XDAP Final… eh, i mean, Semifinal - Allweneedishank vs. TeamBoldDutch

[boldfresh]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.7

Game History

Round: 15

Purchase Units - Chinese
            Trigger Chinese Loses Burma Road: Chinese has their production frontier changed to: productionChinese_Burma_Road_Closed
            Chinese buy 2 infantry; Remaining resources: 2 PUs;

Combat Move - Chinese
            1 infantry moved from Kiangsi to Hunan
                  Chinese take Hunan from Japanese
            1 infantry moved from Kiangsi to Kwangsi
                  Chinese take Kwangsi from Japanese

Combat - Chinese

Non Combat Move - Chinese
            10 infantry moved from Kiangsi to Kwangtung

Place Units - Chinese
            1 infantry placed in Anhwe
            1 infantry placed in Kiangsu

Turn Complete - Chinese
            Chinese collect 7 PUs; end with 9 PUs total

[boldfresh]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.7

Game History

Round: 15

Purchase Units - British
            British buy 2 fighters and 2 infantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Combat Move - British
            2 fighters moved from United Kingdom to Normandy Bordeaux
            1 transport moved from 109 Sea Zone to 110 Sea Zone
            2 infantry moved from United Kingdom to 110 Sea Zone
            2 infantry moved from 110 Sea Zone to Normandy Bordeaux
            3 infantry moved from Tobruk to 96 Sea Zone
            9 fighters and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Tobruk to Egypt
            1 infantry moved from Union of South Africa to South West Africa
                  British take South West Africa from Italians
            1 infantry moved from Union of South Africa to Mozambique
                  British take Mozambique from Italians
            1 infantry moved from Union of South Africa to Rhodesia
            2 bombers and 3 tactical_bombers moved from Union of South Africa to Belgian Congo
            2 bombers and 3 tactical_bombers moved from Belgian Congo to Anglo Egyptian Sudan
            2 bombers and 3 tactical_bombers moved from Anglo Egyptian Sudan to Egypt
            1 mech_infantry moved from Tobruk to 96 Sea Zone
            3 infantry, 1 mech_infantry and 2 transports moved from 96 Sea Zone to 98 Sea Zone
            3 infantry and 1 mech_infantry moved from 98 Sea Zone to Egypt
            2 battleships and 2 cruisers moved from 96 Sea Zone to 98 Sea Zone
            2 armour moved from Tobruk to Egypt

Combat - British
            Battle in Rhodesia
                British attack with 1 infantry
                Italians defend with 1 mech_infantry
                British win, taking Rhodesia from Italians with 1 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 4
                Casualties for Italians: 1 mech_infantry
            Battle in Normandy Bordeaux
                British attack with 2 fighters and 2 infantry
                Germans defend with 1 factory_minor, 1 harbour and 3 mech_infantrys
                British win, taking Normandy Bordeaux from Germans with 2 fighters and 1 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 9
                Casualties for Germans: 3 mech_infantrys
                Casualties for British: 1 infantry
            Battle in Egypt
                British attack with 2 armour, 2 bombers, 9 fighters, 3 infantry, 1 mech_infantry and 4 tactical_bombers
                Japanese defend with 1 artillery, 7 bombers and 1 infantry; Germans defend with 1 bomber, 5 fighters and 10 tactical_bombers; Italians defend with 2 aaGuns, 1 airfield, 1 factory_minor, 1 fighter and 1 harbour
                Italians win with 3 fighters remaining. Battle score for attacker is 70
                Casualties for Japanese: 1 artillery, 7 bombers and 1 infantry
                Casualties for Germans: 1 bomber, 2 fighters and 10 tactical_bombers
                Casualties for British: 2 armour, 2 bombers, 9 fighters, 3 infantry, 1 mech_infantry and 4 tactical_bombers
                Casualties for Italians: 2 aaGuns and 1 fighter

Non Combat Move - British
            3 carriers, 1 destroyer and 1 transport moved from 96 Sea Zone to 99 Sea Zone
            2 fighters moved from Normandy Bordeaux to United Kingdom
            2 destroyers moved from 109 Sea Zone to 110 Sea Zone

