13L G40 Boldfresh (Allies +12) vs. Me1945

[boldfresh]

Jenn, this is quite similar to what Jeff28 tried to pull by going back several turns
after he saw what i was going to do (remember the game you ruled on some time
back?).  Me ok’d a full redo of the move (at least certainly indicated he was fine
with major alterations) and now he has reversed his position and is trying to cling to some
shaky rules technicality because he is now afraid he will lose.

[boldfresh]

and finally, to OMEGA.  what the heck man?  it would certainly seem that Me thinks he’s in a lot more trouble here THAN YOU THINK HE IS…  :lol:

[boldfresh]

@Cmdr:

However, I recognize that scramble decisions may change based on what is, and is not present.  Bold recognized this in his statement (second to last one listed above) to the fact that if he altered what he was bringing to SZ 112 that he would ask for a new scramble order, and since there was no change, he feels that there was no need to ask for another scramble order and that the last one should stand.

For now, I am going to rule that the turn stands as presented at the end of the Allied turn.  If there is new evidence that you’d like to present to me, that may change my ruling, please do so.

jenn, what entered z112 DID change - i REDUCED what went to the zone, as I had stated I would, saying that if he wanted to scramble, go ahead.  again, he originally DID NOT SCRAMBLE.  i have asked Me to explain logically why if he did not scramble originally he thinks it is fair and sporting to try to force the turn to occur as originally posted, especially after he indicated redoing the move was fine.

[boldfresh]

ok Me - the gloves are coming off.  you made me pull out the rulebook so let’s just read what the rulebook says.

“The attacker may not change any combat movements or attacks AFTER THE DEFENDER HAS SCRAMBLED”.

now, may I ask one simple question…  DID YOU SCRAMBLE, Me1945?  :roll:

[boldfresh]

To me, the issue is CUT and DRIED.  I did not even need to ask Me if I could redo the move.  Per the rules I could because he did not scramble.

Me, save a little shred of dignity and just go ahead with your italy move.

Jenn, thank you for looking at the game, but next time could you please consult the rulebook?  When there is a dispute, I should think the first thing the moderator should do is research applicable rules.

Cheers

[boldfresh]

You know what I love the most about this?  That all the players that weighed in thought the edits should be allowed (for whatever reason) and that the RULEBOOK actually has it in black and white - in my opinion the fact that there was no scramble was the biggest reason BY LOGIC that the entire move should be allowed to be redone.  Gotta love it when the rules  are clear and logical - nice work Larry Harris (and/or Krieghund)!

[boldfresh]

Me, I would appreciate your clear acceptance of the rules and would like an apology for the fact that you have delayed the game unnecessarily by grasping at what you THOUGHT was a rules technicality in your favor.

Now MAN UP and continue the game… and don’t try any more of this punk ass sheit.

[boldfresh]

@Boldfresh:

Me, I would appreciate your clear acceptance of the rules and would like an apology for the fact that you have delayed the game unnecessarily by grasping at what you THOUGHT was a rules technicality in your favor.

Now MAN UP and continue the game… and don’t try any more of this punk ass sheit.

if you cannot apologize, then this game officially goes from a friendly game to an UNFRIENDLY game, and we will have to VERY CLEARLY lay out expectations just as Stalingradski very reasonably suggested.  In my opinion, you already attempted to make the game unfriendly or were already treating it as such based on what you just tried to pull, but I will reserve judgement and give you the benefit of the doubt in just not understand the rules FOR NOW, if you apologize.

Cheers

[boldfresh]

@Me1945:

The only solution I can offer you is: you go with the original US CM file you posted before scramble, which is the way IT MUST BE, and proceed with CH6 and UK6 whatever a way you want meaning you can re-roll it, and AFTER finalizing the game I’ll give you a chance to beat me with the last UK6 currently attached file plus UK Tac from Tam you wanted to land on sz96. But, it will be treated as separate league game. Let me know, if anything is unclear here.

i have wiped my ass with higher quality material than this post.  shame on you.

