XDAP Final… eh, i mean, Semifinal - Allweneedishank vs. TeamBoldDutch

[lexgreat]

as much as I hate unevenly divided luck, those LL rerolls are a bad idea, even if it sounds good initially. sorry for posting so much here, will desist until game end ;)

[JDOW]

Bold, I am sorry but the way your are talking is just weird.

One thing, take it for granted:
You can admit your opponents played a great game a 100 times. As soon as you directly and indirectly claim the game you played (Allies +16 or 18 or so) is imbalanced by the rules, you immediately nullify the appreciation of your opponent’s performance. Period.

You CANNOT at all try to argue, twist words and believe you can solve that problem by using language. This is beyond language but 100% controlled by emotions.
And the emotions of the human nature only feel that your acknowledgment of their performance is completely devaluated by your complain about the game rules, nullified, non-existent by your complain. No arguments, no language, just emotions. You can write what you want, the result is the same and it is the same for every person on this planet (mentally ill people maybe excluded).

So you need to decide: You either got outplayed by better opponents (in case you still want to acknowledge their performance) OR the game is imbalanced (which 100% excludes acknowledging a great performance).

This is black or white my friend, trust me and don’t try to justifiy you once more, you already did more than once, nobody wants to hear another justification, just make your choice;)

[Hank13]

@alexgreat:

as much as I hate unevenly divided luck, those LL rerolls are a bad idea, even if it sounds good initially.

I agree Alex. They are less of a safety net and more of something you plan to use to ensure your turn works out exactly how you wanted it to go. Definitely a strategic decision on our side to agree to them, but I don’t think I would want to play this way in a regular game.

[lexgreat]

Make it a normal, regular reroll, if reroll is what you want. Would improve chances, but not guarantee anything, and could even backfire.
There you are, broke my own intention of not posting anymore…

[Hank13]

@alexgreat:

Make it a normal, regular reroll, if reroll is what you want. Would improve chances, but not guarantee anything, and could even backfire.

I find a lot of players will do this automatically if an attack goes really bad (ie/ you had 95%+ chance of winning with multiple units and instead your opponent keeps multiple units). I think if you are playing for fun and/or for the challenge of the game, then this is something you do naturally.

@alexgreat:

There you are, broke my own intention of not posting anymore…

You’re hooked. It’s too late to turn back now :-P

[boldfresh]

@JDOW:

Bold, I am sorry but the way your are talking is just weird.

One thing, take it for granted:
You can admit your opponents played a great game a 100 times. As soon as you directly and indirectly claim the game you played (Allies +16 or 18 or so) is imbalanced by the rules, you immediately nullify the appreciation of your opponent’s performance. Period.

You CANNOT at all try to argue, twist words and believe you can solve that problem by using language. This is beyond language but 100% controlled by emotions.
And the emotions of the human nature only feel that your acknowledgment of their performance is completely devaluated by your complain about the game rules, nullified, non-existent by your complain. No arguments, no language, just emotions. You can write what you want, the result is the same and it is the same for every person on this planet (mentally ill people maybe excluded).

So you need to decide: You either got outplayed by better opponents (in case you still want to acknowledge their performance) OR the game is imbalanced (which 100% excludes acknowledging a great performance).

This is black or white my friend, trust me and don’t try to justifiy you once more, you already did more than once, nobody wants to hear another justification, just make your choice;)

Not following your logic jdow.  Thats like saying science and religion are polar opposites and fundamentally at odds.  They are not, they have some areas of overlap and other areas that are completely mutually exclusive.

[boldfresh]

here’s the map.

[boldfresh]

i’m playing for the moral victory possibility of taking egypt in the original roll (before the fatal LL reroll is invoked).  if that were to happen, we would be favored in this one.  yes, i know, hank may not have vacated philippines if we had a chance to take egypt.  but still, if allies could get egypt, it would be their game to lose.

[boldfresh]

either way, it was a great game - i felt like chances were very good i would learn a lot in this game and boy did i.  i know hank is taking a break after this, but i would be happy to finally play you a league game AWN.  if you’re up for it.

cheers

[boldfresh]

@Boldfresh:

either way, it was a great game - i felt like chances were very good i would learn a lot in this game and boy did i.  i know hank is taking a break after this, but i would be happy to finally play you a league game AWN.  if you’re up for it.

cheers

by the way, in the league game, i’d be happy to give you the bomber plus 8 with the allies.

[boldfresh]

or bomber plus 9.

