TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.7
Game History
Round: 1
Combat Move - French
Non Combat Move - French
1 infantry moved from Morocco to Algeria
1 infantry moved from Tunisia to Algeria
1 infantry moved from French West Africa to French Central Africa
1 infantry moved from Syria to Trans-Jordan
1 destroyer moved from 72 Sea Zone to 58 Sea Zone
Turn Complete - French
TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.7
Game History
Round: 2
Politics - Germans
Purchase Units - Germans
Germans buy 11 artilleries, 1 infantry and 5 mech_infantrys; Remaining resources: 1 PUs;
Combat Move - Germans
2 artilleries and 1 mech_infantry moved from France to Normandy Bordeaux
1 artillery and 1 mech_infantry moved from France to Southern France
1 fighter moved from Southern Italy to Southern France
1 tactical_bomber moved from Holland Belgium to Southern France
1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Holland Belgium to Normandy Bordeaux
1 submarine moved from 91 Sea Zone to 110 Sea Zone
1 bomber, 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Western Germany to 110 Sea Zone
1 bomber and 1 fighter moved from Holland Belgium to 110 Sea Zone
1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from 112 Sea Zone to 110 Sea Zone
Combat - Germans
Battle in Normandy Bordeaux
Germans attack with 2 artilleries, 1 fighter, 1 mech_infantry and 1 tactical_bomber
French defend with 1 artillery, 1 factory_minor, 1 harbour and 1 infantry
Germans roll dice for 2 artilleries, 1 fighter, 1 mech_infantry and 1 tactical_bomber in Normandy Bordeaux, round 2 : 1/5 hits
French roll dice for 1 artillery and 1 infantry in Normandy Bordeaux, round 2 : 0/2 hits
1 infantry owned by the French lost in Normandy Bordeaux
Germans roll dice for 2 artilleries, 1 fighter, 1 mech_infantry and 1 tactical_bomber in Normandy Bordeaux, round 3 : 1/5 hits
French roll dice for 1 artillery in Normandy Bordeaux, round 3 : 1/1 hits
1 artillery owned by the French and 1 artillery owned by the Germans lost in Normandy Bordeaux
Germans win, taking Normandy Bordeaux from French with 1 artillery, 1 fighter, 1 mech_infantry and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
Casualties for Germans: 1 artillery
Casualties for French: 1 artillery and 1 infantry
Battle in Southern France
Germans attack with 1 artillery, 1 fighter, 1 mech_infantry and 1 tactical_bomber
French defend with 1 artillery, 1 factory_minor and 1 harbour
Germans roll dice for 1 artillery, 1 fighter, 1 mech_infantry and 1 tactical_bomber in Southern France, round 2 : 3/4 hits
French roll dice for 1 artillery in Southern France, round 2 : 0/1 hits
1 artillery owned by the French lost in Southern France
Germans win, taking Southern France from French with 1 artillery, 1 fighter, 1 mech_infantry and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 4
Casualties for French: 1 artillery
Battle in 110 Sea Zone
Germans attack with 2 bombers, 3 fighters, 1 submarine and 2 tactical_bombers
French defend with 1 cruiser
Germans roll dice for 1 submarine in 110 Sea Zone, round 2 : 0/1 hits
Germans roll dice for 2 bombers, 3 fighters and 2 tactical_bombers in 110 Sea Zone, round 2 : 2/7 hits
French roll dice for 1 cruiser in 110 Sea Zone, round 2 : 1/1 hits
1 cruiser owned by the French and 1 submarine owned by the Germans lost in 110 Sea Zone
Germans win with 2 bombers, 3 fighters and 2 tactical_bombers remaining. Battle score for attacker is 6
Casualties for Germans: 1 submarine
Casualties for French: 1 cruiser
Non Combat Move - Germans
3 armour moved from Yugoslavia to Poland
2 artilleries and 6 infantry moved from Yugoslavia to Romania
5 infantry moved from Bulgaria to Romania
1 aaGun moved from Western Germany to Germany
2 aaGuns moved from Holland Belgium to Western Germany
6 armour and 2 mech_infantrys moved from France to Germany
2 infantry moved from Norway to Finland
1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Southern France to Southern Italy
1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Normandy Bordeaux to Southern Italy
1 submarine moved from 106 Sea Zone to 123 Sea Zone
1 submarine moved from 106 Sea Zone to 103 Sea Zone
1 submarine moved from 112 Sea Zone to 109 Sea Zone
2 bombers, 3 fighters and 2 tactical_bombers moved from 110 Sea Zone to Western Germany
