Japan Tactic to help hold off america

[knp7765]

Commenting on the Aleutian Islands tactic, I have seen it work before. It does depend on the playing style of your US/Allied player.
A little while back, our group was playing a game of Global 40. I was Germany and my buddy was Japan. He sent a transport with a destroyer and 2 infantry and took the Aleutians. The US player realized he would lose his NO and just like elevenjerk said, he sent 2 transports – 1 with 2 inf from Hawaii, 1 with inf/art from W US – along with a cruiser and destroyer to take out the Japanese destroyer and his fighter and tac along with the carrier from SZ 10 to take it back.
The Japanese destroyer hit the US destroyer so the end result was the US had it’s carrier, fighter, tac, cruiser and 2 transports way up there in SZ 8. Japan built some subs and sent 3 of them after the US ships. They killed the cruiser and the carrier although lucky rolls by the carrier meant that 2 subs were lost. However, now the US just lost it’s carrier, a cruiser, a destroyer and 2 transports with a fighter and a tac stranded in the Aleutians along with 2 infantry and an artillery. The US had to build a new carrier and 2 new transports to go up and get those men and artillery.
It was a seemingly minor inconvenience but it cost the US roughly 3 rounds that they could have been doing something more meaningful against Japan with those assets.
In this game, I think it allowed Japan more time to stomp China and deal with India and ANZAC fleets.

[BJCard]

@knp7765:

Commenting on the Aleutian Islands tactic, I have seen it work before. It does depend on the playing style of your US/Allied player.
A little while back, our group was playing a game of Global 40. I was Germany and my buddy was Japan. He sent a transport with a destroyer and 2 infantry and took the Aleutians. The US player realized he would lose his NO and just like elevenjerk said, he sent 2 transports – 1 with 2 inf from Hawaii, 1 with inf/art from W US – along with a cruiser and destroyer to take out the Japanese destroyer and his fighter and tac along with the carrier from SZ 10 to take it back.
The Japanese destroyer hit the US destroyer so the end result was the US had it’s carrier, fighter, tac, cruiser and 2 transports way up there in SZ 8. Japan built some subs and sent 3 of them after the US ships. They killed the cruiser and the carrier although lucky rolls by the carrier meant that 2 subs were lost. However, now the US just lost it’s carrier, a cruiser, a destroyer and 2 transports with a fighter and a tac stranded in the Aleutians along with 2 infantry and an artillery. The US had to build a new carrier and 2 new transports to go up and get those men and artillery.
It was a seemingly minor inconvenience but it cost the US roughly 3 rounds that they could have been doing something more meaningful against Japan with those assets.
In this game, I think it allowed Japan more time to stomp China and deal with India and ANZAC fleets.

I don’t disagree that it can be a pain in the butt for the US, I just question the use of those forces by the Japanese when land troops are usually badly needed elsewhere.  Perhaps if the land war in Asia is already won?  As the US I don’t think I would take the Aleutians back if the Japanese could kill my fleet.

[elevenjerk]

If you sent all of that to India (especially all 4 carriers), than ANZAC will be able to take some DEI and the US will be virtually unopposed in the Pacific (they will have 2-3 carriers of their own).

Also-The UK and France have a DD each in the Indian ocean that can block any attempt on India for at least a turn.

Thats fine.  Not even necessary to take Calcutta.  I’m just saying I have many options with all the transports.  With all the Islands.  I could hang out in the phillipine and pick of any anzac transports.  I could send guys to the mainland.  I could send guys back home.

knp7765

Glad to hear somebody else has seen this happen.  I think I have been misunderstood on the thread.  I never said that you do this move repeatedly.  I always like to have a transport at home with a couple guys ready.  US moves to queensland with no transports available at Hawaii or Western US than I plop a couple guys in Alaska or Aleutians depending on if they have units that can get to Alaska.  Another good time is if they have 2-3 transports in Hawaii poised to take over the carolines. It usually requires three transports cause I like to land a couple planes in there.  Thats when you put the guys in the islands or Alaska so they have to make a decision.  Carolines or 5 ipc bonus.  if they just send tt they won’t get Carolines for another couple turns.  If they leave it alone then they only make 65 -67 ipcs a turn.  This turned more into my J4 strat guide, which now I am thinking about putting in the time to make one.

ghr2

I think you were the one that wanted me to get on Triple A?  I have no idea how it works playing somebody else but I will see if it still comes up on my computer and if not I will reinstall it.  As long as you can be patient with my inexperience with the system I would be down for a game.