[boldfresh]

JDOW, let me try to put it another way…

If you have two competitors riding in a 000 mile cycling race and one is riding a 10 kilogram bike and the other is riding a 30 kilogram bike, and the guy riding the lighter bike wins, do you think it would be terrible for the slower biker to say great ride - you did beat me on a lighter bike but nonetheless, you rode a fantastic race, probably the best race i have ever seen.  i think the winning rider, unless they have a very fragile ego, can accept the compliment without feeling like his ability to ride is being brought into question or thinking that the other rider is trying to say they could have ridden the bike even faster.  it’s just a matter of fact statement, not from emotion for me, it is just a revelation about game balance as related to victory conditions that finally totally struck home.  i had long suspected it but hoped i was wrong, but i do not think i am.  i will of course test the theory further, hopefully against hank and awn.  i we had played the axis, they may have still beaten us… but i doubt it.  and that is not me saying i think i can play the axis better than they can (i highly doubt that), it is only speaking to game balance.  going back to the bike analogy, if i was that slower rider, i dont’ know if i could have ridden faster over 500 miles than he did on the light bike, but i may have been able to win on the lighter bike.  :wink:

cheers

[allweneedislove]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.7

Game History

Round: 14

Purchase Units - Italians
            Italians buy 2 aaGuns, 1 airfield, 1 destroyer, 1 fighter and 1 transport; Remaining resources: 3 PUs;

Combat Move - Italians
            1 infantry moved from Yakut S.S.R. to Buryatia
                  Italians take Buryatia from Russians
            1 infantry moved from Western Germany to Denmark
                  Germans take Denmark from British
            1 mech_infantry moved from South West Africa to Rhodesia
                  Italians take Rhodesia from British

Combat - Italians

Non Combat Move - Italians
            1 transport moved from 80 Sea Zone to 81 Sea Zone
            3 fighters, 2 mech_infantrys and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Southern France to Southern Italy
            2 artilleries moved from Southern France to Northern Italy
            2 aaGuns and 2 infantry moved from Western Germany to Northern Italy
            1 bomber moved from Novgorod to Egypt

Place Units - Italians
            2 aaGuns, 1 airfield and 1 fighter placed in Egypt
            1 destroyer and 1 transport placed in 97 Sea Zone

Turn Complete - Italians
            Total Cost from Convoy Blockades: 2
                Rolling for Convoy Blockade Damage in 97 Sea Zone. Rolls: 6,6
                Rolling for Convoy Blockade Damage in 105 Sea Zone. Rolls: 4,3,6,3
            Italians collect 40 PUs (2 lost to blockades); end with 43 PUs total
            Objective Italians 4 Control Iraq Or Persia Or Northwest Persia: Italians met a national objective for an additional 6 PUs; end with 49 PUs
            Objective Italians 2 Roman Empire: Italians met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 54 PUs

Territory Summary for Italians :

Evenkiyskiy : 1 flag
    Yakut S.S.R. : 1 flag
    Timguska : 1 flag
    Kazakhstan : 1 flag
    Buryatia : 1 flag, 1 infantry
    Belgian Congo : 1 flag
    Trans-Jordan : 1 flag
    Egypt : 1 flag, 2 aaGuns, 1 airfield, 1 bomber, 1 factory_minor, 1 fighter and 1 harbour
    South West Africa : 1 flag
    Kenya : 1 flag
    Anglo Egyptian Sudan : 1 flag
    Rhodesia : 1 flag, 1 mech_infantry
    Tanganyika Territory : 1 flag
    French Equatorial Africa : 1 flag
    Syria : 1 flag
    Denmark : 1 infantry
    Northern Italy : 2 aaGuns, 2 artilleries, 1 factory_major and 2 infantry
    Southern Italy : 1 airfield, 3 artilleries, 1 factory_minor, 3 fighters, 1 harbour, 5 infantry, 5 mech_infantrys and 1 tactical_bomber
    Karelia : 1 flag, 3 mech_infantrys
    Bessarabia : 1 flag
    Novosibirsk : 1 flag
    Portugal : 1 flag
    Turkey : 1 flag, 1 factory_minor
    Mozambique : 1 flag
    Saudi Arabia : 1 flag
    Angola : 1 flag
    Greece : 1 flag
    97 Sea Zone : 1 destroyer and 1 transport
    Iraq : 1 flag
    81 Sea Zone : 1 transport
    Northwest Persia : 1 flag
    Persia : 1 flag
    Spain : 1 flag

Production/PUs Summary :

Germans : 60 / 78
    Russians : 10 / 0
    Japanese : 64 / 69
    Americans : 63 / 89
    Chinese : 6 / 8
    British : 23 / 26
    UK_Pacific : 0 / 0
    Italians : 42 / 54
    ANZAC : 8 / 10
    French : 5 / 0
    Dutch : 0 / 0
    Mongolians : 0 / 0
    Neutral_Axis : 0 / 0
    Neutral_Allies : 0 / 0
    Neutral_True : 2 / 0

