13L G40 seththenewb(allies+10) vs MagicQ(axis)

[seth4god]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.7

Game History

Round: 8

Purchase Units - British
            British buy 2 armour, 8 infantry and 1 mech_infantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Purchase Units - UK_Pacific
            UK_Pacific buy 2 infantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Combat Move - British
            3 artilleries and 31 infantry moved from India to Burma
                  UK_Pacific take Burma from Japanese
            1 submarine moved from 79 Sea Zone to 41 Sea Zone
            1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 110 Sea Zone to 92 Sea Zone
            1 armour moved from Gibraltar to 92 Sea Zone
            1 armour moved from 92 Sea Zone to Morocco
            4 infantry moved from United Kingdom to 110 Sea Zone
            1 battleship, 1 carrier, 1 cruiser, 2 destroyers, 4 infantry and 2 transports moved from 110 Sea Zone to 92 Sea Zone
            4 infantry moved from 92 Sea Zone to Algeria
            2 fighters moved from Egypt to Algeria

Combat - British
            Battle in Algeria
                British attack with 2 fighters and 4 infantry
                Italians defend with 1 armour
                British win, taking Algeria from Italians with 2 fighters and 3 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
                Casualties for British: 1 infantry
                Casualties for Italians: 1 armour
            Battle in Morocco

Non Combat Move - British
            2 fighters moved from Algeria to 92 Sea Zone
            3 fighters moved from United Kingdom to Gibraltar
            1 armour, 1 artillery and 5 infantry moved from Egypt to Trans-Jordan
            1 destroyer moved from 98 Sea Zone to 92 Sea Zone
            1 fighter moved from Egypt to Trans-Jordan
            1 infantry moved from Iraq to Trans-Jordan
            1 armour and 7 mech_infantrys moved from Persia to Trans-Jordan
            2 fighters moved from Persia to Trans-Jordan
            1 tactical_bomber moved from Persia to Egypt
            1 bomber moved from Persia to India
            1 infantry moved from Persia to Iraq
            5 infantry moved from Persia to Eastern Persia
            3 aaGuns moved from India to Burma

Place Units - British
            3 infantry placed in Egypt
            2 armour and 1 mech_infantry placed in Union of South Africa
            5 infantry placed in United Kingdom

Turn Complete - British
            British collect 35 PUs; end with 35 PUs total

Place Units - UK_Pacific
            2 infantry placed in India

Turn Complete - UK_Pacific
            UK_Pacific collect 6 PUs; end with 6 PUs total
            Some Units in India change ownership: 2 infantry
            Turning on Edit Mode
            EDIT: Removing units owned by British from India: 2 fighters
            EDIT: Adding units owned by British to Trans-Jordan: 2 fighters
            EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode

[MagicQ]

TripleA Move Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.7

Game History

Round: 8

Purchase Units - Italians
            Italians buy 1 carrier, 1 destroyer and 1 infantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Combat Move - Italians
            1 cruiser moved from 97 Sea Zone to 94 Sea Zone
            1 infantry moved from Libya to Tobruk
                  Italians take Tobruk from British
            1 carrier moved from 97 Sea Zone to 93 Sea Zone
            3 destroyers and 4 submarines moved from 97 Sea Zone to 92 Sea Zone
                  Italians take 97 Sea Zone from British
            2 fighters moved from 97 Sea Zone to 92 Sea Zone
            1 cruiser moved from 94 Sea Zone to 92 Sea Zone
            1 carrier moved from 93 Sea Zone to 92 Sea Zone
            1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Western Germany to 92 Sea Zone
            1 bomber moved from Caucasus to 92 Sea Zone

[MagicQ]

Big crash in Med sea. Scramble?

[seth4god]

Yes

[MagicQ]

need ool

31939 I8 ool.tsvg

[seth4god]

FYI

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1cS3hFwoBP0rWr3208jw1LAtCvHYa9Ji9uU8PwbCMIwM/edit?pli=1

With sub combat you should roll the battle out on the forum. I don’t do so when it’s say a sub+air vs a dd or dd+air vs sub. But it’s to roll on the forum once you start getting multiple units in the battle. As you start picking sub casualties without knowing how the rest of the battle will go.

I’ll accept this round of combat with subs, but I reserve the right to negate any subsequent combat rolls in triplea that involve subs.

cv*2, 2dd, ca

[MagicQ]

Did Triplea do it wrong in terms of the battle sequence in this case? If so, what’s wrong? I don’t get it.

[MagicQ]

I think the proper battle sequence would be

1. attacker roll
2. defender choose casualty
3. defender roll
4. attacker choose casualty

Italian subs attack first here is not a surprise attack. They can only hit warships so that they should roll separately  from other attackers.

[MagicQ]

Probably when defender’s sub present, things will get more complicated.

[seth4god]

Yes, I have destroyers present in the battle. So your sub special abilities are negated. But triplea still has your subs rolling first before everyone else, forcing casualty choices prior to the rest of the attacker’s dice. It does this with both defending and attacking subs and it’s wrong.

Quick example

I attack a sub with dd, ca, 2ftrs. In triplea the sub rolls first and gets a hit before the attacker knows if he’ll get the sub or not. If the attacker chooses to lose the dd and then all his units miss that sub escapes. If the attacker decides to play it safe and kill the cruiser, then he risks losing a more valuable piece for nothing if he gets a hit.

