XDAP Final… eh, i mean, Semifinal - Allweneedishank vs. TeamBoldDutch
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hank, are you working today? i am ready to post russia, but i’m gonna wait till later today since you likely cannot post till 5 or 6 pm anyway.
The sooner you post the better. I will be able to get my turn out tonight.
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ok here’s the deal. we do not provide always provide OOL’s prior to a battle being rolled, for obvious reasons. generally dutch or myself will be checking in every half hour or less during the day, starting from about 7-8am CST through 11-12pm cst. so be prepared to wait for casualty choices or else allow retroactive changes to the casualties. you can ask when you post the turn if there are any battles where we can provide ool’s but if you have to ask the question, the answer is probably that there are battles where we will not provide you an ool prior to you rolling any dice.
as to posting the combat move in all cases if there are dice to be rolled on the turn, are we in agreement that this will always be done?
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hank, are you working today? i am ready to post russia, but i’m gonna wait till later today since you likely cannot post till 5 or 6 pm anyway.
The sooner you post the better. I will be able to get my turn out tonight.
i have my move done, just waiting for dutch to get done with his workday to review it before i post. you never know, i could possibly make a mistake that he might catch.
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ok here’s the deal. we do not provide always provide OOL’s prior to a battle being rolled, for obvious reasons. generally dutch or myself will be checking in every half hour or less during the day, starting from about 7-8am CST through 11-12pm cst. so be prepared to wait for casualty choices or else allow retroactive changes to the casualties. you can ask when you post the turn if there are any battles where we can provide ool’s but if you have to ask the question, the answer is probably that there are battles where we will not provide you an ool prior to you rolling any dice.
as to posting the combat move in all cases if there are dice to be rolled on the turn, are we in agreement that this will always be done?
So if you don’t ask us for an ool, we get to change our casualties after the turn is over if we have surviving pieces? I don’t want that to happen and I don’t want to complicate this.
Can we just have one standard that we all follow every time so there is no dispute after the fact. I don’t want ambiguity getting in the way of what should be an excellent game, especially if Garg is ruling that penalties will be imposed for not asking even when the answer is obvious if the defender puts up a fuss.
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hank, i’m sorry but it is just not possible for us to give a standard ool. i’m not trying to be difficult, but it is really just not possible. ool can even be strongly influenced by the ORDER in which you perform the battles and what has happened in the previous battles.
i will say it again - we are checking in a LOT from our phones all throughout the day. there are some really obvious times to wait for ool - bombers on the ground, defense stacks with multiple nationalities, naval battles with capital ships/destroyers/subs/aircraft with/without naval or airbase support, etc. this game is incredibly complex when played well so there is just no possible way to give you a full ool for an entire turn prior to you rolling.
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you still haven’t answered my question. can we agree to post the combat move to the forum prior to rolling dice IF there are any dice to be rolled on the entire turn (including just convoy dice even). PLEASE CONFIRM
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you still haven’t answered my question. can we agree to post the combat move to the forum prior to rolling dice IF there are any dice to be rolled on the entire turn (including just convoy dice even). PLEASE CONFIRM
Sorry I missed the first post. I’m fine with it, but to be honest I don’t see the point now. If we are going to give scramble / intercepts / ools on a per battle basis then why bother?
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well, it obviously needs to be posted if there is a scramble or intercept choice. but also, there are other reasons you may not be aware of, but trust me, it’s good for everyone. so can we agree to do it? it takes about 5 seconds.
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I don’t speak for our team, so we’ll have to wait for my partner to log on so he can give his opinion on all that has been posted today.
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haha ok. we are talking about posting a map. but ok. :-D
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my turn won’t be coming until i hear from allweneed as to his thoughts on all of this discussion. i want crystal clear understanding before we proceed.
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my turn won’t be coming until i hear from allweneed as to his thoughts on all of this discussion. i want crystal clear understanding before we proceed.
Sure no problem.
I was thinking of a really easy solution, but I don’t know if you will go for it. (By the way I have yet to talk to my partner tonight).
