XDAP Final… eh, i mean, Semifinal - Allweneedishank vs. TeamBoldDutch

[boldfresh]

@Cow:

I like the Victory Conditions. It speeds the game up. Granted it gives the Axis an advantage, but that is what the bid is for.

i was thinking the bid was not that high.  now i think the bid might be at least 20 (if no bomber).

[boldfresh]

there may technically exist a tiny chance of extending this game another round.  a tiny one.  but since that chance exists, we must play it out.

[lexgreat]

So about those victory conditions: What you say is that when we as Allies + 6 lost to you, we never had a chance from G1 on, thanks to some game rules?

Or we were not good enough to beat you, and you not good enough to beat Allweneedishank. I am looking forward to the revelations after the end of this match. Until then I will still believe that skill is the most deciding factor, barring many many rolls against probability, even if I agree that the Axis seems to have an advantage (not enough for me to beat allweeneed).

[boldfresh]

yes, you guys played great.  discussion after the match is complete.

[boldfresh]

Like cow says, if axis plays fast and loose the allies have a chance.  If axis plays patient and the match gets into extended rounds with large german and japanese airforces, the VC conditions break down I believe.

[boldfresh]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.7

Game History

Round: 14

Purchase Units - Americans
            Americans buy 7 bombers and 1 mech_infantry; Remaining resources: 1 PUs;

Combat Move - Americans
            2 infantry moved from Caroline Islands to 33 Sea Zone
            2 infantry and 1 transport moved from 33 Sea Zone to 35 Sea Zone
            2 infantry moved from 35 Sea Zone to Philippines
            2 bombers moved from Tobruk to Kenya
            1 artillery and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Kiangsu to Anhwe
            2 bombers moved from Tobruk to Iraq
            1 bomber moved from Tobruk to Iraq
            1 bomber moved from Kenya to Rhodesia

Combat - Americans
            Battle in Philippines
            Battle in Rhodesia
                Americans attack with 1 bomber
                Italians defend with 1 infantry
                Italians win, taking Philippines from Japanese with no units remaining. Battle score for attacker is -9
                Casualties for Italians: 1 infantry
                Casualties for Americans: 1 bomber
            Battle in Anhwe
                Americans attack with 1 artillery and 1 tactical_bomber
                Japanese defend with 1 mech_infantry
                Americans win with 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 0
                Casualties for Japanese: 1 mech_infantry
                Casualties for Americans: 1 artillery
            Battle in Kenya
                Americans attack with 1 bomber
                Italians defend with 1 armour
                Italians win with no units remaining. Battle score for attacker is -6
                Casualties for Italians: 1 armour
                Casualties for Americans: 1 bomber
            Battle in Iraq
                Americans attack with 3 bombers
                Italians defend with 2 mech_infantrys
                Americans win with 2 bombers remaining. Battle score for attacker is -4
                Casualties for Italians: 2 mech_infantrys
                Casualties for Americans: 1 bomber

Non Combat Move - Americans
            2 bombers moved from Iraq to Caucasus
            2 bombers and 1 fighter moved from Algeria to Tobruk
            2 infantry and 2 mech_infantrys moved from Gibraltar to 91 Sea Zone
            1 destroyer, 2 infantry, 2 mech_infantrys and 7 transports moved from 91 Sea Zone to 96 Sea Zone
            2 infantry and 2 mech_infantrys moved from 96 Sea Zone to Tobruk
            1 aaGun and 1 infantry moved from Western United States to 10 Sea Zone
            1 aaGun, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 10 Sea Zone to 89 Sea Zone
            1 aaGun and 1 infantry moved from 89 Sea Zone to Southeast Mexico
            6 fighters moved from Western United States to 102 Sea Zone
            6 fighters moved from 102 Sea Zone to 91 Sea Zone
            1 submarine moved from 20 Sea Zone to 36 Sea Zone
            1 submarine moved from 36 Sea Zone to 37 Sea Zone
            1 submarine moved from 20 Sea Zone to 43 Sea Zone
            1 submarine moved from 20 Sea Zone to 35 Sea Zone
            5 destroyers moved from 33 Sea Zone to 35 Sea Zone
            2 carriers and 1 tactical_bomber moved from 33 Sea Zone to 42 Sea Zone
            1 fighter moved from Caroline Islands to 33 Sea Zone
            1 fighter moved from 33 Sea Zone to 54 Sea Zone
            1 fighter moved from 54 Sea Zone to New Zealand
            1 fighter moved from 33 Sea Zone to 54 Sea Zone
            1 fighter moved from 54 Sea Zone to New Zealand
            1 fighter moved from New South Wales to New Zealand
            1 tactical_bomber moved from Anhwe to Tsagaan Olom

Place Units - Americans
            1 mech_infantry placed in Norway
            7 bombers placed in Eastern United States

Turn Complete - Americans
            Americans collect 63 PUs; end with 64 PUs total
            Objective Americans 2 Outer Territories: Americans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 69 PUs
            Objective Americans 4 Philippines: Americans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 74 PUs
            Objective Americans 3 Defense Obligations: Americans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 79 PUs
            Objective Americans 1 Homeland: Americans met a national objective for an additional 10 PUs; end with 89 PUs

[boldfresh]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.7

Game History

Round: 14

Purchase Units - Chinese
            Trigger Chinese Loses Burma Road: Chinese has their production frontier changed to: productionChinese_Burma_Road_Closed
            Chinese buy 2 infantry; Remaining resources: 2 PUs;

Combat Move - Chinese
            17 infantry moved from Kiangsu to Kiangsi

Combat - Chinese
            Battle in Kiangsi
                Chinese attack with 17 infantry
                Japanese defend with 1 aaGun, 1 armour, 1 fighter, 1 infantry and 8 mech_infantrys
                Chinese win, taking Kiangsi from Japanese with 10 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 35
                Casualties for Japanese: 1 aaGun, 1 armour, 1 fighter, 1 infantry and 8 mech_infantrys
                Casualties for Chinese: 7 infantry

