Best Individual German Record

[KurtGodel7]

@Herr:

I never heard or read anything before about this “VI rocket bomb”. The article you quote mentions both the well-known V1 and the “VI”. Since a modified V1 was indeed flown by Hanna Reitsch but would be entirely unable to reach the height mentioned, I’m curious about the “VI rocket bomb”. Do you have any additional information on it?

To be honest, I’m not completely sure what the author meant by the “VI rocket bomb.” One possibility is that it was a reference to the V-1e; a manned variant of the V1.

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Late in the war, several air-launched piloted V-1s, known as Reichenbergs, were built, but never used in combat. Hanna Reitsch made some flights in the modified V-1 Fieseler Reichenberg when she was asked to find out why test pilots were unable to land it and had died as a result.

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Those are not the circumstances under which I’d like to be asked to fly something! :o But Reitsch did the test flight anyway and figured out what was wrong. Go here for more information about the V-1e.

However, it seems far more likely that she would have set altitude records flying rocket-powered aircraft than something powered with a pulse-jet, like the V-1 or V-1e. Granted, she test flew rocket powered aircraft such as the Komet. But that doesn’t get us any closer to understanding whatever the author meant by the “VI rocket bomb.”

Nazi Germany made a series of suborbital space flights in 1944. They achieved altitudes of 176 km / 109 miles. My impression is that none of these rockets were manned.

[Herr Kaleunt]

I went with Otto Kretschmer on this one. Maybe not the best one, it is impossible to tell.

But I have always been fascinated about the fate of the U-boat crews. Seems to me they were all doomed, sooner or later they would be hit by a depth charge - the more patrols they survived, the greater was the chance for not surviving the next one. Just like playing Russian roulette without spinning the cylinder between each pull of the trigger. I guess  Kretschmer would be KIA if he had not ben captured so early.

[CWO Marc]

@Herr:

It’s entirely a side note, but I couldn’t help noticing the irony that “astronaut’s wings” are awarded for reaching an altitude that lies far above where wings can carry you.

Yes, it’s an expresion which doesn’t hold up very well when you look at it closely.  Another example is the Long Lance torpedo which I mentioned in another thread.  It’s commonly described as an oxygen-fueled torpedo, but of course oxygen is actually an oxidizer rather than a fuel.

[KurtGodel7]

@CWO:

The Fédération Aéronautique Internationale’s definition of an astronaut is somebody who has flown above an altitude of 100 km (62 miles), the point at which the atmosphere becomes too thin to support winged flight.  That works out to 327,360 feet. Hannah Reitsch would have had to go four times higher than 80,000 feet to earn an astronaut’s wings.

I’ve done some more thinking about your post and Herr KaLeun’s post about what the article described as the “VI rocket bomb.” Below represents what I feel is what most likely happened.

1. The Germans attached a small, rocket-powered plane, such as the Komet, to some larger aircraft.
2. The larger aircraft reached the best speed/elevation it reasonably could.
3. The pilot of the rocket-powered aircraft (Hanna Reitsch) detached from the larger aircraft and ignited the rocket engines.
4. Almost immediately, she went into a vertical climb, and continued to climb until the rocket fuel ran out. She attained an elevation which could not be reached by piston- or jet-driven aircraft. In doing so, she met the reporter’s own, personal definition of the word “astronaut.”
5. The reporter knew in vague terms that the above is what happened. He also knew that Hanna Reitsch had test-flown a manned version of the V1. He got the manned version of the V1 confused with the rocket-powered plane described in 1 - 4.
6. The reporter mistakenly believed the V1 was rocket powered–like a less advanced version of the V2. He did not realize that the V1 was powered with a pulse jet, not a rocket.
7. The reporter didn’t know whether the Germans used the number 1 to designate the V1; or the Roman numeral I. He therefore sometimes referred to the V1; and sometimes to the VI; with the I in this case representing the Roman numeral one.
8. A charming, intelligent, wonderful fellow posted a portion of the reporter’s article to a WWII discussion board. This otherwise great guy naively trusted the reporter to do his fact checking correctly.
9. Posts from knowledgeable people like CWO Marc and Herr KaLeun demonstrated that the amazing guy described in 8 had been wrong to trust the reporter’s fact checking so completely.

[aequitas-et-veritas]

Reichenbergs V I’s also known as Selbstopfer Gerät, wich means like Suicide-apparatus or bomber…

1st picture shows Allied soldiers capturing a Reichenberg V I

2nd picture shows a Reichenberg V I with Testpilot on a testing ranch in Germany

Data:

Flightweight: 2,25 t
Weight of warhead: arround 800 kg
It is reaching 300 km after unlinking from a Carrier plane in 2500 meters of altitude
Running time aprox. : 32 minutes

[aequitas-et-veritas]

Sideview of a Reichenberg V I

U.S. soldier presenting a Fi-103 R on a Truck.
April 23rd 1945 ,5th. U.S. Armoured Division have taken Luftmuna Neu Tramm at Dannenberg on the river Elbe and found a Large number of one and two seated »Reichenberg«-Flugkörpern. It was a manned version of Fieseler Fi-103, wich were ready to run for suicide missions.

[KaLeu]

@KurtGodel7:

@CWO:

The F�d�ration A�ronautique Internationale’s definition of an astronaut is somebody who has flown above an altitude of 100 km (62 miles), the point at which the atmosphere becomes too thin to support winged flight.  That works out to 327,360 feet. Hannah Reitsch would have had to go four times higher than 80,000 feet to earn an astronaut’s wings.

