XDAP Final… eh, i mean, Semifinal - Allweneedishank vs. TeamBoldDutch

[Hank13]

Good game gentlemen.

[lexgreat]

Congratulations Hank and AWN!

[boldfresh]

@alexgreat:

Congratulations Hank and AWN!

ok cow, right on time for your final match to begin Nov 1.  good luck to all, should be fun to watch for at least a few rounds.  :wink:

[dutchmand]

Hank and AWN! Congratulation gentlemen!  A very fine match.  You are both very skilled players and played an excellent game.  Good luck to you in the final.

[Gargantua]

Alright,

I’ll start digging the graves here…  onto the FINAL MATCH gentleman!

[Guest]

@Boldfresh:

GG gentlemen - it was a pleasure to play you. �egypt held with 3 ftrs.

the 10 japanese units that crossed over on the final turn were the difference.

if you are interested, we can begin a discussion by PM regarding the elements of this game. �i know everyone is going to question the attacking of the neutrals, which i agree in hindsight was a mistake. �i have also come to believe that our approach in the pacific was likely not optimal - hank held on to everything for far too long. �my biggest worry was if hank simply took his entire japanese airforce and flew it west to europe the game could have been over many turns ago.

even better than debating the how, why, and what if’s of this game would be for me to get some high quality games in with either of you guys - AWN would you be interested in a league or nonleague game wherein there will of course be nothing but game posts (unless cow chimes in, which i doubt he will).

CONGRATULATIONS TO THE VICTORS, you for sure earned my respect. �Thank you for the game. �I apologize for my tournament persona if it offended anyone, as i said, i just enjoy playing the role sometimes. �for those that enjoy it i’m happy to do it (cow) for those who don’t, i can turn it off completely (just ask Karl).

Now, can i please get some high level competition to test my theories on broken victory conditions?

Cheers

You threw away the game when you declared war upon the true neutrals without any way to gain from that. you gave the Axis free troops and IPC and gained no IPCs yourself after declaring war. From my perspective there was no reason to declare war upon the true neutrals. I haven�t played AA for very long so I might be missing something. The thing is. The only time you declare war upon the true neutrals is when you can you get Turkey this way and also keep it this way. Spain might be a good second. Other then that you have South America, which is interesting as its 6 more ipcs, but the strategic value of Spain and Turkey generaly outweighs that. You can keep complaining about those planes, but the truth is that you lost the game the moment you declared war upon the true neutrals.

[boldfresh]

@Soulblighter:

@Boldfresh:

GG gentlemen - it was a pleasure to play you. �egypt held with 3 ftrs.

the 10 japanese units that crossed over on the final turn were the difference.

if you are interested, we can begin a discussion by PM regarding the elements of this game. �i know everyone is going to question the attacking of the neutrals, which i agree in hindsight was a mistake. �i have also come to believe that our approach in the pacific was likely not optimal - hank held on to everything for far too long. �my biggest worry was if hank simply took his entire japanese airforce and flew it west to europe the game could have been over many turns ago.

even better than debating the how, why, and what if’s of this game would be for me to get some high quality games in with either of you guys - AWN would you be interested in a league or nonleague game wherein there will of course be nothing but game posts (unless cow chimes in, which i doubt he will).

CONGRATULATIONS TO THE VICTORS, you for sure earned my respect. �Thank you for the game. �I apologize for my tournament persona if it offended anyone, as i said, i just enjoy playing the role sometimes. �for those that enjoy it i’m happy to do it (cow) for those who don’t, i can turn it off completely (just ask Karl).

Now, can i please get some high level competition to test my theories on broken victory conditions?

