13L G40 seththenewb(allies+10) vs MagicQ(axis)

[MagicQ]

@Gamerman01:

This is a little sticky.  Let’s talk about this first.

We all agree that the first round stands, because there was only 1 sub hit and Seth would have definitely taken a hit to the battleship after the first round volley.
So Italy scores 6 hits, which includes 1 from the sub.
Seth takes hit to battleship, 2 hits to carrier, 2 destroyers, 1 cruiser
Allies score 7 hits and Magic takes 2 hits to carrier, 3 destroyers, 2 subs

---

OK, so then

Wait.  I see Bold jumped in.  I will continue after I get caught up here.

Correct.

[seth4god]

@seththenewb:

Ok and Nope

Reroll after the 2nd round since you ignored my stated wish.

I should say reroll the 2nd Rd, not after the 2nd round.

[gamerman01]

Magic, you had no way of knowing that you would score 2 hits with the subs when you decided to roll.

Magic, did you see Seth’s post requesting that you roll the rest on the forum?  If so, why did you not respond?

[seth4god]

@Gamerman01:

Magic, you had no way of knowing that you would score 2 hits with the subs when you decided to roll.

Magic, did you see Seth’s post requesting that you roll the rest on the forum?  If so, why did you not respond?

He did indeed see that post because that’s the same post that I gave OOL in.

[gamerman01]

@Gamerman01:

Magic, you had no way of knowing that you would score 2 hits with the subs when you decided to roll.

The problem is, that if you had scored 1 hit, you would have had to choose a casualty before continuing.  Seth should not have to make that choice at that point (before seeing the rest of your roll).

Seth did request that you stop and roll the rest on the forum, and warned that he would not recognize the rest of the rolls if you didn’t stop.  However, I don’t think it’s fair to take your dice away, because at that point you did have a high chance of wiping Seth anyway.

There were only 2 ships of Seth remaining, however, there was a chance Seth could save a destroyer to ward off surprise strikes in round 3, or save a battleship that could possibly survive the battle.

This is my ruling.  I do not think it is fair to re-roll from round 2, however I think Seth deserves some compensation for you improperly rolling the battle on TripleA after he did everything he could to explain to you why that was inappropriate and technically illegal.  I believe that Italy should take off 1 unit that survived the Z92 battle to compensate.

Is that satisfactory to both of you?

[MagicQ]

Most of time I play this way.

As the attacker I roll attacker’s dice, if any ool is needed, I would save and send to defender, if not, I will go on playing.
In this case, no need to pause.

If I hit 1 in this case, then I would definitely wait for opponent’s order. But that’s not the case.

[gamerman01]

@MagicQ:

Most of time I play this way.

As the attacker I roll attacker’s dice, if any ool is needed, I would save and send to defender, if not, I will go on playing.
In this case, no need to pause.

If I hit 1 in this case, then I would definitely wait for opponent’s order. But that’s not the case.

This is exactly the point, and you apparently still don’t realize it.

If you hit 1, you would have had to ask Seth for a casualty choice BUT IT WOULD BE PREMATURE
Seth does not have to choose Destroyer or Battleship until seeing all the rest of your units fire.  Triple A makes this impossible.

[MagicQ]

If I hit 1, there is no way I would continue rolling dice without asking Seth.

Here, Subs hit 2 and the software automatically take 2 ships off and I don’t even think I should ask Seth for anything.

[gamerman01]

@MagicQ:

If I hit 1, there is no way I would continue rolling dice without asking Seth.

Here, Subs hit 2 and the software automatically take 2 ships off and I don’t even think I should ask Seth for anything.

I know, Magic!
I guess I have to say it a 3rd time, more slowly.

If you had scored 1 hit, you would have asked Seth, just like you said.

And Seth would have to decide Destroyer or Battleship, but he should not have to make any decisions according to the rulebook, until you roll the rest of your attacking force and see how many hits you got in total.  He is having to make a decision without all the relevant information that he is entitled to have at that point.
If you were playing table top face to face, you would not ask him for a casualty choice after the 2 subs roll.  You would roll the 2 subs, keep track of how many sub hits there will be, and roll the rest of your units.  Then Seth would choose his casualties, including the appropriate number of boats.
I know you got 2 hits so it didn’t matter, but that is irrelevant because you went ahead and rolled in Triple A when there was a very real likelihood that you would score 1 hit and then you would have a problem.

Surely you understand what we’re saying now?
You realize I wouldn’t be unreasonable to demand that you go back and re-roll from round 2 and take away all your great dice, but I am settling on a compromise that I think is fair, that Italy should take off 1 unit of your choice from Z92 survivors.

[gamerman01]

And in the future, you should roll sub battles out on the forum when enemy destroyers are present, unless there is only 1 type of boat that could be hit by the subs.
Also in the future, I respectfully advise you to respond to your opponent’s concerns before continuing the game and rolling more dice.  Thank you.

[MagicQ]

Hi Seth

If you believe any dice that involved with subs could be invalid, then the whole game could be invalid since the very beginning of round 1 Germany. That would be ridiculous.

but I think you are not happy about the RAF’s roll of the second battle round. And I do feel sorry for the bad  dice you get.