I’ve done some more thinking about your post and Herr KaLeun’s post about what the article described as the “VI rocket bomb.” Below represents what I feel is what most likely happened.

1. The Germans attached a small, rocket-powered plane, such as the Komet, to some larger aircraft.
2. The larger aircraft reached the best speed/elevation it reasonably could.
3. The pilot of the rocket-powered aircraft (Hanna Reitsch) detached from the larger aircraft and ignited the rocket engines.
4. Almost immediately, she went into a vertical climb, and continued to climb until the rocket fuel ran out. She attained an elevation which could not be reached by piston- or jet-driven aircraft. In doing so, she met the reporter’s own, personal definition of the word “astronaut.”
5. The reporter knew in vague terms that the above is what happened. He also knew that Hanna Reitsch had test-flown a manned version of the V1. He got the manned version of the V1 confused with the rocket-powered plane described in 1 - 4.
6. The reporter mistakenly believed the V1 was rocket powered–like a less advanced version of the V2. He did not realize that the V1 was powered with a pulse jet, not a rocket.
7. The reporter didn’t know whether the Germans used the number 1 to designate the V1; or the Roman numeral I. He therefore sometimes referred to the V1; and sometimes to the VI; with the I in this case representing the Roman numeral one.
8. A charming, intelligent, wonderful fellow posted a portion of the reporter’s article to a WWII discussion board. This otherwise great guy naively trusted the reporter to do his fact checking correctly.
9. Posts from knowledgeable people like CWO Marc and Herr KaLeun demonstrated that the amazing guy described in 8 had been wrong to trust the reporter’s fact checking so completely.

Thanks for your analysis, Kurt. It seems like a reasonable explanation, and it would have been a spectacular and daring stunt to pull off especially in those pioneering days.
The last two points gave me a chuckle.

[KurtGodel7]

@ABWorsham:

I was surprised by Kurt Knispel’s bio, and even more surprised that he did not bear a Knight’s Cross. Started in a Panzer I & II and ended commanding a Tiger.

I was very tempted to make Kurt Knispel one of my two choices. It came down to him and Rudel. (Obviously I was going to vote for Hartmann no matter who else I voted for.)

You’d think that the highest-scoring tank commander in human history–Knispel–would have deserved a Knight’s Cross. I think the reason he didn’t get one was political: neither his haircut nor his facial hair were regulation; and he didn’t quite fit in. On the other hand, you could argue that every tank he destroys represents a certain number of German lives saved. The lives the enemy tank would otherwise have taken, had Knispel not destroyed it. You’d think that saving the lives of hundreds or thousands of German soldiers–nearly all of whom undoubtedly had regulation haircuts–would have made up for the fact Knispel’s hair was slightly longer than his superiors might have preferred.

I hope that Knispel gets some of the votes in this poll, because he certainly deserves some.

[Witt]

Good argument KurtGodel. Until Worsham introduced his name, I had not heard of him.
I confess I fell for Nazi propaganda as a young boy and Wittmann has been my tank hero ever since.
That said, I love reading and learning about German tanks, so  reading about Knispel has been interesting.

[ABWorsham4]

I agree with you both, Knispel deserves more recognition.

[KurtGodel7]

@wittmann:

Good argument KurtGodel. Until Worsham introduced his name, I had not heard of him.
I confess I fell for Nazi propaganda as a young boy and Wittmann has been my tank hero ever since.
That said, I love reading and learning about German tanks, so  reading about Knispel has been interesting.

Wittmann deserves his share of the votes too! An absolutely outstanding tank commander. It’s unfortunate that so many brave men like Wittmann and Knispel were killed in action.

To return to the subject of Knispel: he saw a member of the Einsatzgruppen mistreat Soviet POWs. Knispel responded by physically attacking the guy doing the abusing. This same kind of moral courage was also demonstrated by Erich Hartmann. At the end of the war, Hartmann surrendered to the Americans. Like millions of other captured German servicemen; Hartmann was transferred to Soviet custody. His Soviet captors abused him in various ways, including torture, solitary confinement, and threats to hunt down and murder his family. Despite all this, Hartmann refused to fold to “the Soviet will.” In the '50s he and many other captured German servicemen were handed over to West Germany as part of a trade agreement. Upon his return, he helped improve the West German Air Force. He was eventually asked to step down from his position because he’d stood up to corrupt dealings between members of the West German military and an American aircraft manufacturer. West Germany was buying unsafe planes, and German pilots were dying as a result.

[aequitas-et-veritas]

Oh ja, I remember, Erich Hartmann vs. the widowmaker.

[Witt]

Thanks Kurt. Good read. Again.

[General_D.Fox]

@CWO:

@ABWorsham:

Did I forget a category or person?

I don’t know how his numbers stack up against the others, but Adolf Galland shot down over a hundred Allied aircraft.

Galland ranked right up there, if not surpassed, most of the airmen in the Luftwaffe.

[ABWorsham4]

@The:

@CWO:

@ABWorsham:

Did I forget a category or person?

I don’t know how his numbers stack up against the others, but Adolf Galland shot down over a hundred Allied aircraft.

Galland ranked right up there, if not surpassed, most of the airmen in the Luftwaffe.

He could also light a cigar and smoke while wearing his oxygen mask. Great fighter pilot! Had he not been promoted to General he may have added another hundred kills to his score.