,
loose and complete under skies all smokey blue-green
i can’t forsake a dixie dead-shake so we danced the sidewalk clean
my memory is muddy, what’s this river that i’m in? new orleans is sinking man and i don’t wanna swim

colonel tom. what’s wrong? what’s going on? you can tie yourself up for a deal
he said, “hey north you’re south shut you big mouth, you gotta do what you feel is real”
ain’t got no picture postcards, ain’t got no souvenirs my baby, she don’t know me when I’m thinking bout those years

pale as a light bulb
hanging on a wire
sucking up to someone just to stoke the fire
picking out the highlights of the scenery
saw a little cloud that looked a little like me

i had my hands in the river my feet back up on the banks looked up to the lord above and said, “hey man thanks”
sometimes i feel so good, i gotta scream she said gordie baby i know exactly what you mean she said, she said, i swear to god she said…

my memory is muddy what’s this river that i’m in? new orleans is sinking mand and i don’t wanna swim . . .

[Jennifer]

@Janus1:

looting for necessities is acceptable, and the law enforcement there makes that distinction as well
but looting for electronics, for example, is straight up stealing. desperate my a**, there is no reason to go out and “loot” a tv. but going to a food store and stealing some clean, bottled water and canned foods so u can live, is perfectly acceptable in the devastated areas.

I totally agree. However, an honest person would take note of the cost of the items and return after order has been restored and reimburse the shop keeper.

[Guest]

@Jennifer:

…It’s not like they were ignorant of the dangers (that is the government) they should have been completely evacuated days before the hurricane hit and had 0 human casualties.

Who is the the “they” that is not the government but should have evacuated the city? …
more importantly: who should have paid for it?

Only rich people can afford a weak state.

[Jennifer]

@F_alk:

@Jennifer:

…It’s not like they were ignorant of the dangers (that is the government) they should have been completely evacuated days before the hurricane hit and had 0 human casualties.

Who is the the “they” that is not the government but should have evacuated the city? …
more importantly: who should have paid for it?

Only rich people can afford a weak state.

The government WAS informed of the potential disasters. They DID have a slush fund set aside in trust specifically to handle this type of disaster. They DID have plenty of warning to evacuate 100% of the population including the homeless. They CHOSE to tell everyone to walk to the Superdome and then they CHOSE to charge admission so only the financially stable could afford at least that small bit of protection from the wind and rain, F_alk.

Then, to make matters even WORSE, the Govenor of the great state of Louisianna, CHOSE not to declare an emergency for days after the event which kept the door closed on the federal government from sending any form of aid. This non-action forced the American Red Cross and other non-governmental agencies to bear the brunt of the disaster and prohibitted federal units - trained and experienced in these matters - from comming to their aid with full medical teams, search teams, etc. Many of the teams down there NOW are the same ones that earned their stripes in 9/11, but they could have been there DAYS ago had the govenor just got off her fat little duff and put down the twinky so she could call for help.

I am so tempted to blame this on the political parties in control down there, but I don’t even think the party could be blamed for this. This is shear “good ol’ boy” crap followed by greed and ignorance. I hope heads roll for this, I really do, and I hope it starts with that assinine govenor of theirs followed by that idiot mayor.

[Guest]

Ah ok … i misunderstood your fist posting on this.

Still:@Jennifer:

…then they CHOSE to charge admission so only the financially stable could afford at least that small bit of protection from the wind and rain

If you look up, last time you said this it was only a rumor you heard. Now you sell it as a fact.

They didn’t charge the people to get into the dome.

[Jennifer]

You’re right. It’s still rumor because I havn’t seen any factual evidence, only blogs and heresay from others. But it doesn’t exactly strike me as something that’s completely out of character for the human race, so at least it’s plausible.

[stuka pilot]

Okay, Jen, let’s suppose for a moment that you are right. That the local government is at fault here. So the rest of us just stood by and watched it happen live on the news? I guess JW just sat on his a$$ and waited for the state of emergency call. Boy, what a savior.

