This is fascinating stuff. It’s like a sampler pack of IL’s deficiencies:
Lying, poor/no evidence, childishly calling names or thinking he is clever twisting someone else’s words, ignoring pertinent questions/info that would expose his faulty reasoning, correcting spelling so he can feel superior for SOMETHING, assuming that there are no relevant connections between operations of goverments (because some are the good guys and some are the bad guys � rolleyes), and just acting like an arrogant jerk in general.
spelling: governments
Calling names-changing words because you lost an argument….that would be you and a perfect fit.
And you still look like some insecure 13 year old Girl following me around wherever i go. I should call you Shadow
If YOU make an assumption based upon a data set that is admittedly limited, and only references one particular topic, and YOU extrapolate that to mean that only old white British and American authors can have the final word on any topic at all
But for you the final word on truth is only that espoused by those old or dead Historians who have never gained access to recent Soviet files. Then you create a false dichotomy and make my viewpoint look like I said Stalin was going to attack within weeks of Barbarossa. You limit your own position by shooting down anybody with credibility that does not fit that list. The 5-6 links i posted have viewpoints from European and American sources. You can ignore information or just focus on making Wikipedia jokes.
Any response to the fact that you were wrong about understanding my position? � How you claimed I held one position (that it was never possible!) when in fact I’ve always held that it was plausible, just not predetermined? � Or are you just incapable of admitting when you’re wrong?
I don’t have to understand your position, i just shoot down poor arguments you make against mine. That is what has been going on from the start. I didn’t argue with a position you made, rather you just showed up and took exception to a comment i made. You really need to wake up on Earth someday. I only said that Stalin was prepared and willing to attack Hitler first, provided that the conditions would be different.
Stalin was planning for war and directed Zhukov to prepare studies on how to attack Germany. The foreign policy was banking on Germany getting into another war of attrition ala WW1 western front and hoping to exhaust Germany while Stalin rebuilds his armed forces. He would give Hitler anything he wanted so as to avoid any provocation. The problem with that plan is to the dismay of the Soviets, the German army wiped up the French and had the British on her heels in a few short months. This is why Stalin was even more careful not to provoke Hitler.
However, Stalin did have designs against Germany and the Balkans ( among others things to get a warm water port). Yet Stalin was also pragmatic- If the Molotov/Ribbentrop meetings went well, they might have signed on with Germany to carve out the middle east but Germany and the Soviets would need to agree on spheres of influence over Scandinavia. This Hitler could not accept, nor any claims for more parts of Romania.
This is my original position and nothing here is out of place. It is all pretty basic knowledge “common knowledge” If you were a student of common knowledge, you’d understand that. :-D
I just got this from Dr. David Brandenberger -Associate Professor of History and International Studies ( Harvard) I made a mistake this is from David Glantz
Dear Mark:
I am familiar with the pre-emptive war theory postulated by Suvorov (Rezin) about 10 years ago in his book, Icebreaker. In fact, I have seen a copy of the original Zhukov proposal of 15 May 1941, together with Timoshenko’s signature and the lack of any comments by Stalin. I believe this proposal was one of many made by the General Staff in 1941. After all, this is the General Staff’s job (just as we had a plan to contend with war against Canada in the late 1930s). I wrote Stumbling Colossus in an attempt to refute Suvorov’s claim. Although implementation of Zhukov’s plan in July 1941 was clearly impossible, the Soviets did include include aspects of the plan in their Defense Plan-1941 (DP-41), specifically, in regard to the counterstrokes anticipated by the defense plan. In fact, on 24 June, two days after Operation Barbarossa began, Stalin sent Zhukov down to the Southwestern Front to supervise those counterstrokes – all of which failed miserably because of the Red Army’s poor state of readiness.
So in a nutshell, I reject Suvorov’s thesis.
I hope this answers your question.
All the best,
David
“soviets did include include”
hmm…
“soviets did include include”
Yes that was a typo in a private email, which means according to ding-a-ling that David Glantz is a fraud and didn’t receive any education. By that standard he was never in the Army either.
Here is the response from Dr. David Brandenberger -Associate Professor of History and International Studies ( Harvard):
Dear Mark,
I don’t think there is any question that Stalin planned for war with Germany sometime between 1942-1943, but firm plans were not yet in place in June 1941. If you want to know the precise positions of your generalist historians and memoirists on the issue, their books are available in good libraries. There are better, more modern analyses available today by Reese, Glantz, Gorodetsky, Overy, Zetterling, Pleshakov, etc. Suvorov, incidentally, argued in his Icebreaker that Stalin was going to attack in July 1941, so his thesis is different.
