SO, if you want to roll the dice first, i will not later say to you - hang on, i want to scramble, so you have to reroll the entire battle. NO! if i want to scramble, your dice will stand. period. make sense?
bottom line, i stated it as clearly as could possibly be stated in the atlanta axis game thread at that time. so what i am doing is giving you ONE FREE PASS on the issue and giving you credit for not having read it or understood it.
so, roll away if you want rather than wait for our decisions, but it’s at your own risk - and the results could be PUNITIVE.
again, i can offer you this thought if you really really really feel like i am being a stickler for no good reason. you can leave the relevant battle for last and tell me to roll it out if you want, if you are so sure i will not scramble, etc. but if you make an assumption and roll dice, those dice will STAND no matter what. the only thing that will negate a rolled dice is if you have a unit attacking somewhere it could not possibly reach according to the rules.
this includes bombing runs. if you send 4 bombers at moscow and i have 2 possible interceptors, and you assume no scramble and have 2 bombers shot down by AA, i can retroactively scramble my fighters and if one of my ftrs hits you, you will be bombing moscow with only 1 bomber. which of the two dice you rolled for bombing can be determined by taking the FIRST dice. the bomber(s) shot down by interceptors will be assumed to be the damaged rolls moving from right to left.
i think when you realize how punitive this can be, you will decide that waiting a few minutes for our decision is preferable.
OK, couple of points here.
1. You posting your personal preferences in a game you are not a participant in does not make policy.
2. You not liking something, does not make policy.
3. This is something we should have addressed BEFORE starting this game. We didn’t, so let’s figure it out now.
A simple solution for all of us going forward is this:
1. Post every combat turn regardless of the complexity of combats.
2. Attacker states any battle that could have scrambles, interceptors or ool involved.
3. Defender gives their order(s) and the attacks can proceed.
If anyone thinks there is a way to game the defenders by this then we could do it battle by battle. I would prefer not to do this as I don’t like leaving an active combat turn running on my computer if it may be hours until I return to it. I have been burned by this in the past and it is annoying! But if that’s the consensus then so be it.
Sorry for the lists, the teacher in me can’t seem to avoid it!
i agree to the solution. to be clear, we will be posting the combat move prior to rolling regardless of whether there are decisions needed from the defender. i completely agree for reasons i do not need to go into because we have already agreed that it will be done this way.
now, if there are no dice to be rolled, a combat move need not be posted, obviously.
cheers
OK, couple of points here.
1. You posting your personal preferences in a game you are not a participant in does not make policy.
2. You not liking something, does not make policy.
3. This is something we should have addressed BEFORE starting this game. We didn’t, so let’s figure it out now.A simple solution for all of us going forward is this:
1. Post every combat turn regardless of the complexity of combats.
2. Attacker states any battle that could have scrambles, interceptors or ool involved.
3. Defender gives their order(s) and the attacks can proceed.If anyone thinks there is a way to game the defenders by this then we could do it battle by battle. I would prefer not to do this as I don’t like leaving an active combat turn running on my computer if it may be hours until I return to it. I have been burned by this in the past and it is annoying! But if that’s the consensus then so be it.
Sorry for the lists, the teacher in me can’t seem to avoid it!
to address your points in your first 1-3 list hank, i was not saying they were policy - i said it more to the point that if you read the posts, you can see that i do not consider not asking for a scramble choice to be an “illegal” move. thus allweneed’s point that what he did was “illegal” and we agreed with an illegal move to go back to reroll the entire battle - is not applicable. but i already said i’m extending the freebie here, i just want to make sure it never happens again.
it’s all good boys, i just want to keep everything moving smoothly! you may or may not be aware that decisions of this nature can have a major impact on the game - but if we do what we have agreed, we will not have a problem, and it will likely cost us very little time at all.
Also…
In the future, “assumptions” will leave the attacker at the “mercy” of the defender. I will say, it’s kind of bold to give you a freebie. It’s not a big deal to wait an hour or two for choices to be posted.
and to be clear, this IS now policy. because Gargantua has RULED.
hank, are you working today? i am ready to post russia, but i’m gonna wait till later today since you likely cannot post till 5 or 6 pm anyway.