[MagicQ]

@Gamerman01:

@MagicQ:

If I hit 1, there is no way I would continue rolling dice without asking Seth.

Here, Subs hit 2 and the software automatically take 2 ships off and I don’t even think I should ask Seth for anything.

I know, Magic!
I guess I have to say it a 3rd time, more slowly.

If you had scored 1 hit, you would have asked Seth, just like you said.

And Seth would have to decide Destroyer or Battleship, but he should not have to make any decisions according to the rulebook, until you roll the rest of your attacking force and see how many hits you got in total.  He is having to make a decision without all the relevant information that he is entitled to have at that point.
If you were playing table top face to face, you would not ask him for a casualty choice after the 2 subs roll.  You would roll the 2 subs, keep track of how many sub hits there will be, and roll the rest of your units.  Then Seth would choose his casualties, including the appropriate number of boats.
I know you got 2 hits so it didn’t matter, but that is irrelevant because you went ahead and rolled in Triple A when there was a very real likelihood that you would score 1 hit and then you would have a problem.

Surely you understand what we’re saying now?
You realize I wouldn’t be unreasonable to demand that you go back and re-roll from round 2 and take away all your great dice, but I am settling on a compromise that I think is fair, that Italy should take off 1 unit of your choice from Z92 survivors.

OK then. I will accept it.

[gamerman01]

Seth?  Do you agree to the compromise also?

[gamerman01]

Magic, I hope you won’t think any less of Seth because of this disagreement.  He has a good point, and you can learn from this.  Also, if you haven’t already, you really should familiarize yourself with the Triple A issues document he gave you a link to, to prevent future misunderstandings with the people you play with in the future.  It could also help you out in your game play by helping you to avoid being taken advantage of.

Happy gaming!

[MagicQ]

@Gamerman01:

Magic, I hope you won’t think any less of Seth because of this disagreement.  He has a good point, and you can learn from this.  Also, if you haven’t already, you really should familiarize yourself with the Triple A issues document he gave you a link to, to prevent future misunderstandings with the people you play with in the future.  It could also help you out in your game play by helping you to avoid being taken advantage of.

Happy gaming!

Nope. Seth is a great person. He helped me a lot for this one my 1st league game.

[MagicQ]

@MagicQ:

@Gamerman01:

Magic, I hope you won’t think any less of Seth because of this disagreement.  He has a good point, and you can learn from this.  Also, if you haven’t already, you really should familiarize yourself with the Triple A issues document he gave you a link to, to prevent future misunderstandings with the people you play with in the future.  It could also help you out in your game play by helping you to avoid being taken advantage of.

Happy gaming!

Nope. Seth is a great person. He helped me a lot for this one my 1st league game.

I won’t think any less of Seth because of this disagreement for sure. This is not player’s problem. I do hope no-one would take advantage of  the flaw of the software.

[MagicQ]

@seththenewb:

@Gamerman01:

Magic, you had no way of knowing that you would score 2 hits with the subs when you decided to roll.

Magic, did you see Seth’s post requesting that you roll the rest on the forum?  If so, why did you not respond?

He did indeed see that post because that’s the same post that I gave OOL in.

I did see all you post and stuff. And I really believe there is no need to ask for anything before the attacker roll for that 2 sub.

Let’s put it this way,

1. If they hit none or 2, I can continue without posting or asking for ool or asking if you wanna know the rest of the Italian fleets’s dice cos that makes no difference whether I ask or not.

2. If they hit 1, then I have to ask for ool and you may wanna see how many the rest of Italian fleets hit.

In both case, I could still roll the sub’s dice first. And there is 66% chance (nil hit or 2 hits) I could skip asking you. Thus, save time for both of us.

[MagicQ]

I think the problem will occur only when defender needs to choose casualties.

[boldfresh]

i would agree that if the subs roll first, it does not really inconvenience seth, he is not forced to declare his casualties until the rest of the attack dice are rolled.  seth, the REAL problem with subs occurs when there are defending subs.  still, Magic, seth did ask you to roll the dice on the forum, which you should have respected.

cheers

[seth4god]

@Gamerman01:

This is my ruling. �I do not think it is fair to re-roll from round 2, however I think Seth deserves some compensation for you improperly rolling the battle on TripleA after he did everything he could to explain to you why that was inappropriate and technically illegal. �I believe that Italy should take off 1 unit that survived the Z92 battle to compensate.

Is that satisfactory to both of you?

Gamer, I just want to ask you a couple of questions. Is this the type of precedent that you want to set moving forward? That an opponent can ignore rules on combat and then get a little slap on the wrist. How does that discourage someone from rolling sub combat in this manner in the future, especially when their opponent stated the rules clearly moments prior to the dice being rolled. If something is done illegally, then that result is null and void. Had MagicQ actually rolled the combat correctly than this wouldn’t have been an issue. It doesn’t matter that he wiped me out or would have anyway, the roll was illegal. He still will probably wipe me out, and that’s fine.

Does your triplea problems document NOT carry any weight in how to resolve triplea’s bugs and issues? Should we consider it more like suggestions than and not something that should be religiously followed. I know you’ve stated in the past that sub combats should be rolled on the forum. But I guess it’s not a requirement so much as advice?