I think my 2nd German wave was 3 inf, 6 art pulled from the Russian front (to Berlin), plus my buy of 5 inf, 5 art for a total of 8 inf, 11 art in Berlin to march the long journey to Paris (I planned on, and did have air support). My starting ftr went to Galicia w/6 inf (3 more coming) to help the Austrians def against the Russians. My 2nd buy was a couple ftrs to catch up to my German army (as I wanted to control the sky’s), a transport, and more support for Austria which was able to fight several turns for Poland as a distraction to suck up units from the main Russian stack. I didn’t move my second buy towards France (maybe should have?), because it just seem like to long of a journey, and not many ground anyway as I bought a couple ftrs/transport (thought it best to aid the Austrians, much closer). Germany was making mid 40’s the first three turns (and climbing).
The original plan (aborted) was for the Austrians to take Venice by storm to put the Italians in a def posture (which happened, kinda), then to have that army continue on w/Germany to take some French territory, maybe help with the UK if they started coming over, or be a clean-up crew. I also cleared Switzerland G1 so the Austrians might be able to start bringing in a secondary force if all allied attention was turned to defending France.
I will admit we made several mistakes, and dice didn’t help in some of the early minor Austrian battles. The Austrians failed to take out Serbia A1 (had plenty, bad roll), then the French activated the Italians in Albania (this happens every game), and the Italians bought a couple transports IT1. On A2 Austria cleaned up Serbia, but also decided to take Greece ? ($ sucking ….lol), but that didn’t go well either, and Italy inherited two more units. A major fight broke out in the Balkans with many more units coming (Italians 3 transports, and enough allied navy to destroy the Austrian navy at any time). The Austrian army abandoned me (understandable he was defending everywhere), and I ended up giving him suport, but got none.
Being the UK spent its first two buys in India though, their home navy was killed off G1, and they didn’t rebuild it, this should have been a cake walk for Germany. Wrong, the French can put up one hell of a fight on their own with very little help through mass inf buys because you really can’t knock their income down, and its a long walk to Paris. I think we over reacted a bit to the landings in the Balkans (although you can’t just leave them down there to grow), and attacking Greece was entirely the wrong thing to do. My decision to attack the Russian fleet G3, and get completely out of position was stupid-stupid-stupid (but I blame my partner for not talking me out of it, or pointing out the consequences lol). In this game the allies took all fleet to over kill the Med (which wasn’t needed), leaving me control of the Atlantic, which I screwed up. In a normal game though the Allies would be putting up a fight in the Atlantic, but the German G3 but would probably be all navy to try to stop the UK from coming over in volume (at that point I think its probably pointless to by ground units for the French fight, better to try to stop the English).
I think this may have been our game to win, but errors are much harder for the CP to over come. We didn’t really finish the game (time), and it would have been a week before we could have continued. When I got to Paris for the big battle, we played it out. Each of us had over 30 units left contesting Paris. I had that 8 inf/11 art that could now engage, but the 10 UK units would have been in Paris, and the French buy which was at least 7-8 inf inf to place in a contested Paris (so he would now out number me, and I had nothing coming). I may have been able to force his UK navy away temperately (I did buy all navy G3), but the Med fleets were on their way to the Atlantic. We rolled out the Austria attack on the Russians, and that actually went very well. It was A/5 ftrs, R/4 ftrs and Austria won the dog fight, and out rolled him in the land battle, so the Russians would have back peddled. The fact that actually taking Paris was a long shot, the UK would be in position to eventually liberate it even if I got it because there is no way for me to defend it. Plus the fact that France pretty much defended on its own just makes me shake my head in disbelief.
Thanks for the write-up, but I have two questions:
1. Why didn’t Germany send land troops to France every turn so that you always have reinforcements?
2. If Italy is buying transports, how/why did Austria not beat them down? two transports plus sending troops to the Balkans- Austria would have an easier time fighting down to Rome. I agree- fighting for Greece usually isn’t a good idea and I usually just leave enough Austrian troops in the balkans to ensure I don’t lose territory. If I sent a large army to take Albania then it is massively out of position in the fight for Rome/Paris.
