@Running-Away Per page 22 of the rulebook, units of another power may be transported only if that power is friendly. Per page 12, the US is not considered to be either friend or enemy to any other power while it remains neutral. Therefore, the US cannot transport units belonging to any other power while it is neutral.
What is your bid?
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I would rather remove or replace a couple of French ships: Battleship at Brest become a Cruiser and take away one of their 3 Transports.
Does anyone know why they have 3, same as UK?
I think balancing the Navies somewhat would give the CPs a fighting chance.I agree that the Ground units are best left as they are.
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While I would very much miss France’s second battleship, youra suggestion does make a lot of sense, Wittman. The CPs’ navy would definitely survive a lot longer without it.
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@wittmann:
I would rather remove or replace a couple of French ships: Battleship at Brest become a Cruiser and take away one of their 3 Transports.
Does anyone know why they have 3, same as UK?
I think balancing the Navies somewhat would give the CPs a fighting chance.I agree that the Ground units are best left as they are.
Yeah, I don’t quite get why the French fleet gets so many transports either. UK really needs transports but most of the French action is all on land. I guess if they wanted to ship a few troops down to their African colonies but they can’t afford to send too many or Germany will smash them.
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Use them to bring the Canadians over. But I agree France has too many.
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Flashman, that is exactly what my friend did after I sank the Canadian one.
Was a good move, but seemed a big cheeky. Almost as if that was their purpose!I do not know the 1914 figures for navies (transports), but makes sense that Great Britain has more then the other nations as it still owns much of the globe and has always ruled the seas. In the game most powers have one, which seems fine.
Germany has colonies and no transport.
Come to think of it, why has Austria got one? -
Yeah i think Germany needs a transport added to its starting navy,
Maybe UK originally had more transports but for balancing purposes they were converted to French?
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UK needs minimum 4 transports to feed Karelia and Picardy/Belgium. Assuming the Germans attack the main fleet, these need to be assembled off Wales B1 with a new Battleship, the French surface fleet from Brest having already sailed there.
France needs to activate Portugal, occupy Spanish Morocco, keep one inf in West Africa to block German expansion, and push everything else into the front against Germany. Use the med BB to damage the Austrian navy before follow up attacks by Britain and Italy.
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UK needs minimum 4 transports to feed Karelia and Picardy/Belgium. Assuming the Germans attack the main fleet, these need to be assembled off Wales B1 with a new Battleship, the French surface fleet from Brest having already sailed there.
France needs to activate Portugal, occupy Spanish Morocco, keep one inf in West Africa to block German expansion, and push everything else into the front against Germany. Use the med BB to damage the Austrian navy before follow up attacks by Britain and Italy.
Going a little off topic lol
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No Bid
More fun to play the Central Powers anyway.
Kim
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Some stats on naval power in 1914:
Total tonnage of naval strength:
British: 2.2 Million
Germany: 1.0 Million
France: 0.7 Million
Russia: 0.3 Million
Austria-Hungary: 0.2 MillionBritish military doctrine at the time was to be able to field a navy that was greater than any two other powers combined. (This is partly why the German naval build-up, although still far less than the British naval power, was so threatening.) A&A is a game, you have to balance it and make it interesting, but the lack of British naval power, especially relative to the other powers, is a little bit off.
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Thank you for those figures Aristokles. Had no idea Germany was second.
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So France could use a massive reduction (both for historical accuracy and game balance) in naval setup.
Russia could too, maybe remove one of its cruisers in sz 21 -
Also, Turkey had no modern warships in August 1914. It was only the arrival of the Goeben & Breslau in Constantinople that gave them a pair of modern cruisers, and incidentally triggered their entry into the war.
To be historically accurate, these units should begin as German cruisers in SZ18.
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Some stats on naval power in 1914:
Total tonnage of naval strength:
British: 2.2 Million
Germany: 1.0 Million
France: 0.7 Million
Russia: 0.3 Million
Austria-Hungary: 0.2 MillionBritish military doctrine at the time was to be able to field a navy that was greater than any two other powers combined. (This is partly why the German naval build-up, although still far less than the British naval power, was so threatening.) A&A is a game, you have to balance it and make it interesting, but the lack of British naval power, especially relative to the other powers, is a little bit off.
Simply counting tonnage does not suffice to reflect naval power of the nations.