If anyone thinks there is a way to game the defenders by this then we could do it battle by battle. I would prefer not to do this as I don’t like leaving an active combat turn running on my computer if it may be hours until I return to it. I have been burned by this in the past and it is annoying! But if that’s the consensus then so be it.
i’m not sure what you are referring to here. if you post the combat move and then get the orders from the defender, there should be no other reason to wait before completing the move. the only other decision you may need is a casualty choice. and of course, you should also wait for casualty choice or be prepared to allow a retroactive casualty choice and NO REROLLED DICE. if i say i would have kept a bomber, then the bomber roll would be the very first dice rolled instead of the two’s (or whatever) you kept for me instead.
so, to be clear again: if you attack with 2 inf, 2 ftr, 2 tac and i have 2 bom, 2 inf. you hit once in round 1 and take off my bomber. i hit once in defense. round 2 you whiff on attack and take off my bomber and i roll a 2 for the bomber and a 1, 2 for the “infantry”. round 3 you whiff and i roll another 2 for the bomber and 3, 2 for the “infanty”. then round 4 you hit me once and i roll a 1 for the bomber and a 1, 3 for the “infantry”.
so, you are wiped out and i am left with 2 units - in your mind “infantry”. i can say that no, those two units are bombers. clear enough?
i’m not sure what you are referring to here. if you post the combat move and then get the orders from the defender, there should be no other reason to wait before completing the move. the only other decision you may need is a casualty choice. and of course, you should also wait for casualty choice or be prepared to allow a retroactive casualty choice and NO REROLLED DICE. if i say i would have kept a bomber, then the bomber roll would be the very first dice rolled instead of the two’s (or whatever) you kept for me instead.
What I am saying is that I don’t want to start a combat turn, pause to ask for scramble orders, roll one round, pause again to ask for your casualties, roll the second round, pause for casualties and so on. This can be the case for major game-changing battles, but it has caused me headaches in the past due to having to leave an active combat turn open on my computer for an extended period of time.
I would rather have the defender state all scramble orders, intercepts and ools before any dice are rolled.
Otherwise the only solution I can see is to only roll dice when one of you is online and can respond immediately (as in within minutes not hours).
hank, are you working today? i am ready to post russia, but i’m gonna wait till later today since you likely cannot post till 5 or 6 pm anyway.
The sooner you post the better. I will be able to get my turn out tonight.
ok here’s the deal. we do not provide always provide OOL’s prior to a battle being rolled, for obvious reasons. generally dutch or myself will be checking in every half hour or less during the day, starting from about 7-8am CST through 11-12pm cst. so be prepared to wait for casualty choices or else allow retroactive changes to the casualties. you can ask when you post the turn if there are any battles where we can provide ool’s but if you have to ask the question, the answer is probably that there are battles where we will not provide you an ool prior to you rolling any dice.
as to posting the combat move in all cases if there are dice to be rolled on the turn, are we in agreement that this will always be done?
hank, are you working today? i am ready to post russia, but i’m gonna wait till later today since you likely cannot post till 5 or 6 pm anyway.
The sooner you post the better. I will be able to get my turn out tonight.
i have my move done, just waiting for dutch to get done with his workday to review it before i post. you never know, i could possibly make a mistake that he might catch.
ok here’s the deal. we do not provide always provide OOL’s prior to a battle being rolled, for obvious reasons. generally dutch or myself will be checking in every half hour or less during the day, starting from about 7-8am CST through 11-12pm cst. so be prepared to wait for casualty choices or else allow retroactive changes to the casualties. you can ask when you post the turn if there are any battles where we can provide ool’s but if you have to ask the question, the answer is probably that there are battles where we will not provide you an ool prior to you rolling any dice.
as to posting the combat move in all cases if there are dice to be rolled on the turn, are we in agreement that this will always be done?
So if you don’t ask us for an ool, we get to change our casualties after the turn is over if we have surviving pieces? I don’t want that to happen and I don’t want to complicate this.
Can we just have one standard that we all follow every time so there is no dispute after the fact. I don’t want ambiguity getting in the way of what should be an excellent game, especially if Garg is ruling that penalties will be imposed for not asking even when the answer is obvious if the defender puts up a fuss.
hank, i’m sorry but it is just not possible for us to give a standard ool. i’m not trying to be difficult, but it is really just not possible. ool can even be strongly influenced by the ORDER in which you perform the battles and what has happened in the previous battles.
i will say it again - we are checking in a LOT from our phones all throughout the day. there are some really obvious times to wait for ool - bombers on the ground, defense stacks with multiple nationalities, naval battles with capital ships/destroyers/subs/aircraft with/without naval or airbase support, etc. this game is incredibly complex when played well so there is just no possible way to give you a full ool for an entire turn prior to you rolling.
you still haven’t answered my question. can we agree to post the combat move to the forum prior to rolling dice IF there are any dice to be rolled on the entire turn (including just convoy dice even). PLEASE CONFIRM
you still haven’t answered my question. can we agree to post the combat move to the forum prior to rolling dice IF there are any dice to be rolled on the entire turn (including just convoy dice even). PLEASE CONFIRM
Sorry I missed the first post. I’m fine with it, but to be honest I don’t see the point now. If we are going to give scramble / intercepts / ools on a per battle basis then why bother?
well, it obviously needs to be posted if there is a scramble or intercept choice. but also, there are other reasons you may not be aware of, but trust me, it’s good for everyone. so can we agree to do it? it takes about 5 seconds.