Cheers

You threw away the game when you declared war upon the true neutrals without any way to gain from that. you gave the Axis free troops and IPC and gained no IPCs yourself after declaring war. From my perspective there was no reason to declare war upon the true neutrals. I haven�t played AA for very long so I might be missing something. The thing is. The only time you declare war upon the true neutrals is when you can you get Turkey this way and also keep it this way. Spain might be a good second. Other then that you have South America, which is interesting as its 6 more ipcs, but the strategic value of Spain and Turkey generaly outweighs that. You can keep complaining about those planes, but the truth is that you lost the game the moment you declared war upon the true neutrals.

the reason we declared war on the neutrals is that one tac was a giant swing on moscow.  you wouldn’t believe it, but the G7 attack went from an 80+% win in LL to a 20% win or something like that.  i thought that if AWN didn’t get moscow on G7, then by the time he got it it would not matter any more.

however, a few more turns of the japanese airforce becoming a behemoth showed me that even if we had not attacked the neutrals and given the extra infantry, the japanese could have vacated the pacific and there was no way the allies could have held london and egypt.  moscow and volgo were going to fall.

[allweneedislove]

thanks for the game guys. it was fun.

i was impressed with your mass carrier strategy. at first i thought it was a poor decision, but once you got enough planes to land on all the carriers it was a very effective and flexible.

[boldfresh]

personally, i think the mass carriers strategy is what created the crossover possibility for japan - too slow to develop, so japan’s income stayed too high for too long.  a slowly developing game allowing japan to pump out so much air creates the devastating crossover possibility i was referring to.  it wouldn’t if japan spent all it’s money on fleet, but when it is building 3 aircraft a round, it creates the imbalance possibility of the japanese AF swooping into europe as a massively overpowered wrecking ball/impenetrable defensive shield.  and at no penalty to the overall victory connditions as far as the allies are concerned.  it doesn’t matter even if tokyo falls if the wrecking ball caused the europe victory, which it easily can.

problem is, i don’t know a much better strategy to come at japan than we employed.  i know it could be better, but i don’t know if it could be ENOUGH better to reach a tipping point in the pacific early enough.    just some thoughts, please feel free to enlighten me.

[JDOW]

@Boldfresh:

GG gentlemen - it was a pleasure to play you.  egypt held with 3 ftrs.

the 10 japanese units that crossed over on the final turn were the difference.

if you are interested, we can begin a discussion by PM regarding the elements of this game.  i know everyone is going to question the attacking of the neutrals, which i agree in hindsight was a mistake.  i have also come to believe that our approach in the pacific was likely not optimal - hank held on to everything for far too long.  my biggest worry was if hank simply took his entire japanese airforce and flew it west to europe the game could have been over many turns ago.

even better than debating the how, why, and what if’s of this game would be for me to get some high quality games in with either of you guys - AWN would you be interested in a league or nonleague game wherein there will of course be nothing but game posts (unless cow chimes in, which i doubt he will).

CONGRATULATIONS TO THE VICTORS, you for sure earned my respect.  Thank you for the game.  I apologize for my tournament persona if it offended anyone, as i said, i just enjoy playing the role sometimes.  for those that enjoy it i’m happy to do it (cow) for those who don’t, i can turn it off completely (just ask Karl).

Now, can i please get some high level competition to test my theories on broken victory conditions?

Cheers

Nice post and congratulations to allweneedislove and hank!

Would be fun to see Bold playing axis vs Allweneedislove playing the Allies with the same bid as in this game, hopefully a league game :)

[JDOW]

@Boldfresh:

problem is, i don’t know a much better strategy to come at japan than we employed.  i know it could be better, but i don’t know if it could be ENOUGH better to reach a tipping point in the pacific early enough.    just some thoughts, please feel free to enlighten me.

I of course am far away from having an answer on that but as we discussed yesterday I was wondering if a KFJ could be faster and more painful for Japan if directed from Caroline Islands with constantly threatening sz6 but also harass the money islands. This could imo also give Anzac more chances to have an impact.
However the sz6 containment of course gave the option to get the Russians into play which was also annoying, but maybe not annoying enough than losing the money islands, who knows^^

Plus: In case Japan goes a lot of air and not so much fleet, more subs could be an answer.
But as usual the devil lies in the detail and any approach stands and falls by the execution.

We did not even discuss yet the fall of India and if that was inevitable and how the game would have gone with India in the game for longer.