I am just pointing out the stupidity of your arguments. From the war,… to local politics…. to this disaster… dang girl, do you have anything good going on in your head? Or is it just a bunch of passing blames, bringing up phony info without links and not even having the decency of take a step back and truly understand what has happened to these people. Thousands died and all you can manage to say is how it compares to Iraq and why you think there are so many similarities. This is not an insurgency. Those people in N.O. aren’t fighting an occupation. Just shut up and think first. All you care about is defending your views. Go back to your church and beg forgiveness if you think it will help. Do something. Jeez.

[The Hydra]

Ill never understand why some people stick by our A-hole president,no matter what…He could kill an infant (in fact he has,in Iraq)and people will back him up,making excuses for him…This president will go down as the worst ever.When there is a crisis of this magnitude,when people are looking for a leader,the president must rise to the occasion,putting all politics behind him and helping those in need.How? By taking charge of the situation immediately and by-passing all of the red tape.I am so ashamed of this little man…He embarrasses and sickens me…I think he is the anti-christ :evil: …and im not joking…

[stuka pilot]

Yeah, Hydra, I know what you mean. If he spit blood on a baby in broad day light, people would still defend him.

And by the way, Jen. A state of emergency was declared BEFORE the hurricane hit. Looks like you got caught in a lie yet again.

Read for yourself: http://www.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/08/28/hurricane.katrina/

Then apologize.

[DarthMaximus]

Yes, this shows that Bush was on top of it and the Gov of LA failed to act.

Bush Declared a State of Emergency on Late Sat or Early Sun, I believe, and urged a Manditory Evacuation.

This gives the Govenor the power to ENFORCE this. However, she did not issue the Manditory evacuation order until 12 hrs later.

And then did nothing to enforce it.

I believe Jen is correct, when she says the Govenor didn’t “officially” approve the disaster area until a day or 2 after the storm.

Here’s how it works.

(A storm hits!)

Feds issue - Federal Disaster Area.
NOW
The Gov of said state has the power to do all sorts of things but must first of course approve the order of the Feds (that it is a disaster area)
NOW
The STATE (Read GOV) has the power to issue evacuation warnings, forcibly remove people if necessary, mobilize the National Guard Etc.

Just because a Pres says “Fed disaster area” doesn’t mean the Army comes running in. It grants the Governor more power who in turn MUST ASK THE FEDS to get involved.

That’s what it does. All Bush did was say if you need the FED we are here, but the Gov failed to use her power to get the ball rolling or in turn ask for the Fed to step in. She didn’t until a day after the storm, it might have even been Wed. by that time

You should be asking how did the local gov fail?

Why did they not use all those school buses (that were flooded, I’m sure you’ve seen the pic), to evacuate people?

That is officially stated in the LA guide for Hurricanes and what should be done.

Why did the MAyor and Gov not enforce the Mandatory Evacuation that was give 24 hrs befor the storm hit?

Why did they not supply the SuperDome with food, water, extra toilets? They had several days warning of a Cat 5 warning. I remember hear Cat five as early as Sat. That gives at least 2 days.

Why no security at the Superdome? Again this wasn’t a surprise storm.

Why not mobilize the NG prior to the storm?

I find it equally as sickening that some of you hate Bush so much that it turns you into utter morons.

You actually argueing that Bush could have rode in and in one foul swoop wisked everyone away prior to the storm???

As I’ve said what the heck were the local officials doing???
That is why we have Govenors and state governements!!!

If you want the Feds to do everything there is no point to State Gov’t.

Please take a step back and actually think.

By the way check the Murder Rate of NO prior to Katrina. It isn’t a very safe place to live regardless.

Why was the city in such bad shape? Because they have their own Democratic machine that cares nothing for the people.

[stuka pilot]

First off, the state and local governments made the state of emergency call PRIOR to when Katrina hit. It was on all the news channels or were you sleeping during that time?

Second, when a state declares a state of emergency, that means they are calling for federal aid. Did it come? NO.

You people who blame the mayor and governor of not doing what was evidently done on requesting help makes you look like morons yourselves. Are you saying that the President is free of helping one of the states that he is responsible for?

Also for years, the state of Louisiana have been requesting funds for levee repairs for YEARS. A short while back, they finally got the grant for reinforcing those levies. Shortly after that, your bitchboy Bush pulled the money back for the war effort. Yeah, he is as innocent as a choir boy.

