• There were so many reasons to go after Saddam. My personal thoughts are that WMD was a lame reason. Kinda like getting Capone on taxes.

    Such was my analysis way before the war declaration. However, it (WMD) did get some UN support.


  • He may have a temporary bounce now, but we’ll see if it lasts the weekend. It may, but it also may not.

    But what has been forgotten since the RNC is that Kerry held an edge over Bush for a very long time up until then. That he has now regained this edge only affirms what has been known by pollsters for a year, and that is Bushs approval is low while his disapproval is high. The bigger question is whether Kerrys poll numbers can translate into votes and wins. Gore won the popular vote but lost the election. It is therefore incumbent upon Kerry to win Ohio, Penn and Florida or some of the smaller states like Iowa, Wisc, Nevada etc.


  • Ohio and Pa are very key this year, no republican has ever won without ohio, and if PA is a battleground state, and its one of the more liberal states, then kerry should be worried.


  • Janus,
    How do I know he disarmed? Well, my assumption is that he did have WMD at some point. They are not there now, so…


  • PA is a battleground state, and its one of the more liberal states, then kerry should be worried.

    I don’t think so. Penn while it has pockets of liberalism is very conservative in the Western part of the state. Like most states the urban areas tend to be the most liberal. So Philly which is really big tends to distort how leftist the state by in large is.


  • with big cities like pittsburgh and philly, the liberals usually have tight control.


  • Lizard: the fact that they arent there now doesnt mean he disarmed. he could have hid them better than we counted on, or moved them out of the country. whether or not saddam still had them in his possession doesnt mean the weapons still arent in the wrong hands.
    now im not sure exactly what the resolutions stipulated as fulfilling the disarmament demands, but i think that giving them to a fellow loose cannon wouldnt count. do i know he did this? no. but i find it more likely that this happened then that he actually disarmed.


  • Janus,
    I understand your position. If I did not know Sadam’s history in the region I might agree. The truth is Sadam was… shall we say a pretty bad neighbor. In Desert Storm we where given a nod by all the surrounding Arab nations because everyone knew Sadam would have hit them next (if he had not alread, ie Iran, Kwait). Finding a buddy to give em too would have been hard in other words. A quote comes to mind. “The only men that keep secrets are dead men.” Had they been given to someone, we would know now. Heck, I am 100% sure they would be using them on our soldiers, if they had em.
    In the final analysis, Sadam wanted to stay in power. He was willing to do anything to stay in power. Certainly destroy the weapons.


  • that is possible, and becoming ever more lucky every day. but honestly, i truly think saddam hid them in some way. yes, he wanted to stay in power at all costs, but he was also power hungry. he wanted to hold onto the powere the WMDs gave him. i feel confident that even if the actual weapons were destroyed, he kept the means and the methods to build them. i dont expect you to agree with me, i have no factual basis for this, im just saying, my instinct tells me he still had them, or the capacity to get more.


  • he could have just dug a hole and buried weapons in the middle of no were.


  • no, im confident he didnt do that. among other things, there are ways of seeing them from satellites. but i do think he did SOMETHING to keep them, or the means to get them. i dont know what, and i cant prove it, but i just feel it


  • @Janus1:

    no, im confident he didnt do that. among other things, there are ways of seeing them from satellites. but i do think he did SOMETHING to keep them, or the means to get them. i dont know what, and i cant prove it, but i just feel it

    I believe he had weapons that could hurt people butt nothing of quote un quote “Mass-Destruction”… :roll:


  • One thought is that Saddam honestly thought he had the WMD, and so acted like he had something to hide, leading the CIA, British Intelligence, (John Kerry :lol:), etc., to believe he did. Somehow I doubt that the scientists who were supposed to be getting him his WMD would want to tell him “sorry, we haven’t got them yet,” especially because Saddam had a habit of torturing and killing those who disappointed him.


