Or when the oil blob kills Tasha Yarr! Everyone’s seen that episode!
Yeah… that was the most lame death of a primary character I have ever seen.
Favorite Star Trek Captain
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I didn’t like DS9. Maybe because I was such a huge B5 fan and that, in my opinion, they did a far superior job writting babylon 5 that ds9 seemed like a knockoff to me.
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@Cmdr:
I didn’t like DS9. Maybe because I was such a huge B5 fan and that, in my opinion, they did a far superior job writting babylon 5 that ds9 seemed like a knockoff to me.
It funny, the other day my girlfriend mentioned that when ever she watched the show while it was on the air, it just seemed like a bunch of aliens sitting around the bar. I thought for a minute and said, “oh my god, it was Space Cheers!” :lol:
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@Cmdr:
I didn’t like DS9. Maybe because I was such a huge B5 fan and that, in my opinion, they did a far superior job writting babylon 5 that ds9 seemed like a knockoff to me.Â
It funny, the other day my girlfriend mentioned that when ever she watched the show while it was on the air, it just seemed like a bunch of aliens sitting around the bar. I thought for a minute and said, "oh my god, it was Space Cheers!"Â Â :lol:
Could explain a lot, I really disliked cheers! (only time I know of when the spin off was far better than the original! Go Fraiser!)
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you cant beat DS9 as a show and continuing story with many branches. Cant beat such a character mix, cant beat Garak :) Compared to them, Voyager and even NextGen look bloodless.
Having said that, all have their strenghts and moments, I enjoyed all. Shame that the US audience killed Enterprise. -
Enterprise was good. They did a great job of sticking to the storyline in my opinion.
Garak was nice, but he was hardly the depth and breadth of Susan Ivanova!
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Ok, while I love DS9, the Cardassian in me says I have to “hate” Sisko. Lots of things to respond to in this post, so here it goes:
- DS9 was the best overall, but TNG did out do on certain episodes.
- Best Captain was Picard, followed by Kirk (ok, so he fathered millions, but Orion Herpes is nothing to brag about, even if it is the gift that keeps on giving!), then Sisko, then Archer, then probably Captain Garret, then to reference Moneyball, 10 layers of poop, and then Captain Janeway.
- Babylon 5 was good, but DS9 was better at the political/religious storylines of Bajor over that damn Valen BS.
- The Defiant is supreme over all Federation ships
- After Cardassians, the Romulans past, present, and future guys (sin Nemesis) provide the best storylines for the Star Trek Franchise….Klingons are a waste of a good hour of TV…
- Enterprise never gets any respect, especially for the Season 3 arc with the expanse. It was really going in the right direction, but just never got off the ground. I would have loved to seen the Romulan/Federation war.
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You know, I was thinking about it…
Janeway is not my favourite… but in terms of -credentials- doesn’t Captain Janeway have way more than Kirk?
1. Way more first contacts
2. Atleast 20 borg cubes destroyed
3. Formed several of her own alliances
4. Kept her ship going without resupply or reinforcements for seven years
5. Fought more battles than Kirk, against harder opponents, and lost fewer crew
6. First captain to visit fluidic space
7. Murdered one of her own crew members “Tuvix”
8. Defeated fear itself “The Thaw”
9. Built her own ship “Delta Flyer” -
9. Built her own ship “Delta Flyer”
Most of those are not very impressive… but I take umbrage with No. 9.
I am not Voyager expert, but wasn’t Delta Flyer Tom Paris’ ship?
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Ok, while I love DS9, the Cardassian in me says I have to “hate” Sisko. Lots of things to respond to in this post, so here it goes:
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DS9 was the best overall, but TNG did out do on certain episodes.
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The Defiant is supreme over all Federation ships
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Mostly wrong, but partly right. :wink:
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While it is a “tough little ship”, can in no way be considered better than the Enterprise (any of them). Anyone who wants to throw Voyager on top is a moron.
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Anyone who wants to throw Voyager on top is a moron.
Call me a moron then because in regards to Voyager Canon
-With the armor upgrades from the “future” it recieved,
-the borg technology it used,- the multispectral multiphasic shielding,
-and transphasic torpedo’s that can pop a borg cube faster than a zit in one shit.
Voyager was more than capable (on paper) of defeating the Enterprise… and DS9 put together.