By the 2nd-3rd turn it is just a long way from your German capital to Paris, and w/buying air and a bit of navy it’s just not enough ground to make a difference IMO (so I sent the ground to aid the Russian front). I though it best to buy some air that can get there faster, and get me Air support if the UK started sending a couple ftrs over. I also was supposed to get the 13 unit Austrian army by my side that would have made a major difference in France. Also a 3rd turn German naval build in the right situation might be able to keep the UK off the continent, or delay them. I think that Austria was in a pickle w/Russia breathing down their back, and the landing in the Balkans (maybe a bit of a panic). I also think he could have game up some ground, and kept the Austrian army heading to Paris, because I was giving him def support on the Russian front, but he bailed. When he bailed from the Italian front it allowed the Italian freedom to transport units as they wanted (didn’t have to worry about Rome). As it turned out I met my original obligations by sending some German units to help def the Russia front (and they didn’t break through). We played out the Austrian attack on Russia as the last battle of the game, and the Austrians actually broke the back of the Russians, and wiped out their air force in the dog fight. The Idea was for him to play defense though, and give me support in France. It was a good learning experience for both sides though, and could very well be a good strat if carried out.
I definitely agree with Bill that to attack you don’t want two powers’ armies, especially when those two separate armies would need to attack one TT. The defender gets to shoot at your guys twice, essentially.
Yeah, I think it’s the best way to go taking the bulk of the German army one way, and the Austrian army the other. You just have more attack capabilities (punch). I think it is important to have a small 12+ unit ally army with you though because it can be very helpful, and gives you more options. Territory grabs that cause a distraction to the enemy, watching your flank, merging to back down your enemy etc…. Its also cool for that smal force to have some air to sacrifice a couple ground units just to force a dog fight to kill off enemy ftrs so your larger force can gain air superiority.
@WILD:
To my surprise the English didn’t spend a dime in London first few turns, and spent everything in India (yeah the Turks were in trouble). I thought ok, this just might work, its the Germans vs the French with no out side help… I don’t understand how the French can loose 1/2 their main territories, and still have over 20 IPCs because they make it up w/neutrals?..
…Anyway the French didn’t have much help, but were able to defend against the entire might of the German army…
The IPC imbalance in our games has been incredibly noticeable. Just starting off the game France will easily make +5 IPCs from Spanish Morroco, Portugal, and Belgium They will easily have Togoland and Kamerun soon enough, boosting them to well over 30 IPCs very early in the game. Britain will carve up Africa for a tidy bonus, will almost always hold Arabia due to the ability to spend any amount of IPCs they wish in India, which usually means Afghanistan, Persia, and Mesopotamia are theirs for the taking (and keeping).
UK usually ends up making around 40 IPCs that the Central Powers have zero chance of taking away.
Unless Germany and Austria start carving up Russia very quickly the Central Powers start the game off making significantly less IPCs than the Allies, and that doesn’t even include USA. If you count the USA the balance gets even more lopsided.
I realize that the CPs start with more units than the Allies but that is easily made up for the fact that the Allies would have to be lobotomized to not be able to rule every sea zone in the game by Turn 3-4 max. The UK can throw every single IPC they want on offense because all of their territories are unassailable.
Unlike 1940 where the Axis start with a huge head of steam and have to keep going to avoid running out of resources, the CPs in this game seem to start down and out and have to claw and drag themselves out of hole just to get on par with the Allies. It is very frustrating to play as them and just continually get stopped and beat up at every front.
I think you hit the nail on the head Zane.
Paris or bust may look viable at first glance, but the economics of the game pretty much dictate that it won’t work. When the CP head west and try to hold the line against Russia they will barely be able to achieve economic parity with the Allies, let alone superiority.
There’s just no enough to be gained by the CP’s on the western front. Even if you’ve advanced to the gates of Paris Germany will only have gained between 6 and 10 IPC and even that would barely dent France’s income. When you factor in the African IPC’s Germany will lose over the first few turns, the viability of this strategy becomes bleaker still.
There’s much more to be had in Russia. Some 13 IPC’s for all the CP’s combined. And another 12 if you play without the revolution. On top of that, you will have taken out Russia and have reduced the Allied economy by 25 IPC. That just won’t happen when you attack France.
Point taken Vondelaer-
What about a slight modification to the ‘Paris or Bust’ strat-
Concentrate on Russia and France… Ignore Italy? As in, send Austrian reinforcements across northern italy to southern france to aid the german thrust in belgium/northern france?
