Alternative to 97

[ghr2]

The 97 raid is a very popular strategy for a UK player in global 1940.  It is probably the most widely used in all UK openers for the game.  It wipes out much of the Italian navy, and usually prevents them from getting big.  But, the main weakness is that this usually leaves egypt weakened and hurts your ability to defend sealion since you have a lot of air committed down to the med.

My question is, in what situations/conditions would you think that a 97 strike would not be a wise move, and what would you do differently?

[Sire Fred]

I already did a successful SZ 97 attack by using only the ships and the TAC from SZ 98, the Malta fighter and the strategic bomber from London. Since all my planed landed in Malta after the fight, I used the CV to take hits and save my RAF for another day (Egypt or kill more Italian ships).

I like to use the fighter in Gibraltar in combo with the SZ 91 Cruiser to sink the italian DD/TT in SZ 96 but I could spare that fighter to defend London.

I rarely send the two fighters in London to the Med. I keep them for home defense.

I always do the Tarento attack in every game I play with GB. Maybe a retreat of the Royal Navy across the Suez to India for a KJF strategy could be an alternative but Egypt would have a rough time.

[Spendo02]

J1 DOW that gets diced and US1 has a heavy Atlantic Purchase?

[variance]

I don’t like Taranto.  I would only do it if Germany has absolutely of chance of sealion (no navy build G1; J1 DOW) and in that case the real prize is to reduce the luftwaffe by sticking the carrier in z97 begging to be airstriked.

[theROCmonster]

Assuming you are playing with a bid and part of your bid was to place a sub in your UK Med fleet, I wouldn’t do Tarranto if Germany buys all navy, or if I can merge my navy off gibralter without being killed.

[knp7765]

As UK, I’m not crazy about the Taranto strike either. Hitting SZ 96 is almost a given to kill that Italian DD and Transport, but SZ 97 can really decimate the British naval presence in the Med, and I think it actually makes Italy stronger. Sure they lose about half their fleet, including their only BB and 2 transports, but it usually takes all the UK Med fleet to do it which almost gives Italy a free hand in the Med with what navy they have left.
Usually, I like to put blockers in SZ 96 (cruiser) and SZ 99 (destroyer), leave the carrier in SZ 98. Sometimes I will launch an attack and wipe out the Tobruk force. Other times I leave it alone, wipe out the guys in Ethiopia and Italian Somaliland, and try to fortify Egypt.
With the blockers, that means it will be at least 2 rounds before Italy can attack Egypt and with any luck, you can have a pretty decent force built up there. If you destroy the Tobruk force, it does weaken the Egypt defense some, but all the Italian force will have to come amphibiously which could be a problem for Italy.
If you don’t hit the Tobruk force and wipe out the guys in Ethiopia and Italian Somaliland instead, you will have more to defend Egypt with and it’s nice not to worry about the Italians in central Africa.

[Young Grasshopper]

Every game I’ve played where Italy gets left a Battleship, they take and hold the Middle East easily.

[variance]

@ShadowHAwk:

Been thinking and what if you would hit all the italian navy on the first turn.
Using all the air from the UK and all of the med fleet and the fighter from gibraltar and the cruisers there.
You could attack SZ 97 with 1 cruiser 1 destroyer 2 fighters 1 carrier
The other Italian fleet with 2 fighters and 1 tactical
The bomber can go both ways and you can use the cruiser to attack the destroyer.

If he doesnt scramble in 97 he has a good chance of losing that fight.
But if he does you can actualy pull out and kill his other fleet as 2 fighers+ 1 tactical vs 1 cruiser + 1 destroyer is pretty good odds.
Using the bomber in 97 even with a scramble you have decent chance to kill all his fleet.

If there is minimal sealion threat, if there are only 2 or 3 fighters in Rome, and if the cruiser by Gibraltar survives, I could imagine ignoring the transport/destroyer in 96 and going for the double Taranto, then let the French fleet mop up.

[knp7765]

Interesting plan. Never thought of hitting all the Italian fleet. If the dice go right, Italy could be left with nothing.