Cheers,
DavidDepartment of History
University of Richmond
28 Westhampton Way
Richmond VA 23173 USA
Since he didn’t make any mistakes we can safely assume he did go to Harvard and his opinion is correct.
I win, you lose… you’re case is dismissed, good bye- Judge Judy
Ok, where are you from then? I’ve said you’re British, and you keep saying “I’m not English”. Are you Welsh? Scottish? Irish? Where are you from?
Who cares? Not important?
- that’s incorrect, and you know it. 2) still doesn’t address your logic failure, which I’ve pointed out multiple times.
It is a plausible theory. Unlike you some people read more modern interpretations of the facts and with History that is a good thing. As for Logic, assuming a mistake in a PM means "im not from Stanford is a wonderful logical conclusion….of an idiot. Not to mention being homophobic by calling things you don’t like “Gay” is the same as a stupid 12 year old might post.
You really need to check into reality. :roll:
Laughing… so, why should I believe he wrote that and you didn’t write it? I mean, it’s pretty clear you’ve lied about academics to begin with.
Second, you say he’s at Harvard… but yet his signature block says University of Richmond.
Third, he referred to a number of author authors, including your boy Glantz… who pretty categorically dismisses Suvorov’s theory… which is what you’ve based yours on.
If that’s how you define a “win”… laughing, ok… just more evidence that you’re too stupid to have gone to Stanford.
Moron, he was educated at Harvard. If you think i made up those emails, you really have issues. Feel sorry for you. No not really. :roll:
My theory is not based on Suvorov. That is more of embellishment on your part. Suvorov believes the attack to be in early July 1941, I maintain conditions would need to be met and you basically haven’t read anything i posted or you are deliberately dense. Glantz makes email errors, so i guess he wasn’t educated at whatever school he says he graduated from. He isn’t in the military either again because he made that damm typo.
Can you take that gibberish elsewhere? Perhaps chastise Glantz for being uneducated or something productive?
BTW, no response to this one I see?
Respond to being a homophobic person? Go ahead. We need to understand that saying something is “Gay” isn’t the behavior of a 12 year old kid. :roll:
I don’t think there is any question that Stalin planned for war with Germany sometime between 1942-1943
This is what i maintain as well. Very plausible based on any rudimentary study of Stalin and his motives. You argue against that and stop making up “gee you said he was going to attack July 6th 1941”
Third, he referred to a number of author authors, including your boy Glantz… who pretty categorically dismisses Suvorov’s theory… which is what you’ve based yours on.
Mine is not based on Suvorov. I told you this before. Are you always this stupid?
Wait: I have a new theroy…
Stupid + Stupid= YOU
@Imperious:
BTW, no response to this one I see?
Respond to being a homophobic person? Go ahead. We need to understand that saying something is “Gay” isn’t the behavior of a 12 year old kid. :roll:
This is patently obvious utilizing something not germane to the issue at hand to avoid having to answer questions whose truthful answers would embarrass you immensely.
“you are a ________ so you point that__________ is not valid.”
We could run a course on logical fallacies and IL could be the example for almost every one. In fact, maybe that is his background at Stanford, he was a lab rat there for a philosophy course?
It is important. It’s about your credibility. You have yet to say definitively that you’re not British when asked explicitly (“I’m not English”) and yet you have not say that you’re Californian, or even American. I’ve offered that you use a number of non-American colloquialisms that when combined with some of your other stories that don’t seem to hold together, like where you went to college, paint a picture of someone pretending to be someone who they are not.
I doesn’t matter to me and i already told you. Of course you don’t believe it because you don’t want to. I really could care less and I’m glad it bugs you.
What’s the big deal of saying where you’re from? I’ve said where I’m from (born in greater San Francisco Bay Area, moved away when I was in elementary school) before and given references to where I went to school (mid West for college, East Coast for grad school and doctoral work). What’s the big deal?
The big deal is $4.99 for lunch. Choose either British Fish and Chips or Haggis .
You wrote: � Associate Professor of History and International Studies ( Harvard). � As in, that’s where he’s an Associate Professor. � Why in the world would you write their academic position, followed by the name of an academic institution, and then assume that the name of the academic institution refers to where they got their Ph.D., as opposed to where they are now? � Who does that? �
I do it to mess with you because i want you to discredit him as well like you usually do and look stupid. Go look up his credentials. IN fact ask him if the email is a fake. Don’t ask me to do your homework.