Place Units - British
            2 fighters and 2 infantry placed in United Kingdom

Turn Complete - British
            British collect 28 PUs; end with 28 PUs total

Turn Complete - UK_Pacific

[allweneedislove]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.7

Game History

Round: 15

Purchase Units - Italians
            Italians buy nothing; Remaining resources: 54 PUs;

Combat Move - Italians

Non Combat Move - Italians

Turn Complete - Italians
            Total Cost from Convoy Blockades: 1
                Rolling for Convoy Blockade Damage in 99 Sea Zone. Rolls: 6,5
                Rolling for Convoy Blockade Damage in 98 Sea Zone. Rolls: 1,5,4,4
            Italians collect 33 PUs (1 lost to blockades); end with 87 PUs total
            Objective Italians 4 Control Iraq Or Persia Or Northwest Persia: Italians met a national objective for an additional 6 PUs; end with 93 PUs
            Objective Italians 2 Roman Empire: Italians met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 98 PUs

Territory Summary for Italians :

Evenkiyskiy : 1 flag
    Yakut S.S.R. : 1 flag
    Timguska : 1 flag
    Kazakhstan : 1 flag
    Buryatia : 1 flag, 1 infantry
    Belgian Congo : 1 flag
    Trans-Jordan : 1 flag
    Egypt : 1 flag, 1 airfield, 1 factory_minor and 1 harbour
    Kenya : 1 flag
    Anglo Egyptian Sudan : 1 flag
    Tanganyika Territory : 1 flag
    French Equatorial Africa : 1 flag
    Syria : 1 flag
    Denmark : 1 infantry
    Northern Italy : 2 aaGuns, 2 artilleries, 1 factory_major and 2 infantry
    Southern Italy : 1 airfield, 3 artilleries, 1 factory_minor, 3 fighters, 1 harbour, 5 infantry, 5 mech_infantrys and 1 tactical_bomber
    Karelia : 1 flag, 3 mech_infantrys
    Bessarabia : 1 flag
    Novosibirsk : 1 flag
    Saudi Arabia : 1 flag
    Angola : 1 flag
    Greece : 1 flag
    97 Sea Zone : 1 transport
    Iraq : 1 flag
    81 Sea Zone : 1 transport
    Northwest Persia : 1 flag
    Persia : 1 flag

Production/PUs Summary :

Germans : 60 / 151
    Russians : 10 / 0
    Japanese : 58 / 64
    Americans : 67 / 92
    Chinese : 7 / 9
    British : 28 / 28
    UK_Pacific : 0 / 0
    Italians : 34 / 98
    ANZAC : 10 / 10
    French : 7 / 0
    Dutch : 0 / 0
    Mongolians : 0 / 0
    Neutral_Axis : 0 / 0
    Neutral_Allies : 0 / 0
    Neutral_True : 2 / 0

[boldfresh]

GG gentlemen - it was a pleasure to play you.  egypt held with 3 ftrs.

the 10 japanese units that crossed over on the final turn were the difference.

if you are interested, we can begin a discussion by PM regarding the elements of this game.  i know everyone is going to question the attacking of the neutrals, which i agree in hindsight was a mistake.  i have also come to believe that our approach in the pacific was likely not optimal - hank held on to everything for far too long.  my biggest worry was if hank simply took his entire japanese airforce and flew it west to europe the game could have been over many turns ago.

even better than debating the how, why, and what if’s of this game would be for me to get some high quality games in with either of you guys - AWN would you be interested in a league or nonleague game wherein there will of course be nothing but game posts (unless cow chimes in, which i doubt he will).

CONGRATULATIONS TO THE VICTORS, you for sure earned my respect.  Thank you for the game.  I apologize for my tournament persona if it offended anyone, as i said, i just enjoy playing the role sometimes.  for those that enjoy it i’m happy to do it (cow) for those who don’t, i can turn it off completely (just ask Karl).

Now, can i please get some high level competition to test my theories on broken victory conditions?