[BJCard]

I get your point, but I am not sure how you can have a transport or two sitting at Japan and have a large Navy at the Philippines.  The US should be able to destroy your navy piecemeal if it is split up.  Usually after war with the US I cannot build any ships at Japan because my Navy is at Philippines and the US would just kill what I build.

ANZAC would happily trade transports for islands.

[elevenjerk]

I am not sure how you can have a transport or two sitting at Japan and have a large Navy at the Philippines

You only need one transport.  3 planes in japan.  A destroyer or 2 in sz 6 and 1 destroyer in sz 16.  If US wants to commit its navy to sz 16 and all its planes to take out sz 6 stuff thats fine.  As the Allies it has never been good for me to set up shop in sz 16.  Too limited on what you can do next.  With Japans fleet at phillipines and most other planes in Kwangsi if the US moves to sz 6 it will surely be death.

ANZAC would happily trade transports for islands.

With Japan fleet at phillipines it would only be a trade once, twice at most.  Japan could easily take the island back while wiping out whatever Anzac navy has built leaving guys on Java.  Anzac only making 19 ipcs at the most (assuming they have New Guinea and snag Java). Anzac buys another transport and a destroyer maybe with an inf.  2 guys won’t be enough to take back the only island they can get to (Java).  If you don’t buy a destroyer, all Japan has to do is leave a destroyer by Java so your transport can’t get there.  Say you had purchased a MIC in Queensland.  Any naval unit you placed there could get taken out easy by the navy at the phillipines.

All these options you bring up are very viable options for the Allies and they all work in certain situations.  I just disagree with the general notion that a J4 could never be successful.  I will work on a guide and try to make it half as good as the ones Cow puts out and maybe it will promote people trying it.  If not, no big deal:)

[BJCard]

ANZAC threatening islands does force Japan into retaking them.  This in combination with India threatening SE Asia/Yunnan;  Russia threatening Manchuria/Korea; and the US threatening Japan and Carolines- create lots of places Japan needs to worry about, but may not be able to handle all at once- leaving weak points the Allies can exploit.

The US doesn’t have to go into the Japan SZ hard, but if its only a DD and 3 fighters to get through, they could send some forces in there- they have had 3 full turns to build up a Pacific fleet, so it should be quite large.  Plus doubtful that Japan is going to attack wake island so the Philippine fighter could be there to join in the battle.  Anything to knock down some Japanese air.

I would have to see your J4 in action, it just seems like Japan is in a marginally better position while the Allies are in a much better position, due to increased money/larger forces for India/ANZAC.

One thing that I would agree with though- a J4 can be deadly in combination with a G1 attack on Russia.  US has to wait 3 whole turns to be able to help the UK out.  Especially if Japan attacks Russia early- they can hit Russia in the pocketbook quickly.

[elevenjerk]

I am going to post a J4 strat soon.  When I feel like typing out a novel:)

Take a peek at that.  There will be tons of what ifs… but it does show how you can knock china down by the end of turn 3.

The allies can really dictate a lot of it as well.
If Russia makes themselves available turn 2 or 3 then you probably take them out.  If US leaves navy available to take after turn 1 then the whole thing changes.  If Anzac doesn’t protect at all then on turn 3 you can make them pay.  If India attacks in order to restore yunnan to the allies then japan has a bunch of available transports to take islands with no fear of the US for another turn or 2.

Look for the thread and you can rip it apart on that one:)

[BJCard]

@elevenjerk:

I am going to post a J4 strat soon.  When I feel like typing out a novel:)

Take a peek at that.  There will be tons of what ifs… but it does show how you can knock china down by the end of turn 3.

The allies can really dictate a lot of it as well.
If Russia makes themselves available turn 2 or 3 then you probably take them out.  If US leaves navy available to take after turn 1 then the whole thing changes.  If Anzac doesn’t protect at all then on turn 3 you can make them pay.  If India attacks in order to restore yunnan to the allies then japan has a bunch of available transports to take islands with no fear of the US for another turn or 2.