Whatever you want to believe, the moron writers of Voyager screwed the storyline and star-trek canon up so bad, that they allowed these kind of kid-like fallacies to exist.
Therby making Voyager the toughest ship in the fleet. Nothing in the federation could match that.
Put the battle of wolf 359 in perspective. The ENTIRE Federation fleet minus the enterprise couldn’t defeat a single Borg cube.
On the day Voyager flew home, she defeated a dozen Borg cubes and spheres, and destroyed an entire transwarp conduit facility. Without even blinking an eye, or losing a crew member.
- the multispectral multiphasic shielding,
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Anyone who wants to throw Voyager on top is a moron.
Call me a moron then
Okay…
Garg’s a moron everyone! :-P
Anyway, I thought we were talking standard ships here, not tricked out future-tech which is basically cheating. The writers had to give Voyager all that crap because otherwise it wouldn’t have survived the Delta Quadrant. Like how they conveniently threw in a bunch of space/time warping phenomena/aliens/or future tech for them to get home in a reasonable amount of time.
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A) Yes, DS9 did a better religious story than B5; but B5 blew them away with subtlety, politics and above all else, SPACE COMBAT! Which, honestly, is the only reason to watch science fiction. Without combat, isn’t it just basically a romance novel with no romance and no novel? :P
B) In regards to Janeway with the cubes and Kirk, Kirk took out the Klingon Empire. Not sure if that’s equivalent to a smattering of cubes, but I would have to say it’s gotta be at least as good if not better. Picard and Janeway together had to work on the Borg situation and even then, they had Klingons and Romulans. Janeway fought the Hirogen to a stand still but Sisko fought (fine, WORF fought!) the Dominion to a stand still. Of course, Sisko had a defunct old battle platform while Janeway had the top of the line science cruiser complete with abaltive hull armor. Meanwhile, poor Kirk is running around in a Constitution Class death trap being held together by spit, prayers and Scotty’s ingenuity!
I guess if it came down too it. I’d take the crew and captain of the Enterprise and Enterprise-A over that of the Enterprice-C and Enterprise-D or Voyager or heck, even the NX Class Enterprise for that matter. (Though, if you ask me, Archer was the cutest captain of the enterprise!)
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I have to side with Alex and say Sisko.
Sisko was most ruthless, most human, and most bearded. Also, I would have a beer with him.
Picard, Kirk, and Janeway (all of whom I like) act tend to act like they are gods or robots.
Klingons are a waste of a good hour of TV…
Even Martok?!?
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The only good Klingon is a DEAD Klingon!
With Sisko, I love it because it’s the most “human” Captain. He has a son. He lost his wife, he met a new chick, married said chick, then got burned for it!
DS9 was better ensemble wise and that factored into the show. I do agree that the other three did act like robots/gods. My problem with Janeway I guess stems from Voyager being terrible along with most of the cast and storylines. Besides Caretaker and the Year of Hell, Voyager failed and so many levels. But the shows mostly revolved around the Captains. I think it was hard to say that for DS9. If you add “…In the Pale Moonlight” to Sisko’s resume, you’ll find that what he had to do in that episode put him a step above the others in many ways.
As for the Enterprise vs. Defiant…remind me again who got owned by a lowly bird of prey?
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Kirk has my vote. I rather liked Archer, too. Picard, Janeway and Sisko - all very different, but basically OK with me. I liked most of the series, but didn’t really care for Deep Space 9. I found that it lacked the spirit of adventure and the sense of optimism of the other variants.
They boldly stayed where many men had been before. -
As for the Enterprise vs. Defiant…remind me again who got owned by a lowly bird of prey?
Well, a couple different Enterprises got owned by Bird’s of Prey. But point taken. Anyone would with effectively no shields.
I’d rather have the Enterprise-D, especially E, any day over Defiant.
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Gotta love this type of total virtual discussion, lets get on with it :)
The Defiant is neither a flagship nor a fleet mainstay nor anything. Its probably a good choice for the type of missions there were. And it did well, considering her development status.
Dont know if a Galaxy class would have been stealthy enough, with or without a cloaking device, and if it would have been agile enough for all those skirmishes. Cloak would have demanded a lot of energy, I guess.As for the Voyager and her praised success against the Borg, well, hardly Star Fleet equipment responsible. Say thank you to Seven of Nine, Captain, otherwise the Voyager would not have got even near to any of those Borg installations. But Seven of Nine and the Doctor were undoubtedly pluses for the show.