Cheers

[boldfresh]

thanks for being willing to continue AWN, but we have no possibility of regaining a victory city prior to G16 so the game is technically over.  several of the moves made recently have all been within the context of the victory conditions so the game went off the rails essentially when japan sent the 10 units over toward egypt.  it’s quite unfortunate because i think there was an incredible amount of great gameplay left in this one if the victory conditions would have been more evolved.

cheers

[Hank13]

Good game gentlemen.

[lexgreat]

Congratulations Hank and AWN!

[boldfresh]

@alexgreat:

Congratulations Hank and AWN!

ok cow, right on time for your final match to begin Nov 1.  good luck to all, should be fun to watch for at least a few rounds.  :wink:

[dutchmand]

Hank and AWN! Congratulation gentlemen!  A very fine match.  You are both very skilled players and played an excellent game.  Good luck to you in the final.

[Gargantua]

Alright,

I’ll start digging the graves here…  onto the FINAL MATCH gentleman!

[Guest]

@Boldfresh:

GG gentlemen - it was a pleasure to play you. �egypt held with 3 ftrs.

the 10 japanese units that crossed over on the final turn were the difference.

if you are interested, we can begin a discussion by PM regarding the elements of this game. �i know everyone is going to question the attacking of the neutrals, which i agree in hindsight was a mistake. �i have also come to believe that our approach in the pacific was likely not optimal - hank held on to everything for far too long. �my biggest worry was if hank simply took his entire japanese airforce and flew it west to europe the game could have been over many turns ago.

even better than debating the how, why, and what if’s of this game would be for me to get some high quality games in with either of you guys - AWN would you be interested in a league or nonleague game wherein there will of course be nothing but game posts (unless cow chimes in, which i doubt he will).

CONGRATULATIONS TO THE VICTORS, you for sure earned my respect. �Thank you for the game. �I apologize for my tournament persona if it offended anyone, as i said, i just enjoy playing the role sometimes. �for those that enjoy it i’m happy to do it (cow) for those who don’t, i can turn it off completely (just ask Karl).

Now, can i please get some high level competition to test my theories on broken victory conditions?

Cheers

You threw away the game when you declared war upon the true neutrals without any way to gain from that. you gave the Axis free troops and IPC and gained no IPCs yourself after declaring war. From my perspective there was no reason to declare war upon the true neutrals. I haven�t played AA for very long so I might be missing something. The thing is. The only time you declare war upon the true neutrals is when you can you get Turkey this way and also keep it this way. Spain might be a good second. Other then that you have South America, which is interesting as its 6 more ipcs, but the strategic value of Spain and Turkey generaly outweighs that. You can keep complaining about those planes, but the truth is that you lost the game the moment you declared war upon the true neutrals.

[boldfresh]

@Soulblighter:

@Boldfresh:

GG gentlemen - it was a pleasure to play you. �egypt held with 3 ftrs.

the 10 japanese units that crossed over on the final turn were the difference.

if you are interested, we can begin a discussion by PM regarding the elements of this game. �i know everyone is going to question the attacking of the neutrals, which i agree in hindsight was a mistake. �i have also come to believe that our approach in the pacific was likely not optimal - hank held on to everything for far too long. �my biggest worry was if hank simply took his entire japanese airforce and flew it west to europe the game could have been over many turns ago.

even better than debating the how, why, and what if’s of this game would be for me to get some high quality games in with either of you guys - AWN would you be interested in a league or nonleague game wherein there will of course be nothing but game posts (unless cow chimes in, which i doubt he will).

CONGRATULATIONS TO THE VICTORS, you for sure earned my respect. �Thank you for the game. �I apologize for my tournament persona if it offended anyone, as i said, i just enjoy playing the role sometimes. �for those that enjoy it i’m happy to do it (cow) for those who don’t, i can turn it off completely (just ask Karl).

Now, can i please get some high level competition to test my theories on broken victory conditions?