[boldfresh]

@Boldfresh:

ok Me - the gloves are coming off.  you made me pull out the rulebook so let’s just read what the rulebook says.

“The attacker may not change any combat movements or attacks AFTER THE DEFENDER HAS SCRAMBLED”.

now, may I ask one simple question…  DID YOU SCRAMBLE, Me1945?   :roll:

now, i’m going to throw you a bone here Me.  ok?

when i said what i said to cow in our XDAP game, i was under the impression that giving a scramble decision was binding and that the combat moves could not be changed at that point.  because i read the rules quickly and made an incorrect assumption.  perhaps you did as well.

THAT BEING SAID, the letter of the rule is that if a scramble is made, even if it is one fighter against 30 planes attacking, the combat move is locked in.  even then, i would ONLY expect a defender to scramble a single plane in order to activate said rule and then enforce said rule to the utmost IF it was an unfriendly game of the most extreme nature.  so apparently that is what our game is, and we must lay out the exact expectations before we proceed.  I do not expect an apology from you, and if you were to apologize, i might even resign due to shock.

[boldfresh]

to those reading the thread, I apologize if it seems i am being too harsh towards Me.  But it is VERY hard for me to accept a player showing such unsportsmanlike behavior and especially in such an indefensible situation.  some may say i was unsportsmanlike towards Cow in our XDAP game, but i let everyone know up front that there was going to be a lot of “trash talk” coming from my end and that i was just going to show cow what playing cow is like.

what Me is doing is not trash talk - in my opinion it is 100 times more egregious.  let’s see if he apologizes and admits he was wrong - that would go a long way toward earning my respect.

[seth4god]

Bold,

Jenn ruled in your favor. No reason for name calling or for prattling on. You’re going to lose any good will and you could come out of this looking bad. Just shut up, enjoy that Jenn and most of the community agreed with you, and wait until Me posts something/continues the game.

[boldfresh]

No, jenn did not rule in my favor.

[boldfresh]

oh you know what, maybe she did.  :?

[boldfresh]

@seththenewb:

Bold,

Jenn ruled in your favor. No reason for name calling or for prattling on. You’re going to lose any good will and you could come out of this looking bad. Just shut up, enjoy that Jenn and most of the community agreed with you, and wait until Me posts something/continues the game.

i am not name calling - where did i call Me a name?  :-)

[boldfresh]

but you know what, i do have a right to express frustration with what he tried to pull here.  i have now done so and we will see what he says.  presuming Jenn did actually rule correctly according to the rules.

[boldfresh]

just so no one could possibly think otherwise - i was in no way trying to “game the system” with Me.  I honestly and completely thought the rules actually were saying that only an active scramble was legitimate to lock in the combat movements if the defender so decided to enforce.  this is why even after Jenn ruled in my favor (can we say, in the favor of good sportsmanship?), i went to Krieghund to ask for a rules clarification so that this will not happen to any poor unsuspecting souls again.

this sudden aggression should not stand - and I still hope that Me, even though it seems he may have the right “per the letter of the rules” to deny any changes that he will not do so in light of what so many others see as reasonable in this case.  come on Me, can we just let bygones be bygones?  i was totally playing this game under the impression that it was friendly - if it was unfriendly for you, i wish you would have told me that from the beginning and i could have been on guard for things like this.

since Jenn left it open that anything new can be brought to her attention, i have little doubt that if Me wanted to stand his ground he would take the rules to Jenn.  At that point it becomes a judgement call from Jenn whether Me originally had intent to allow the redo of a move with no dice and an obvious scramble decision or not.

:|

Me, can you just let this thing go?  Please.

[boldfresh]

well, i just took the time to go back and review the entire thread.  i see no evidence at all that this game was proceeding under “unfriendly” auspices.  :|

[Me1945]

Thanks Jenn. The ruling is accepted. I did’t change my mind about the legal side of the issue, but it is what it is. The game will be certainly continued.

[boldfresh]

Thank you Me.

If you do wish to continue the game as “unfriendly” then i think we should lay the ground rules.  whatever you say, i will accept.