Place Units - Germans
10 artilleries placed in Germany
1 artillery, 1 infantry and 5 mech_infantrys placed in Western Germany
Turn Complete - Germans
Germans collect 44 PUs; end with 45 PUs total
Trigger Germans 5 Swedish Iron Ore: Germans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 50 PUs
Objective Germans 1 Trade with Russia: Germans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 55 PUs
Territory Summary for Germans :
Normandy Bordeaux : 1 flag, 1 artillery, 1 factory_minor, 1 harbour and 1 mech_infantry
Southern France : 1 flag, 1 artillery, 1 factory_minor, 1 harbour and 1 mech_infantry
France : 1 flag, 1 airfield and 1 factory_minor
Western Germany : 2 aaGuns, 1 airfield, 1 artillery, 2 bombers, 1 factory_major, 3 fighters, 1 harbour, 1 infantry, 5 mech_infantrys and 2 tactical_bombers
Romania : 2 artilleries and 11 infantry
Poland : 3 aaGuns, 3 armour, 3 artilleries and 14 infantry
Germany : 1 aaGun, 6 armour, 10 artilleries, 1 factory_major and 2 mech_infantrys
Southern Italy : 2 fighters and 2 tactical_bombers
112 Sea Zone : 1 carrier, 1 cruiser, 1 destroyer and 1 transport
123 Sea Zone : 1 submarine
106 Sea Zone : 1 flag
Bulgaria : 1 flag
109 Sea Zone : 1 submarine
103 Sea Zone : 1 submarine
Yugoslavia : 1 flag
91 Sea Zone : 1 submarine
Finland : 1 flag, 9 infantry
Production/PUs Summary :
Germans : 44 / 55
Russians : 37 / 38
Japanese : 29 / 45
Americans : 52 / 56
Chinese : 9 / 15
British : 28 / 33
UK_Pacific : 21 / 28
Italians : 12 / 13
ANZAC : 14 / 14
French : 10 / 0
Dutch : 3 / 0
Mongolians : 0 / 0
Neutral_Axis : 2 / 0
Neutral_Allies : 4 / 0
Neutral_True : 18 / 0
Um…. no scramble request? 7 units on 4 is not a no brainer. Especially when your buy is 17 ground units.
8 on 4 I should say.
sorry for the assumption.
if you like we can go back to the point in time when i made the erroneous assumption and correct it.
would you like to scramble?
sorry for the assumption.
if you like we can go back to the point in time when i made the erroneous assumption and correct it.
would you like to scramble?
Love need I refresh your memory? The dice rolled will stand per my prior warning. If I were to say scramble u will be rolling for my 3 ftrs and then round 2.
while i am not happy that i messed up, i am glad that our million pregame posts were not in vain
…
if there is an illegal combat that arises throughout the game(could be due to lack of rules knowledge or just a mouse slip) i suggest that the opposing team can do one of two things. either play the the turn legit, or keep the illegal move.1. tell the offending team to keep the illegal move as is and play on.
2. go back to the moment/roll of the actual error and redo the combat from that point ignoring all other dice that rolled after the illegal move.this allows the non-offending team to pick what is best for their side…
I agree with your post regarding an illegal move…
if you and dutch do decide to scramble(let us know before the ussr turn) i will roll it via the forum.
Wrong. What u did was not an illegal move. It was a bad assumption. I will show you the relevant text from your thread with atlanta axis soon. I covered this exact scenario exhaustively. The definition of an illegal move is a move that tripleA allows but that cannot be legally accomplished per the rulebook. What you did is legal and I specifically said if u ever did something like this the dice would stand as rolled. Its so simple I dont know why u want to make it difficult.
I give u choices within minutes if not seconds…. for crying out loud what is so tough to understand. This is the final man.
Bottom line if there was no sub and cruiser involved in the battle that would be a little different (u could say roll it before ussr if u want to) but you rolled dice man and the dice always stand unless the move is illegal.
Tell u what love. In a show of good faith I will let this go and give u credit for not understanding the terminology. But for future reference what u did was not illegal and the dice should stand. If u want to assume no scramble and roll no dice that is fine. But all other dice in your round will stand in that case… I dont want to hear u say something like “ok if u want to scramble I will reroll ALL the battles”. Come on man it takes only a minute or two to ask.