[allweneedislove]

@Boldfresh:

JDOW, let me try to put it another way…

If you have two competitors riding in a 000 mile cycling race and one is riding a 10 kilogram bike and the other is riding a 30 kilogram bike, and the guy riding the lighter bike wins, do you think it would be terrible for the slower biker to say great ride - you did beat me on a lighter bike but nonetheless, you rode a fantastic race, probably the best race i have ever seen.  i think the winning rider, unless they have a very fragile ego, can accept the compliment without feeling like his ability to ride is being brought into question or thinking that the other rider is trying to say they could have ridden the bike even faster.  it’s just a matter of fact statement, not from emotion for me, it is just a revelation about game balance as related to victory conditions that finally totally struck home.  i had long suspected it but hoped i was wrong, but i do not think i am.  i will of course test the theory further, hopefully against hank and awn.  i we had played the axis, they may have still beaten us… but i doubt it.  and that is not me saying i think i can play the axis better than they can (i highly doubt that), it is only speaking to game balance.  going back to the bike analogy, if i was that slower rider, i dont’ know if i could have ridden faster over 500 miles than he did on the light bike, but i may have been able to win on the lighter bike.   :wink:

cheers

i don’t think your analogy helps explain your point. it would be easier to just to say what you mean.
but for some reason i feel compelled to correct your poor analogy.

using your bike analogy you would have to add to the fact that both riders have ridden both bikes at least 20 times before and know the strengths and weaknesses of both bikes.

both riders now feel that one bike is better than the other. so they decide a fair way to run the race is to have one bike get a head start. they decide that they will bid back and forth to see how much of a head start is needed to make the race fair. they go to an internet forum and spend 6 pages to get to the point were both riders think the race is fair.

now you can continue with your analogy if you like, but it would probably be easier to just way what you mean.

[boldfresh]

Now im confused.  I started out by saying qhat I meant and jdow got all confused.  So I tried an analogy or tqo to help him.  :lol:

Anyway, I learned something in this game, as I said.  Preaumably the reason u refuswd to play me all year until I was out of the tournament…. smart move by the way.  I was actually thinking the game was pretty even at initial setup, which it is for a certain type of game… that is, a game without any significant type of crossover.  After a game of no crossover, you did it when you needed to, and thats game.  More later.

In the meantime, I hope u will now agree to play me some league games.  I need good competion to learn.

[boldfresh]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.7

Game History

Round: 14

Purchase Units - ANZAC
            ANZAC buy 1 artillery and 2 infantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Combat Move - ANZAC
            2 fighters moved from New South Wales to Queensland
            1 infantry moved from New South Wales to Queensland

Combat - ANZAC
            Battle in Queensland
                ANZAC attack with 2 fighters and 1 infantry
                Japanese defend with 1 airfield, 1 harbour and 1 infantry
                ANZAC win, taking Queensland from Japanese with 2 fighters and 1 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
                Casualties for Japanese: 1 infantry

Non Combat Move - ANZAC
            1 infantry moved from Victoria to New South Wales
            2 fighters moved from Queensland to New South Wales
            1 fighter moved from Caroline Islands to 46 Sea Zone
            1 fighter moved from 46 Sea Zone to New South Wales
            2 fighters moved from Finland to United Kingdom

Place Units - ANZAC
            1 artillery and 2 infantry placed in New South Wales

Turn Complete - ANZAC
            ANZAC collect 10 PUs; end with 10 PUs total

[boldfresh]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.7

Game History

Round: 14

Combat Move - French
            1 infantry moved from Gibraltar to Spain
                  French take Spain from Italians

Combat - French

Non Combat Move - French
            1 fighter moved from Finland to United Kingdom
            3 infantry moved from Algeria to Tunisia

Turn Complete - French

[boldfresh]

if by some miracle we actually take egypt in luck mode, you will allow the result to stand - seeing as how all the late breaking battles in the relevant theater have gone against us…  :wink:  those ARE the droids i’m looking for.

[boldfresh]

@Boldfresh:

Now im confused.  I started out by saying qhat I meant and jdow got all confused.  So I tried an analogy or tqo to help him.   :lol:

Anyway, I learned something in this game, as I said.  Preaumably the reason u refuswd to play me all year until I was out of the tournament…. smart move by the way.  I was actually thinking the game was pretty even at initial setup, which it is for a certain type of game… that is, a game without any significant type of crossover.  After a game of no crossover, you did it when you needed to, and thats game.  More later.