  • but WMDs extends beyond nukes. biological and chemical weapons are included. chemical weapons he certianly had, probably biological too. nukes are less likely, but possible


  • WMD… What are WMD? How does one make WMD? Being honest, the tough part is knowledge. I would bet dollars to donuts CC could make some interesting WMD if he wanted to. Frankly, I am pretty sure I could. Even if it does take special skill, how many Chemical Engineers live in Iraq? How many Microbiologists? How many world wide? It’s achedemic really. It’s a waste of energy.
    If I was one of them how would I hurt America? Simple, use whats there. Use whats easy. Like they did on 9/11. Why smuggle crap that could be noticed? Why waste time bringing a weapon that I could accidentally trip and kill myself. Dumb. These people are not dumb. They will find drones and give them a plan. An easy plan. They will say, find a train that carries whatever nasty substance you wish to name. Or find a truck carrying it. Get your hands on it and put it someplace like a water supply, or downwind or whatever. How hard is it to derail a train, or a truck? Anyone and I mean anyone can make a bomb. Have a bomb ready to strap to the pile of bad news…
    This is what you should fear, if you are gonna spend time being afraid.
    If you want a safer country, spend money watching our boarders. Spend money on cops, FBI, CIA, Firefighters and forcing companies to take great care with dangerous materials.
    Finally, spend some time trying to make sure as few people as possible hate us so much they will commit suicide to kill afew of us. Fear will not work. Someone willing to die, even hopeful it will happen will not be intimidated.
    This is why Iraq makes me angry. 120 Billion dollars. That would pay a bunch of boarder patrol. It would pay a bunch of Cops. It might have made the differance on actually “getting” Al quida.
    Regardless, I still believe the threat is overblown. Maybe I am kidding myself. If so I choose to keep kidding myself. I have kids to raise and a life to live. I will not do it in fear. Being prepared makes sense. We would be spending money in AMerica my way so everybody wins. Fighting them there, so we don’t have to fight them here? Get real. Our boarders are swiss cheese. (See the post on cigars) It only takes one guy to do what I mentioned above. If we cared about being safe we would start at home.



  • @Wargaming_nut:

    One thought is that Saddam honestly thought he had the WMD, and so acted like he had something to hide, leading the CIA, British Intelligence, (John Kerry :lol:), etc., to believe he did. Somehow I doubt that the scientists who were supposed to be getting him his WMD would want to tell him “sorry, we haven’t got them yet,” especially because Saddam had a habit of torturing and killing those who disappointed him.

    according to an AMERICAN report on Iraq, not only had Iraq not had any WMD since the mid 90’s (i.e. well before 2003). Apparently Saddam didn’t care about anyone other than Iran and he did not wish to disclose his disarmament for fear of being a target of the Iranians (i.e. the people who actually HAVE a WMD program and a dictatorship/regime.
    Shame on Saddam. Who is he to not want to reveal state secrets before the rest of the world. If this is a cause for invasion, then why is any other country in the world safe?

    And LB - you’re correct. Myself and another former grad/medical student friend of mine had figured out a few ways to develop and disseminate WMD involving a bathtub, some chicken-base, and a herd of cows.

    and ctm - i missed the “you forgot poland” reference - is this simply from Bush correcting Kerry with regards to his “coalition of the bullied/blackmailed/bribed”?


  • @cystic:

    and ctm - i missed the “you forgot poland” reference - is this simply from Bush correcting Kerry with regards to his “coalition of the bullied/blackmailed/bribed”?

    Yep, pretty much :wink:

    It was just that he figured he had such a good point with “You forgot Poland!”, and people are finding it pretty funny.

    What’s his name… Jon Stewart - from ‘Daily Show With Jon Stewart’ on the comedy network in Canada - has used it a few times in his show by now.

    (on Bush’s quote) “Australia was in the coalition, okay, and then… Poland?? Now, you know you’re in trouble when your number two country is Poland.”


  • @ctm:

    @cystic:

    and ctm - i missed the “you forgot poland” reference - is this simply from Bush correcting Kerry with regards to his “coalition of the bullied/blackmailed/bribed”?

    Yep, pretty much :wink:

    It was just that he figured he had such a good point with “You forgot Poland!”, and people are finding it pretty funny.

    What’s his name… Jon Stewart - from ‘Daily Show With Jon Stewart’ on the comedy network in Canada - has used it a few times in his show by now.

    (on Bush’s quote) “Australia was in the coalition, okay, and then… Poland?? Now, you know you’re in trouble when your number two country is Poland.”

    hahahaha!!!
    i have to admit - Jon Stewart is one of the few shows i watch with any regularity whatsoever.
    I makes fun of both candidates effectively, but the funniest thing is that all he has to do to make fun of Bush is to simply run clips of him and rub his eyes with his hands.


  • @cystic:

    hahahaha!!!
    i have to admit - Jon Stewart is one of the few shows i watch with any regularity whatsoever.
    I makes fun of both candidates effectively, but the funniest thing is that all he has to do to make fun of Bush is to simply run clips of him and rub his eyes with his hands.

    ahahahaha, I hear ya :lol: Looking forward to his show on the second debate :)

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