Sounds like a good idea BJ.
From the write ups in this topic it looks as though Germany can’t quite capture Paris, but perhaps an Austrian assist will give the CP’s enough oomph to do it.
The Austrian force would have to be pretty big to get cross Northern Italy and still be able to have an impact on the battle for Paris though. And that could spell disaster on the eastern front and in the Balkans.
Actually, as I was writing a had an idea. What if we turned the original idea of Paris or bust around? and let Germany go after Russia the way it usually does, while Austria goes all out in the west to eliminate Italy?
Even with minimal help from Austria and the Ottmans down south, Germany should still be able to force Russia into revolution. Meanwhile, Italy won’t hold out long against a determined Austria.
Obviously, the CP’s would still have to take Paris in order to win, but with now that Italy and Russia have been removed fromt he equasion they ought to be in a good position to do so.
Not sure BJCard.
Game I played and lost, I never held Tuscany and I think Italy remaining in the game cost me in the long run. I will go all out on Italy next time.
It was my German Western Front weakness that allowed France to reinforce through Piemonte and eventually contest Munich for the remainder of the game.
I do not want a repeat, but agree France may not miss 6 IPCs; they really can pick up 4-6 more in Africa as observed.
CPs have to be contesting Paris early on to have a chance of France first.
Damn Russia!
Hmm, I thought only the Italians could activate Albania (unless attacked by the CP), only Russia could activate Romania etc.
" …then the French activated the Italians in Albania (this happens every game)…",
If Italy continually retreats to Rome and the US lands troops in Rome on turn 5, even a concerted attack by Austria on Italy most likely cannot get Rome. In both the games I’ve played I did just that- send the bulk of my Army at Italy to no avail. It just takes too long to get to Rome. The best I’ve done is contest Rome- Italy can still build a couple Infantry and the US is landing 4+ units there per turn.
However if instead of going for Rome, you send your initial Venice/Tyrolia/Trieste/Vienna armies straight across northern Italy to get some pressure on Burgundy/Marseilles by turn 3, France will have to split up its forces a bit. This could help Germany enough to have a chance at Paris on turn 4 or 5.
Of course, after the initial armies are sent to France Austria would have to concentrate on making sure Italy doesn’t grow too big.
Germany essentially has to split up its starting forces to fight Russia and France- Austria sends most of its Galicia and Budapest armies against Russia (with small force fighting in Serbia). Ottoman sends Constantinople and Bulgaria armies to Russia.
It could work-
Hmm, I thought only the Italians could activate Albania (unless attacked by the CP), only Russia could activate Romania etc.
" …then the French activated the Italians in Albania (this happens every game)…",
Any ally can activate Albania- the units activated are Italian though; same for any other country that can be activated.
Hmm, I thought only the Italians could activate Albania (unless attacked by the CP), only Russia could activate Romania etc.
" …then the French activated the Italians in Albania (this happens every game)…",
Any ally can activate Albania- the units activated are Italian though; same for any other country that can be activated.
OK, thanks. This is again slightly different then from how friendly allies can be activated in Europe 40. If Italy moves into say Bulgaria there (which is also allowed) then the Bulgarians become Italian pieces and not German ones. It’d be more logical, IMHO only to allow the italians to activate Albania, Russians Romania etc.
BTW, I usually attack Albanai with some Austrian pices on round 1 for the extra IPCs (just two but you should be able to hold it for a number of trounds…) Does anyone else do this?
I have thought about attacking Albania with Austria, but I feel like sending maximum troops west is a better proposition. Perhaps playing an economic game is better for the CPs.
It could work-
–-------------Yes General!
I am wary of your Northern Pass(not Tuscany drive) as I did it thinking I would help the Germans North of me and maybe get a shot at Paris! (a forlorn hope).
I lost the Austrians in Piemonte, then Venice, then had to keep evicting the French from Tyrolia. Italy meantime never dipped below 16IPCs.
I will not be attacking Switzerland this time.
I do wish you luck, of course.
Koningstiger: I worry that Austria attacking Albania is the same as amphibiously landing in Tuscany: it cannot be held. Albania is in SZ 17(Italy’s sphere) and they can always drop two men and bombard(Austrian Artillery would lessen the impact of course). UK and France probably want their navies in that SZ too, therefore eliminating any Austrian incursion out of the Adriatic.