Another option for u in a case like this is roll all other battles and noncom your planes as though I didnt scramble then tell me to roll the dice before ussr. That would be perfectly fine.
If u r so certain I am not going to scramble then this makes good sense. And of coursw if I dis you could then take over the move again and redo your noncom. But NO more of this rolling then saying u will go back and reroll if I want to scramble. Ok?
Please acknowledge that u understand that not asking for a casualty choice, scramble, intercept etc does NOT constitute an illegal move. Illegal means impossible but allowed by tripleA in error.
Boy do I love waking up to AA conflict!
Alright, here’s my attempt at resolving this. (Please read the entire post before responding)
1. This specific scrambling decision
Collectively I believe the 4 of us have played over 100 games this year alone. In that time we have all developed ways in which to speed up games. Not asking for obvious scramble (where defeat is certain) is one such way. Without having actually walked through the combat on triplea, this is what I believe has happened here.
This is certainly a mistake by my partner and constitutes an illegal move The rulebook clearly states that a scramble decision must be made prior to dice being rolled. Now, what to do with illegal moves / not asking for scramble decision.
2. What to do with illegal moves / not asking for scramble decision
There is no scenario in the Axis and Allies rulebook where either an attacker or defender gets to make a decision after gaining knowledge of the dice rolls. In other words, dice rolls always happen last. There are no caveats for punishing players for making mistakes or illegal moves.
3. We Need to Make a Table Rule
We need to make a table rule about how we are going to handle mistakes / illegal moves. Obviously our team’s preference is to re-roll any combat rolls from the beginning (not the entire turn, just single combats where the issue has arisen).
If your team does not agree with that, then let’s discuss making a table rule with the caveat that if you would like to re-roll the conflicted attack in question it must be re-rolled from the beginning. Any table rules we make will be applied from R2 onwards.
I hope this makes sense and we can discuss this reasonably.
Sighhhhhhhh. I will go back to the atlanta axis game and pull the directly relevant text. And I am saying, lets clarify the term illegal. I do not define illegal as you do. I do not want to reroll dice in a situation like this. There are many reasons that I want to be asked about scramble BEFORE the dice are rolled… trustme there are some. And your solution of lets just reroll the battle Iis NOT cool with me. Listen guys, I check in all the time during a tourney. It is not like we are halfway around the world and sleeping for many hours while u are awake. And We both wake up early.
From now on stop and ask when there are naval units involved. I am still considwring having this entire battle rerolled, so that tells me allweneed made a doubly bad decision. I say doubly bad because it is not obvious, it is merely borderline. I said early on when in doubt ask. And that I am on all the time. And u will soon see again what I wrote in your antlant game directly addressing a case like this.
This ia the final. I think you said before, we have bewn playing for over a year and here we r at the end. What is a few extra seconds, minutes, hours? Lets play a clean game… we r not the ancients. We r the OPPOSITE of the ancients as it relates to game speed (and most everything else). So chill out and ask from now on or be preparwd to abide by the statements I am about to repost from your atlanta game.
This game is going to be tight and I am going to do some things that will surprise you. So stop it already with the scramble assumptions. I can see the next thing coming… u make a casualty choice like take off a bomber first on my defense somewhere or a destroyer in a naval battle. Then when I say I would have done it a different way u say it was “illegal” for u to choose my casualty and so we must go back to where u made the choice and reroll. No way. And this is also covered by what I am about to post from your atlanta game. Im very surprised u guys are in the final and I am having to cover such elementary topics. Come on dudes.
Boldfresh reminds me of my brother…
It sounds like you guys are moving forward on this issue. So I won’t make a ruling.
In my experience, and if was forced to make a ruling however, it would be that the entire battle is re-rolled.
Based on these points:
A. If the Germans had rolled 6 hits instead of 2, and the allies had actually wanted to scramble, the allies would be well within their right to demand a reroll of the entire battle.
B. Just because we now “see” an chance to nuke a few extra german aircraft, doesn’t mean that one can opportunistically scramble.
C. Keeping “some” dice in a battle, and adding others, is a slippery slope, and should always be avoided.
D. The decision to scramble, comes BEFORE dice are rolled, and by forcing the entire battle to be rerolled, the allies who were “denied” their right to scramble, are now properly faced with the exactly same choice they would have been given prior to the battle, (This prevents the game from being skewed).
E. I don’t believe the allies would have scrambled. But of course… feel free to scramble, and reroll the entire battle if I am wrong.
That said.
No more “Assumptions” should be made. That’s the big problem here.