Cheers

You threw away the game when you declared war upon the true neutrals without any way to gain from that. you gave the Axis free troops and IPC and gained no IPCs yourself after declaring war. From my perspective there was no reason to declare war upon the true neutrals. I haven�t played AA for very long so I might be missing something. The thing is. The only time you declare war upon the true neutrals is when you can you get Turkey this way and also keep it this way. Spain might be a good second. Other then that you have South America, which is interesting as its 6 more ipcs, but the strategic value of Spain and Turkey generaly outweighs that. You can keep complaining about those planes, but the truth is that you lost the game the moment you declared war upon the true neutrals.

the reason we declared war on the neutrals is that one tac was a giant swing on moscow.  you wouldn’t believe it, but the G7 attack went from an 80+% win in LL to a 20% win or something like that.  i thought that if AWN didn’t get moscow on G7, then by the time he got it it would not matter any more.

however, a few more turns of the japanese airforce becoming a behemoth showed me that even if we had not attacked the neutrals and given the extra infantry, the japanese could have vacated the pacific and there was no way the allies could have held london and egypt.  moscow and volgo were going to fall.

[allweneedislove]

thanks for the game guys. it was fun.

i was impressed with your mass carrier strategy. at first i thought it was a poor decision, but once you got enough planes to land on all the carriers it was a very effective and flexible.

[boldfresh]

personally, i think the mass carriers strategy is what created the crossover possibility for japan - too slow to develop, so japan’s income stayed too high for too long.  a slowly developing game allowing japan to pump out so much air creates the devastating crossover possibility i was referring to.  it wouldn’t if japan spent all it’s money on fleet, but when it is building 3 aircraft a round, it creates the imbalance possibility of the japanese AF swooping into europe as a massively overpowered wrecking ball/impenetrable defensive shield.  and at no penalty to the overall victory connditions as far as the allies are concerned.  it doesn’t matter even if tokyo falls if the wrecking ball caused the europe victory, which it easily can.

problem is, i don’t know a much better strategy to come at japan than we employed.  i know it could be better, but i don’t know if it could be ENOUGH better to reach a tipping point in the pacific early enough.    just some thoughts, please feel free to enlighten me.

[JDOW]

@Boldfresh:

GG gentlemen - it was a pleasure to play you.  egypt held with 3 ftrs.

the 10 japanese units that crossed over on the final turn were the difference.

if you are interested, we can begin a discussion by PM regarding the elements of this game.  i know everyone is going to question the attacking of the neutrals, which i agree in hindsight was a mistake.  i have also come to believe that our approach in the pacific was likely not optimal - hank held on to everything for far too long.  my biggest worry was if hank simply took his entire japanese airforce and flew it west to europe the game could have been over many turns ago.

even better than debating the how, why, and what if’s of this game would be for me to get some high quality games in with either of you guys - AWN would you be interested in a league or nonleague game wherein there will of course be nothing but game posts (unless cow chimes in, which i doubt he will).

CONGRATULATIONS TO THE VICTORS, you for sure earned my respect.  Thank you for the game.  I apologize for my tournament persona if it offended anyone, as i said, i just enjoy playing the role sometimes.  for those that enjoy it i’m happy to do it (cow) for those who don’t, i can turn it off completely (just ask Karl).

Now, can i please get some high level competition to test my theories on broken victory conditions?

Cheers

Nice post and congratulations to allweneedislove and hank!

Would be fun to see Bold playing axis vs Allweneedislove playing the Allies with the same bid as in this game, hopefully a league game :)

[JDOW]

@Boldfresh:

problem is, i don’t know a much better strategy to come at japan than we employed.  i know it could be better, but i don’t know if it could be ENOUGH better to reach a tipping point in the pacific early enough.    just some thoughts, please feel free to enlighten me.

I of course am far away from having an answer on that but as we discussed yesterday I was wondering if a KFJ could be faster and more painful for Japan if directed from Caroline Islands with constantly threatening sz6 but also harass the money islands. This could imo also give Anzac more chances to have an impact.
However the sz6 containment of course gave the option to get the Russians into play which was also annoying, but maybe not annoying enough than losing the money islands, who knows^^

Plus: In case Japan goes a lot of air and not so much fleet, more subs could be an answer.
But as usual the devil lies in the detail and any approach stands and falls by the execution.

We did not even discuss yet the fall of India and if that was inevitable and how the game would have gone with India in the game for longer.