1. It was the time of Dreadnoughts and Battlecruisers! These mostly defined naval power!
-> Figures in August 1914:
Dreadnoughts: UK: 22, Germany: 15, USA 10, France 8, Austria-Hungary 6, Italy 3, Russia NONE (again: NONE!!!)
Battlecruisers: UK 9, Germany 5 (all others none)2. Many ships were too old already thus being regarded as “unfit for high seas duty!”
-> This is especially true for Russia and Turkey, but also for France and UK (almost all their submarines were old “garbage” and could only be used as costal submarines!).Naval power UK:G in the North Sea was about 3:2.
Behind those 2 powers: Long time nothing! Then USA! -
Thank you xxstefanx.
Germany had double the number of Dreadnoughts than France? Again that is badly reflected in the game.
Russia too makes no sense then.
Flashman had already explained about the Turks.I would be happy adding one to the UK(Home Waters), adding a second to Germany, leaving US and Austria as they,'then removing Italy’s and Russia’s one and reducing one of France’s to a Cruiser. (Turks should lose a Cruiser too and maybe give Russia and the Italians a Cruiser to compensate.)
Will have to put those changes on the map, so I can see if it could help with balance. It will certainly change things in the Med.Needless to say, we are no closer to knowing about the Transport numbers, or why France has been given three!
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Thinking about it, we cannot take away Italy’s Dreadnought or Austria will attack their fleet. The stalemate is a good starting position as Italy should not even be at war!
Maybe it would be simpler to take a Transport from France and reduce one of its Dreadnoughts to a Cruiser.
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For those interested in the correct figures of the combatants here are the 2 essential reading recommendations:
Military strength, battle orders, etc.
http://www.amazon.com/The-World-War-Databook-Combatants/dp/1854107666/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1365933457&sr=8-1&keywords=World+War+I+databookEconomic strength:
http://www.amazon.com/Economics-World-War-I/dp/0521107253/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1365933639&sr=1-1&keywords=economics+of+World+War+I -
One must not forget the Battlecruisers!
Though nominated “Cruisers” they could hardly be seen as one! In fact, they were fast Battleships:
Slightly less armour, but superior speed. They could outrun all dreadnoughts so that they were used in separate scouting squadrons with massive firepower!
(see Doggerbank or Jutland for instance)In terms of a game they are supposed to be a new WWI specific unit type with the following stats:
A=4, D=4, M=3, Hits 1,5, Cost same as dreadnoughtOf course this would only be for a next BIG global WWI game with diplomacy, technology, cavalry, etc.!!
(I assume A&A 1914 is a success already!) -
I feel like Austria needs to start with a submarine. As it is now, once all of the powers merge in the med on the first turn all of the CP warships are pretty much trapped forever.
In one of our games where AH attempted to build a navy they had no hope because France can just drop ships directly out of Marseilles. Britain has nothing to fear bringing up their warships from India because the Ottomans can’t ever hope to get through the Suez canal (yet every ally can get through the Bosphorus straight… nice balance).
Britain can easily match any German navy and France can completely neutralize an AH navy with just a couple ships. The CP can never hope to match navies with the Allies and are doomed to sitting in their tiny sea zones staring out.
I firmly believe that the only reason the CP ships even exist is as a speedbump and minor deterrent so the Allies don’t just amphibiously assault in the first 2-3 turns.
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That mirrors what we’ve seen in our games zanetheinsane, the CP navies just delay the inevitable amphibs for a couple turns (does give you a chance to get art to def the coast though w/double shot).
Assuming these figures are accurate for tonnage, dread knots etc…, I would be on board with exploring a reduction to the French fleet. I was thinking in that direction w/o the historical data (just for game play). I would like to see one of the French battleships reduced to a cruiser, and remove one transport (which one(s) to be determined). Germany can knock out the UK home fleet, but the allies can easily have the French warships move up, and drop a new UK navy in the water w/o worrying to much about the Germans (especially if the Germans also tried to take out the Canadian fleet, (didn’t build any navy), and are now spread thin).
I wouldn’t want to add ships to the Austrian navy at set-up just yet though (I think they need to feel trapped), but I think the UK India cruiser could move to the southern tip of Africa w/o a doubt (sz25). This (along w/French reduction) could help the CP in the Med quite a bit IMO (the UK S African cruiser may go to the Atlantic in a call to arms). Even if the Austrians build some navy in the early rounds they are still generally stuck in port, or face overwhelming odds in sz17. The allies simply have much navy available in close range to the Med (at least make them think where to go with their over abundance of navy, and delay it a bit).
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