I think there’s a reasonable chance you made up the emails, because there’s strong reason to believe you’re a liar.
I believe you are homophobic, which is something you clearly avoid while asking me " Why didn’t you respond to that?" Hilarious situation.
You wrote: � My theory is not based on Suvorov. � Except that’s the person you referenced primarily, both in your initial evidence from Wikipedia (which is still funny) and then again when you quoted the theory from Suvorov’s Wikipedia page. � You keep saying “my theory is not based on Suvorov”–except that’s who you’ve referenced the most.
I posted where you might look to gain knowledge of the situation. You want to make Wikipedia jokes fine. You want to go back and do the Stanford thing, fine. All you doing is lose total credibility on the issue because you don’t want to see the plausibility of an attack in 1942. I do not maintain an attack for July 6th 1941 or whatever he says. I do know that if the war did not come to USSR in 1941, Stalin would most likely attack by 1942. That is what our educated chap Dr. David Brandenberger says.
And he didn’t make any typos, so you can believe him. :roll:
Sorry, you’re the PC police too now? � I’ll use whatever insults I feel like using. � Sorry your delicate sensibilities are offended.
LOL
No, do you have any response to the question, have you ever thought “hey, maybe I’m the asshole?” since so many people on these boards seem to hate you? � I mean, I’ve seen a bunch of places where you post–ignore most of them, just not this thread–and it seems like people really think you’re a dick.
I think you already figured out what you are. Homophobic who calls things he hates “gay” arguing like some 12 year old kid will only get you so far.
Correct. It’s why he hasn’t answered your original question: Does IL ever think maybe he’s the asshole, given that so many people think he’s a dick?
yep Homophobic…uses certain words of genitalia…check…Have you been in prison?
@rjpeters70:
And ABWorsham–my apologies to you for my part in derailing a very interesting thread.
Tried a couple times to steer it back, but… failed.
Accusing people of being British? It doesn’t seem like you were trying very hard.
Laughing… believe what? � You have yet to say “I’m from here” or “I’m not from here…” � It’s like you don’t want to commit to being from one place or not being from another place in particular.
Look, I’ll lay my cards out on the table. � I don’t think you went to Stanford. � I don’t think you live in Malibu and own some apartment buildings like you claim. � You’re not Californian or even American. � Your too dumb to have gone to a good school (if you did go to a decent school, you’d know the correct term to use for me would be “homophobe” not “homophobic.” I’m neither, btw, just trying to help you out on proper English) � If you did graduate from college in 90, that would make you mid-late 40s, but you say that you play badminton most evenings… which I tend to believe (because why in the world would anyone make THAT up), but it shows that you likely are single and don’t have a family–which is kinda sad. � I spend most evenings playing with my kids and then having some quiet time with my wife. � Watching a movie or reading together, usually, once the munchkins are in bed. � So I know how nice those moments are, and it does make sad to think that a middle aged man isn’t able to enjoy that. �
But, at the end of the day, I think you maybe had some college, or went to an average school, but are single, likely British. � For sure not American. � Probably don’t live in California, otherwise, you’d know that Malibu is a pretty small and super-exclusive place populated by really, really successful movie stars, Russian oligarchs, or California tech billionaires. � More plausibly if you were a successful upper middle class business person, you’d live in Laguna Beach, Newport Beach, Pasadena, Santa Ana, Orange, Marina Del Ray, Santa Barbara, etc… but Malibu, Mulholland Drive, Bev. Hills, etc. would be out of your price range. � And if you were a tech billionaire who really did live in Malibu… I’d expect more out of your postings… if you even were on here to begin with.
OMG you got everything wrong! I’m glad you have no clue, just makes for more comedy for the rest of us.
I just think you’re a normal, middle-class, working class stiff (like me) who likes World War II and gaming… nothing wrong with that. � But you make up this story about who you are and what you do and where you live and it’s just… sad. � And the bullying is really, really unbecoming. � And I fully admit that I’ve been bullying you on here, but it really is in reaction to way over the top reactions on your part (think back to the first time we crossed paths. � I think my first posting response to you was “dude, chill out” and you kept going, berating me for having a different opinion than you, without awknowledging that differing opinions can be perfectly valid and defendable, even if you disagree with them). �
Spelling/Grammatical errors: acknowledging, defendable ( hey jack head the proper word is defensible) What School did you go to again?