Or say there’s a massive slugfest w/10 subs in the attacking force. Those subs are rolled and produce 7 hits. The defender thinks that a battle he should win just went south in a hurry and loses some carriers because he ‘knows’ that the rest of the attackers are about to stomp him. Instead the rest of the attackers score just 5 hits despite hordes of air, ca, bbs, etc. Now the defender’s lost a bunch of his flight decks because he made casualty choices based on the sub rolls despite having destroyers to negate the subs.

[MagicQ]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.7

Game History

Round: 8

Purchase Units - Italians
            Italians buy 1 carrier, 1 destroyer and 1 infantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Combat Move - Italians
            1 cruiser moved from 97 Sea Zone to 94 Sea Zone
            1 infantry moved from Libya to Tobruk
                  Italians take Tobruk from British
            1 carrier moved from 97 Sea Zone to 93 Sea Zone
            3 destroyers and 4 submarines moved from 97 Sea Zone to 92 Sea Zone
                  Italians take 97 Sea Zone from British
            2 fighters moved from 97 Sea Zone to 92 Sea Zone
            1 cruiser moved from 94 Sea Zone to 92 Sea Zone
            1 carrier moved from 93 Sea Zone to 92 Sea Zone
            1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Western Germany to 92 Sea Zone
            1 bomber moved from Caucasus to 92 Sea Zone

Combat - Italians
            British scrambles 3 units out of Gibraltar to defend against the attack in 92 Sea Zone
            Battle in 92 Sea Zone
                Italians attack with 1 bomber, 1 carrier, 1 cruiser, 3 destroyers, 3 fighters, 4 submarines and 1 tactical_bomber
                French defend with 1 infantry; British defend with 1 battleship, 1 carrier, 1 cruiser, 3 destroyers, 5 fighters and 3 transports
                Units damaged: 1 battleship owned by the British
                Italians win with 1 bomber, 1 cruiser, 2 fighters and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 72
                Casualties for French: 1 infantry
                Casualties for British: 1 battleship, 1 carrier, 1 cruiser, 3 destroyers, 5 fighters and 3 transports
                Casualties for Italians: 1 carrier, 3 destroyers, 1 fighter and 4 submarines

Non Combat Move - Italians
            1 fighter could not land in 92 Sea Zone and was removed
            1 bomber moved from 92 Sea Zone to Southern France
            1 tactical_bomber moved from 92 Sea Zone to 93 Sea Zone
            1 fighter moved from 92 Sea Zone to 93 Sea Zone
            1 transport moved from 97 Sea Zone to 93 Sea Zone
            1 aaGun, 4 infantry and 1 mech_infantry moved from Caucasus to Northwest Persia
            1 artillery moved from Normandy Bordeaux to Southern France
            1 infantry moved from France to Southern France
            1 infantry moved from France to Northern Italy
            1 infantry moved from Northern Italy to Southern Italy

Place Units - Italians
            1 carrier and 1 destroyer placed in 93 Sea Zone
            1 infantry placed in Northern Italy

Turn Complete - Italians
            Italians collect 23 PUs; end with 23 PUs total
            Objective Italians 4 Control Iraq Or Persia Or Northwest Persia: Italians met a national objective for an additional 2 PUs; end with 25 PUs
            Objective Italians 1 Control The Mediterranean: Italians met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 30 PUs

[MagicQ]

Got a little bit of luck there.

[seth4god]

Ok and Nope

Reroll after the 2nd round since you ignored my stated wish.

[MagicQ]

Subs got 2 hits and there is only 2 warships so there is no choice for defender. What do you reckon?

[seth4god]

The battle was rolled illegally, hence the results aren’t valid. I told you why they were illegal and gave you the first round. But I stated that I would not accept any further sub combat that was rolled on triplea. That document clearly states that sub combat needs to be rolled on the forum and THAT’s what I’m protesting.

[MagicQ]

@seththenewb:

Yes, I have destroyers present in the battle. So your sub special abilities are negated. But triplea still has your subs rolling first before everyone else, forcing casualty choices prior to the rest of the attacker’s dice. It does this with both defending and attacking subs and it’s wrong.

Quick example

I attack a sub with dd, ca, 2ftrs. In triplea the sub rolls first and gets a hit before the attacker knows if he’ll get the sub or not. If the attacker chooses to lose the dd and then all his units miss that sub escapes. If the attacker decides to play it safe and kill the cruiser, then he risks losing a more valuable piece for nothing if he gets a hit.

Or say there’s a massive slugfest w/10 subs in the attacking force. Those subs are rolled and produce 7 hits. The defender thinks that a battle he should win just went south in a hurry and loses some carriers because he ‘knows’ that the rest of the attackers are about to stomp him. Instead the rest of the attackers score just 5 hits despite hordes of air, ca, bbs, etc. Now the defender’s lost a bunch of his flight decks because he made casualty choices based on the sub rolls despite having destroyers to negate the subs.

Thanks. I get what you mean by that. Attacker will take advantage of that little flaw of the software. But in most cases it won’t make any difference.

[seth4god]

I’m asking Gamer to get involved

[MagicQ]

@seththenewb:

The battle was rolled illegally, hence the results aren’t valid. I told you why they were illegal and gave you the first round. But I stated that I would not accept any further sub combat that was rolled on triplea. That document clearly states that sub combat needs to be rolled on the forum and THAT’s what I’m protesting.

I am not sure about that. How is that invalid? 2 subs hit 2 and there is only 2 warships. there is no need to ask for anything imho regardless of what the rest of Italian fleets do,

[MagicQ]

@seththenewb:

I’m asking Gamer to get involved

OK.

[MagicQ]

I think the problem will happen only when there are multiple chooses for defender.