Non Combat Move - Chinese

Place Units - Chinese
            2 infantry placed in Kiangsi

Turn Complete - Chinese
            Chinese collect 6 PUs; end with 8 PUs total

[boldfresh]

we just got really lucky in china.  i need to pause and ask if you would like to use your low luck reroll.  but more importantly, i would like to ask if hank and love would like to continue the game after Larry’s (in my opinion flawed) victory condition rules give them the technical victory.  :-)

[boldfresh]

please don’t take that the wrong way guys - you will understand more after the post game discussion.  you have played a phenomenal axis game, completely within the ruleset. which is what we have to play by.  it’s just a shame a match as great as this one has to end the way it is going to end.

we did make one potentially big mistake in this match when we attacked the neutrals.  however, even if we had not done so, i think a similar result was probably inevitable.  we actually did have victory within our grasp if a couple small things had gone our way (namely the 2 airstrikes in n italy and greater southern) but victory never should have been within our grasp, in fact, our chances could have been completely snuffed out long ago by what i will tell you after we are done.

[Hank13]

@Boldfresh:

we just got really lucky in china.  i need to pause and ask if you would like to use your low luck reroll.   but more importantly, i would like to ask if hank and love would like to continue the game after Larry’s (in my opinion flawed) victory condition rules give them the technical victory.   :-)

No on both counts :)

(I envision myself taking a bit of a break after the league season ends and will probably only play the finals here)

[boldfresh]

if i had to guess, i would guess you guys (being the A&A geniuses you are) are well aware of what i’m going to tell you, you have just never shown it as far as i can tell.  until just now, that is.

ironically, my LL reroll suggestion is probably what lost the game for us (unless you would not have made the amur attack without it).

[boldfresh]

not much help from the dice here at the end. watch us succeed in egypt only to have it negated by the LL reroll.

anyway, i rolled for UK but the thing locked up trying to post so ignore the second set of dice coming.

[boldfresh]

Definitely not the droids I was looking for.  For some reason my phone hasnt been letting me post the map.  Should be coming soon hopefully the next 1 to 2 hrs.  Dice second time were even worse!

[lexgreat]

as much as I hate unevenly divided luck, those LL rerolls are a bad idea, even if it sounds good initially. sorry for posting so much here, will desist until game end ;)

[JDOW]

Bold, I am sorry but the way your are talking is just weird.

One thing, take it for granted:
You can admit your opponents played a great game a 100 times. As soon as you directly and indirectly claim the game you played (Allies +16 or 18 or so) is imbalanced by the rules, you immediately nullify the appreciation of your opponent’s performance. Period.

You CANNOT at all try to argue, twist words and believe you can solve that problem by using language. This is beyond language but 100% controlled by emotions.
And the emotions of the human nature only feel that your acknowledgment of their performance is completely devaluated by your complain about the game rules, nullified, non-existent by your complain. No arguments, no language, just emotions. You can write what you want, the result is the same and it is the same for every person on this planet (mentally ill people maybe excluded).

So you need to decide: You either got outplayed by better opponents (in case you still want to acknowledge their performance) OR the game is imbalanced (which 100% excludes acknowledging a great performance).

This is black or white my friend, trust me and don’t try to justifiy you once more, you already did more than once, nobody wants to hear another justification, just make your choice;)

[Hank13]

@alexgreat:

as much as I hate unevenly divided luck, those LL rerolls are a bad idea, even if it sounds good initially.

I agree Alex. They are less of a safety net and more of something you plan to use to ensure your turn works out exactly how you wanted it to go. Definitely a strategic decision on our side to agree to them, but I don’t think I would want to play this way in a regular game.

[lexgreat]

Make it a normal, regular reroll, if reroll is what you want. Would improve chances, but not guarantee anything, and could even backfire.
There you are, broke my own intention of not posting anymore…

[Hank13]

@alexgreat:

Make it a normal, regular reroll, if reroll is what you want. Would improve chances, but not guarantee anything, and could even backfire.

I find a lot of players will do this automatically if an attack goes really bad (ie/ you had 95%+ chance of winning with multiple units and instead your opponent keeps multiple units). I think if you are playing for fun and/or for the challenge of the game, then this is something you do naturally.

@alexgreat:

There you are, broke my own intention of not posting anymore…

You’re hooked. It’s too late to turn back now :-P

[boldfresh]

@JDOW:

Bold, I am sorry but the way your are talking is just weird.

One thing, take it for granted:
You can admit your opponents played a great game a 100 times. As soon as you directly and indirectly claim the game you played (Allies +16 or 18 or so) is imbalanced by the rules, you immediately nullify the appreciation of your opponent’s performance. Period.

You CANNOT at all try to argue, twist words and believe you can solve that problem by using language. This is beyond language but 100% controlled by emotions.
And the emotions of the human nature only feel that your acknowledgment of their performance is completely devaluated by your complain about the game rules, nullified, non-existent by your complain. No arguments, no language, just emotions. You can write what you want, the result is the same and it is the same for every person on this planet (mentally ill people maybe excluded).

So you need to decide: You either got outplayed by better opponents (in case you still want to acknowledge their performance) OR the game is imbalanced (which 100% excludes acknowledging a great performance).

This is black or white my friend, trust me and don’t try to justifiy you once more, you already did more than once, nobody wants to hear another justification, just make your choice;)

Not following your logic jdow.  Thats like saying science and religion are polar opposites and fundamentally at odds.  They are not, they have some areas of overlap and other areas that are completely mutually exclusive.

[boldfresh]

here’s the map.