What is also unbecoming is the absolute travesty of logical connection:
1. I make a typo in a PM
2. That means i didn’t go to Stanford
3. proof i have no credibility
So… I’m tired of this. � I’ve got work piling up, and honestly, I don’t think this is doing any good. � I think you’re a sad asshole. � And I freely admit I’ve got a foul mouth, but I work with the military and it kinda rubs off. � My fault, but that’s honestly a lot of how people I work with talk. � If it offends people, sorry, but I’ve done a lot of self-censoring already. �
That is why you have problems calling people names like some 12 year old twat with emphasis on: Genitalia, and this calling things you dislike “Gay”, which incidentally is a really ignorant choice of words. And not once have you even defended yourself. Hilarious!
You are not sorry for anything, and bringing back the conversation wasn’t constantly bringing up “Stanford this and that”, which in itself is one of the weakest arguments i ever heard.
At least i emailed two prominent Historians and posted their thoughts, which in one case was not concurrent with my opinion. I posted it anyway to bring light on this topic and all you have is: Dick, Asshole, Gay…… I’m not this or that. You brought nothing to the table except increased hostility and nothing but memory’s of dead Historians.
What a joke you ended up being. I hope you rest at night with whatever comfort you gain from making up information about me and rest assured everything i said is truth.
And get it right: I’m not English, Scottish, etc. I just happen to use language is a more stylistic manner that you’re capable of. And that’s why you fail, because you place too much emphasis on limited words and think you are a tarot card reader by private message correspondence. Lastly, you hate the fact that i came out of Stanford out of some jealousy angle. Otherwise, you would not volunteer so much information without being asked.
@rjpeters70:
Laughing… believe what? � You have yet to say “I’m from here” or “I’m not from here…” � It’s like you don’t want to commit to being from one place or not being from another place in particular.
Look, I’ll lay my cards out on the table. � I don’t think you went to Stanford. � I don’t think you live in Malibu and own some apartment buildings like you claim. � You’re not Californian or even American. � Your too dumb to have gone to a good school (if you did go to a decent school, you’d know the correct term to use for me would be “homophobe” not “homophobic.” I’m neither, btw, just trying to help you out on proper English) � If you did graduate from college in 90, that would make you mid-late 40s, but you say that you play badminton most evenings… which I tend to believe (because why in the world would anyone make THAT up), but it shows that you likely are single and don’t have a family–which is kinda sad. � I spend most evenings playing with my kids and then having some quiet time with my wife. � Watching a movie or reading together, usually, once the munchkins are in bed. � So I know how nice those moments are, and it does make sad to think that a middle aged man isn’t able to enjoy that. �
But, at the end of the day, I think you maybe had some college, or went to an average school, but are single, likely British. � For sure not American. � Probably don’t live in California, otherwise, you’d know that Malibu is a pretty small and super-exclusive place populated by really, really successful movie stars, Russian oligarchs, or California tech billionaires. � More plausibly if you were a successful upper middle class business person, you’d live in Laguna Beach, Newport Beach, Pasadena, Santa Ana, Orange, Marina Del Ray, Santa Barbara, etc… but Malibu, Mulholland Drive, Bev. Hills, etc. would be out of your price range. � And if you were a tech billionaire who really did live in Malibu… I’d expect more out of your postings… if you even were on here to begin with.
I just think you’re a normal, middle-class, working class stiff (like me) who likes World War II and gaming… nothing wrong with that. � But you make up this story about who you are and what you do and where you live and it’s just… sad. � And the bullying is really, really unbecoming. � And I fully admit that I’ve been bullying you on here, but it really is in reaction to way over the top reactions on your part (think back to the first time we crossed paths. � I think my first posting response to you was “dude, chill out” and you kept going, berating me for having a different opinion than you, without awknowledging that differing opinions can be perfectly valid and defendable, even if you disagree with them). �
So… I’m tired of this. � I’ve got work piling up, and honestly, I don’t think this is doing any good. � I think you’re a sad asshole. � And I freely admit I’ve got a foul mouth, but I work with the military and it kinda rubs off. � My fault, but that’s honestly a lot of how people I work with talk. � If it offends people, sorry, but I’ve done a lot of self-censoring already. �
This is the greatest post I have ever read on this forum, thank you Rjpeters, thank you for doing this :-)