One problem: The Gibraltar fighter can not hit SZ 95 and land in Malta. That is 5 moves = SZ 92, SZ 94, SZ 95, SZ 96, Malta. (Remember, no airbase on Gibraltar). However, you could use it to hit that destroyer in SZ 96 and use the cruiser in SZ 91 to go to SZ 95.

The cruiser in SZ 91 almost always dies in our game on G 1. Still, Fighter/Tac vs. CA/DD is still decent odds of winning.

Another idea in conjunction with this plan is putting a Minor IC on Egypt to pump out more warships. A couple of subs each round could knock out any Italian ships that survived the initial UK attack and French attack and keep Italy from building any more navy plus convoy raiding them to boot.

[ghr2]

@ShadowHAwk:

Been thinking and what if you would hit all the italian navy on the first turn.
Using all the air from the UK and all of the med fleet and the fighter from gibraltar and the cruisers there.
You could attack SZ 97 with 1 cruiser 1 destroyer 2 fighters 1 carrier
The other Italian fleet with 2 fighters and 1 tactical
The bomber can go both ways and you can use the cruiser to attack the destroyer.

If he doesnt scramble in 97 he has a good chance of losing that fight.
But if he does you can actualy pull out and kill his other fleet as 2 fighers+ 1 tactical vs 1 cruiser + 1 destroyer is pretty good odds.
Using the bomber in 97 even with a scramble you have decent chance to kill all his fleet.

Might not be worth it since it leaves london very empty.

[knp7765]

Well, yeah. It goes without saying that all of this rests on Germany’s round 1 buy. If it looks like a possible Sealion, then you have to let the Italian Navy go. If Germany buys all land units or land and air, it’s a safe bet they are going after Russia so England can be a little more liberal with their air power. Even if Germany buys a carrier G1, it doesn’t necessarily mean Sealion because they can use it for other stuff, although that would be a dangerous gamble for England.

Another thing, again depending on German buys, you can replace those planes in London that were sent after the Italian fleet so London wouldn’t be quite so empty.

[Guest]

The 97 raid is a very popular strategy for a UK player in global 1940.  It is probably the most widely used in all UK openers for the game.  It wipes out much of the Italian navy, and usually prevents them from getting big.  But, the main weakness is that this usually leaves egypt weakened and hurts your ability to defend sealion since you have a lot of air committed down to the med.

My question is, in what situations/conditions would you think that a 97 strike would not be a wise move, and what would you do differently?

1. Bid sub in z91 and z98. Hit z95 with 2fgt (one from London), 1tac, 1bmb, 2subs and 1cruiser. Hit z96 with dd and cruiser. Park carrier in z81 and land India fgt and tac there.

2. Hit Iraq with 1inf,1art,1mec,1tac from z98 and 1fgt,1tac from India. Build airbase in transjordan and park fleet in z98. Hit z96 with air.

3. If possible stack fleet in z92 if its unsinkable.

4. Evacuate fleet trugh suez and attack etiopia r1 with a bid, sink z96. Send planes home to London.

[knp7765]

Okay, your ideas may be good, but they are relying on BID units. In other words, EXTRA units that are not in the original setup.
We should be figuring out moves that would work with the setup AS IS, not with throwing extra British units on the board.
This is another reason I don’t like this whole bid nonsense. If you put extra ships and/or planes on the board, of course Britain is going to wipe out the Italian fleet. Try working with the setup as it stands. That’s the real strategy.

[Guest]

bid nonsense

Ok, you might hit z96 and ethiopia and land India planes on the carrier w/o a bid.

Still Germany would have no reason to buy anything to treathen sealion as they can simply save their cash and force Britain to play defencive, and skip z97.  Then just pump out 100$ worth of mobile units r2 for a swift barbarossa. Luftwaffe is mobile and can land in Alexandria r2 to support Italy and with their extra ships it will be realy hard for allies to defend Egypt and Iraq at the same time.

You might considder to hit Iraq early, just to make sure Italy does not activate it. But that will make defending Egypt even harder.

[ghr2]

If no bid, then its really easy for the axis :).