All 4 of us are stand up guys who are playing this game to win by beating the opposite team and not to win because of a technicality. So if we assume that the opposing side is always making decisions with positive intentions then everything else we have discussed doesn’t matter. Positive intentions means you don’t need to ask for a scramble/intercept when the odds are overwhelming that you are going to win, you select casualties to keep maximum defenses, etc. If the odd time the choices you made are not what the defender would have done then the defender always has the right to ask for the battle to be re-done with scrambles, etc.
Bold, I can hear you screaming at your computer that we have discussed this at length already today, but this is the best option. Otherwise I will be asking you and Dutch for your decision for every single battle as I refuse to have this game decided by a penalty because I didn’t ask you if you wanted to scramble a plane that you would certainly lose. I know you have said you are by your phone/computer all day, but the reality is I am not. I have 15-20 minutes max to sit at the computer at any given time during the day which means my turns will take an eternity to complete.
So, simple question: regarding my first paragraph: yes or no (you don’t need to elaborate as I think I already know your answer). If yes, then let’s go, if no, we can wait for allweneedislove to weigh in and ultimately get Garg to give us a ruling.
Cheers
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the answer is no. the beauty of the whole situation is you are japan and are only making one move. we can both be online when you make that move (or at least i can) to give you instantaneous choices.
sound good?
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i hear what you are saying about “positive intentions” but the problem is there are strategic issues you are either not aware of or are not considering.
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don’t distress hank. most of your battles are going to be clear so i don’t see it being a big issue in this game.
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don’t distress hank. most of your battles are going to be clear so i don’t see it being a big issue in this game.
i mean japan’s battles.
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i know you played the ancients and you are probably still traumatized by their incredibly slow speed of play. we are freaking light speed compared to their snail’s pace.
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actually hank, while your logic may seem reasonable, it does not take into account a very important fact - the attacking player did not wait for an answer on the submerge or not submerge. therefore, rolled dice stand and the defender has the right to roll the sub or not. this is customary and correct when all is taken into account. rolled dice should always stand when there is not an illegal move.
magine this scenario hank and love, and you will see where you logic immediately breaks down in a similar (not exactly the same) example. you attack a sea zone that has a lone destroyer and an airbase with 3 fighters that can scramble. you attack with 5 ftr, tac, and a sub. you make the choice for your opponent that he will not scramble. you roll the battle and you whiff in the first round and he hits. you whiff in the second round and he hits. unlikely i know, but stuff like this happens to me all the time. now what? your attack against his 4 units (if full scramble) was 91% with 3 units remaining… but if he’s behind, he may take the chance of getting lucky!
now you say, well, if you want to scramble the entire battle has to be rerolled? i don’t think so. now, you could argue that you should not have to continue after round 1, but even that is an argument i would not want to pursue if i was in the attacker’s position.
I knew Allweneed’s policy of blowing by his opponent’s choices and then giving him the option of re-rolling the whole thing was going to cause a problem in the future, but I couldn’t get through to him.
Little did I know Dr. Bold would fully dissect it in a high stakes late tournament game….
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Gamer feel free to further elucidate the issues involved if you wish. It could be helpful to these guys. The thing is, it could also unfortunately enlighten them to some strategic issues of which they are currently unaware and improve their chances in this game. Tread thoughtfully please :wink:
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Please acknowledge that u understand that not asking for a casualty choice, scramble, intercept etc does NOT constitute an illegal move. Illegal means impossible but allowed by tripleA in error.
Hate to be difficult, but I believe not asking for scramble decisions is in fact illegal.
It is a rule in the rulebook that the defender makes a scramble decision before the game proceeds.
However, Allweneed’s MO for online play is to plow through the defender’s choice for expediency (which is ridiculous given that you have made it very clear that he would never have to wait for more than like 1 hour) and then give the defender the option to change the decision but the whole battle will be re-rolled.
I don’t have time right this minute to expound on the fallacy of this, but I just wanted to point out that I think it is in fact illegal to skip the defender’s choice without his express permission to skip certain choices (which is in itself a choice)
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