So why was the city in bad shape, you ask? Because they were requesting help from a dumbass Administration who follow personal agendas.

[haxorboy]

As I’ve said what the heck were the local officials doing???

Watching their houses float away and hope their loved ones and neighbors didn’t die…

And if you can’t take a step back for one moment and realize there was a lack of response on epic proportions from the AGENCIES WHOSE ENTIRE MAKEUP IS TO REACT DURING NATURAL DISASTERS AND NATIONAL CRISIS then you are just blinded by thinking these are someone personal attacks on Dubya and there for you need to make vague racial references and lose sight of the fact that THERE ARE STILL PEOPLE DYING DOWN THERE AND 10’S OF THOUSANDS THAT LOST EVERYTHING THEY HAD.

It’s all well and good to take pot shots at the Gov. of Louisana ( is it because she is a women AND Democrat I wonder? ) and pin the responsiblity of it taking 4 days for an organized response from other states resources and agencies ( FEMA’s job ) to get relief and supplies into the area, and secure the area ( HLS job ) as how can you call upon local National Guard troops if they are trying to save their families and get out of the way?

Everyday I am just shocked and amazed at the lack of compassion of far leaning right wing Republican’s trying to someone save face and deflect blame for all this…I don’t remember reading any newspaper articles stating George Bush is responsible for New Orleans flooding - Kanye West doesn’t count, he is just mad in general. Do you know HLS only Sunday setup a emergency triage helpdesk in the Eisenhower Executive Office to help handle the flood of media questions? How would I know this…I helped today fix the giant mess they had in that room and looked at the schedule of people and tickets opened for computers to be live in that room. You can defend Bush all you want as this is not his problem directly, his administration under him failed and failed the entire United States badly.

But since this is in the South, and mainly a “crime riddled area” this doesn’t strike home to some of you and you can just dismiss it and go about your business hate mongering the Democrat’s every chance you get. Enjoy your time…as againeven though this wasn’t Dubya’s blunder himself, this certainly cost him alot of political capital and that of his party come election time…

[DarthMaximus]

No, it strikes very close to home.

Two of my best friends live (well lived in) NO. I’ve known one for over 11 years and another for over 9 years. I met them both in college and we’ve been friends ever since.

Right now they are in Reno and assumed they lost everything.

So don’t try and pull this, “you don’t care stuff”.

Maybe I was a bit harsh.

But this is why some of us are small gov’t people. The Federal Gov’t shouldn’t be the answer to everything.

This is why I’m so hard on the Local gov’t.

If a Tornado hits here in IL, I’m concerned about what my local officials will be doing. You can’t expect Federal help right away.

I really don’t know how you can expect the Feds to react immediately. The Govenor is right there and was given authority a day prior to the storm hitting, and didn’t do squat.

Frankly, I don’t care if people blame Bush, he’s not running for anything. But I would be pissed at my Gov/Mayor if I lived in there and they had Buses to evacuate people and didn’t! Or didn’t provide food/water/bathrooms/etc at the safety points like the SuperDome.

NO was below sea level! That is no secret. And the levees couldn’t stand higher then a CAT 3, that was also no secret.

A NO paper even had stories earlier in the summer about how NO would be doomed if a powerful hurricane hit and how “people would be on their own”. I believe the Mayor even said that.

This won’t cost Bush or the Reps anything politically.
If anything it make the Dems look terrible.
Compare Jeb’s reation to 3 straight hurricanes in FL last year to the LA Gov. And Compare how Guilliani took charge in NY.

The sad thing is the Dems have no ability to lead and no leaders.

TIP: What the Gov should have done was hold press conferences and been ordering people around, instead they played this helpless blame game and opened the door for Bush to ride in, hog air time, say he’s now in charge, the Feds are here, blah blah blah. The Dems have lost there chance to have a “hero” step forward.

This will have liitle to no effect in 2006, what may have an effect is the hurricanes that take place NEXT year, and if the response is good it makes Bush look like a hero for pushing through “sweeping changes”, blah blah blah.

I’ve said this many times, people don’t vote against things, they vote for things. With no alternatives to anything they’ll keep losing.