But in which DS9 differs so much (and thankfully so) to STTNG and Voyager is the absence of black and white only. Hard choices, shady characters alongside principled ones, and even those have a hard time doing the right thing, and often cant, or dont want to. Someone mentioned the episode “In the pale moonlight”. Now try that with Jean-Luc :)
Garak and Bashir, Odo and Quark, Kira and Damar / Dukat, Dax and the Klingons, so many characters with different mindsets and views interact in this show, I just dont see that anywhere else in that scope. And then Gowron, Martok, Founders, can you ask for more unique characters that have regular appearances?Too few Romulan encounters, as always, but very good when they are here, as always ;)
Cardassians, Dominion, Klingons, all are there, and even if the Borg are always interesting, I dont miss them here. The Klingon / Romulan episodes of Next Gen were good in general, too, though.Whats really hard, though, is deciding the following:
Best Captain: Ok, we had that. No consensus, predictably (thank god for that)
Best Medic: McCoy, Crusher, Bashir, EMH, Phlox (probably 1 and 3, with 4 most entertaining)
Best Science: Spock, Data, Dax, Tuvok, T’Pol (now that is a special tough one)
Best Chief Engineer: Scotty, La Forge, O’Brien, B’Elanna, Tucker (very hard between 1 and 5)
Best Second in Command: Well, that concept was not there always, but we have Riker, Kira and Chakotey (Riker between the two former)
Best Security: A lot of dead ones, Worf (not counting Tasha), Odo, Tuvok, Reed (Odo, surprisingly ;) )Yeah, shame about Enterprise. It was so good to see all those episodes in Season 4 that lead into the future, Dr. Soong, T’Pau, Klingons etc.
And the Expanse thing was hreat as well. Not to mention (if I have not done so in an exasperating manner yet) when they encountered the Roms ;) -
Afterthought to Cmdr Jennifer: Yep, space battles are great. But I always felt that B5 ones look so unreal (if this is a word that should be chosen with space battles), cheesy even. But that surely is a subjective. Politics was good, as far as I remember, also an important component for me.
Btw, found this one by chance, since we had the captains discussion:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKS0GRxpfZc
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@alexgreat:
Best Science: Spock, Data, Dax, Tuvok, T’Pol (now that is a special tough one)
Spock narrowly edges out Dax in my book.
How about best mirror-verse character? Now that’s a tough one!
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@alexgreat:
Afterthought to Cmdr Jennifer: Yep, space battles are great. But I always felt that B5 ones look so unreal (if this is a word that should be chosen with space battles), cheesy even. But that surely is a subjective. Politics was good, as far as I remember, also an important component for me.
I disagree, the humans had rotating sections of their warships to maintain gravity while in Star Trek they never even talk about why they can walk around in space without gravity and then they started coming up with virtual scenario rooms where everyone could walk miles away from each other but still be in the same holodeck. B5 used pulse cannons and short, high intensity beams, Star Trek used phaser arrays with long bursts and didn’t get to pulse cannons until the Galaxy II (3 nacelle Enterprise from last episode of TNG) and the Defiant (for the record BOTH could cloak, so I think a cloak woulda been just fine on the super seksi Sovereign Class (Enterprise D))
Oh and some of the most ancient aliens in B5 still had rotating sections (the flying saucers rotated in the last major skirmish) so they didn’t even try to say everyone learned all the same technologies even after they stopped being interested in the daily affairs of the galaxy, which I think is great since for some reason, everyone and their brother (and hell, even the Yridians???) got cloaking technology in the star trek universe, and holodecks and transporters (seriously, Klingons wouldn’t have been much happier kicking in the door and storming the ship instead of beaming over ever so gracefully to attack?)
Besides, they had the best end ever! “Y’all die, the station blows up, and we declare with a firm, voice, that there are NO MORE STATIONS EVER with finality!” Okay fine, only the captain and the station died, but that was pretty cool! Compared to that, the only Star Trek Captain that comes close is Picard! He’s blown up the Enterprise more often than the worst driver in the United States of America has crashed his car!
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