In the meantime, I hope u will now agree to play me some league games.  I need good competion to learn.

i guess i am still not 100 percent sure that the victory conditions are broken.  it could just be that the allies need to be more aggressive early, as cow has suggested.  however, it seems to me that the guy who knows what he’s doing with the axis should be able to get within 1 victory city in each theater without much trouble within 7-8 rounds and then throw the airforce to the other theater.  when i said i was glad you attacked the US fleet, i was not kidding, because it was much better that for us than for you to send 30-40 japanese planes west into europe, which was already hanging in the balance.

[allweneedislove]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.7

Game History

Round: 15

Politics - Germans

Purchase Units - Germans
            Germans buy nothing; Remaining resources: 78 PUs;

Combat Move - Germans
            16 armour, 28 artilleries, 19 infantry and 53 mech_infantrys moved from Tambov to Volgograd

Combat - Germans
            Battle in Volgograd
                Germans attack with 16 armour, 28 artilleries, 19 infantry and 53 mech_infantrys
                Russians defend with 1 factory_minor and 3 infantry
                    Germans roll dice for 16 armour, 28 artilleries, 19 infantry and 53 mech_infantrys in Volgograd, round 2 :  38/116 hits
                    Russians roll dice for 3 infantry in Volgograd, round 2 :  1/3 hits
                    3 infantry owned by the Russians and 1 infantry owned by the Germans lost in Volgograd
                Germans win, taking Volgograd from Russians with 16 armour, 28 artilleries, 18 infantry and 53 mech_infantrys remaining. Battle score for attacker is 6
                Casualties for Germans: 1 infantry
                Casualties for Russians: 3 infantry

Non Combat Move - Germans
            3 bombers, 5 fighters and 10 tactical_bombers moved from Southern Italy to Egypt
            3 mech_infantrys moved from France to Southern Italy
            2 mech_infantrys moved from Western Germany to Southern Italy
            2 fighters moved from Germany to Southern Italy
            9 mech_infantrys moved from Southern France to Southern Italy

Turn Complete - Germans
            Total Cost from Convoy Blockades: 4
                Rolling for Convoy Blockade Damage in 97 Sea Zone. Rolls: 6,2
                Rolling for Convoy Blockade Damage in 105 Sea Zone. Rolls: 4,1,3,1
            Germans collect 58 PUs (4 lost to blockades); end with 136 PUs total
            Objective Germans 2 Control Novgorod Or Volgograd Or Russia: Germans met a national objective for an additional 15 PUs; end with 151 PUs

Territory Summary for Germans :

Yenisey : 1 flag
    Egypt : 3 bombers, 5 fighters and 10 tactical_bombers
    Normandy Bordeaux : 1 flag, 1 factory_minor, 1 harbour and 3 mech_infantrys
    Southern France : 1 flag, 1 artillery, 1 factory_minor, 1 harbour and 4 infantry
    France : 1 flag, 1 airfield and 1 factory_minor
    Greater Southern Germany : 1 infantry
    Western Germany : 2 aaGuns, 1 airfield, 4 artilleries, 1 factory_minor, 1 harbour and 18 infantry
    Germany : 1 factory_major and 5 infantry
    Southern Italy : 2 fighters, 3 infantry and 14 mech_infantrys
    Belarus : 1 flag
    Baltic States : 1 flag
    Bryansk : 1 flag
    Rostov : 1 flag
    Urals : 1 flag
    Vyborg : 1 flag, 3 infantry
    Archangel : 1 flag
    Eastern Poland : 1 flag
    Russia : 1 flag, 1 airfield and 1 factory_minor
    Tambov : 1 flag
    Ukraine : 1 flag, 1 factory_minor
    Western Ukraine : 1 flag
    Vologda : 1 flag
    Volgograd : 1 flag, 16 armour, 28 artilleries, 1 factory_minor, 18 infantry and 53 mech_infantrys
    Novgorod : 1 flag, 1 airfield, 1 factory_minor, 1 harbour and 3 mech_infantrys
    Smolensk : 1 flag
    113 Sea Zone : 1 submarine
    Switzerland : 1 flag
    Bulgaria : 1 flag
    115 Sea Zone : 1 submarine
    Yugoslavia : 1 flag

Production/PUs Summary :

Germans : 62 / 151
    Russians : 8 / 0
    Japanese : 62 / 69
    Americans : 63 / 89
    Chinese : 6 / 8
    British : 23 / 26
    UK_Pacific : 0 / 0
    Italians : 40 / 54
    ANZAC : 10 / 10
    French : 7 / 0
    Dutch : 0 / 0
    Mongolians : 0 / 0
    Neutral_Axis : 0 / 0
    Neutral_Allies : 0 / 0
    Neutral_True : 2 / 0