Look for the thread and you can rip it apart on that one:)

Not trying to rip you apart, just posing questions that you may not have thought about.  :evil:

[BombsAway]

Really like the Aluetian strat, given the right circumstaces.  As for your J4 strat, keep in mind that UK/Anzac will almost surely attack rnd 3 as there’s virtually no drawback.

[elevenjerk]

except for sure death :-D

Yea, thats generally what happens but by that point it usually doesn’t mean much.  I can usually take away the bonuses for Anzac and UK if they attack and US still can’t do anything till turn 4.  It actually helps in taking the islands over without spreading very thin.  In the perfect scenario, UK would have to attack on turn 2 in order to hold the road.  If they do then they are really in trouble.  If they don’t you can land most of your air force in Yunnan and its all over but the crying for Calcutta.

[elevenjerk]

Really like the Aluetian strat

Thanks for the compliment by the way.  I will be posting my J4 strat pretty soon. I believe it will garner much debate.  Ill give you a preview though.  At the end of turn 3 Japan will have….

2 AC loaded, 2 BB, 1 CV, 1 DD, 2 TT loaded with 2 inf and 2 art in sz 42
1 AC loaded, 1 CV, 1 DD, 4 TT loaded with 6 inf and 2 art in sz 35
3 TT loaded in sz 6 as well

That should be able to cover any attacks from anybody and still take isands on turn 4 possibly all income (Malaya,Kwantung,Shan,FIC)

[ghr2]

I really feel like you should test this strategy on experienced players before you assume its viable

[BJCard]

@ghr2:

I really feel like you should test this strategy on experienced players before you assume its viable

Agreed.

[elevenjerk]

Just because I use a strategy that you have never executed effectively or had executed on you effectively does not make it any less “viable”.  Im not on here questioning your skill level or the skill level of the people you play.

[BJCard]

@elevenjerk:

Just because I use a strategy that you have never executed effectively or had executed on you effectively does not make it any less “viable”.  Im not on here questioning your skill level or the skill level of the people you play.

I never said your strategy isn’t viable, just that at first glance it seems sub-optimal.  It may very well turn out to work well.

There have been a lot of 1940 games played and the majority of players would not wait until J4 for attack, or if they do it is to keep the US out of the war because Germany is going all out on Russia turn 1.  But in that case they are not really going for victory in the Pacific, but rather victory in Europe.

I would have to see this in action combined with what you do in Europe.

[Stalingradski]

elvenjerk -

I’m late to this discussion, but the essence of what you’re saying is “does a transport and a couple infantry from Japan to the Aleutians help to hold off the US in the Pacific”.

The answer is absolutely, unequivocally yes.

But it’s a qualified yes.

Here’s how I see it (I’ve done it and had it done to me): Japan’s job is simple - take DEI take China take India suck economy from Russia fend off US fend off Anzac maintain economy take away economy get victory cities  :-D

While in the pursuit of those tasks, I always glance over to see what the US has to bring against me on the next turn… what are they up to? If they have no transports in range, no carriers are in range with aircraft, and one of my other main agenda items doesn’t immediately need the troops, I’ll pull the trigger on the Aleutians.

I want to say - I’ve had it done to me. I purchased the requisite transport, infantry, artillery, and threw down a bomber to get it back. I figured the bomber was worth it and would be in play the rest of the game. Guess what? My marines couldn’t take it back, even with solid air support. It was an absolute thorn, and the economic exchange for Japan was more than worth it.

It can have another, more important effect: let’s say you’re in a tenuous transport war over the Phillipines/DEI with the Allies. Making the US turn around and spend a turn dealing with your stiletto jab could actually cost them the initiative in the Pacific. The ripple effects could be enormous.

So yes, it can work. I rarely do it, but I take a look over at the Aleutians every single turn.

[Stalingradski]

And elvenjerk - J4s work just fine. I do them all the time. They really work people who are used to J1/J2 into a lather…

“What the bleep is Japan doing not attacking me, letting my fleet get away, and letting my economy grow… I’ll surely win this game! And why are they building all those transports…”

Then they find out.

[BJCard]

@Stalingradski:

And elvenjerk - J4s work just fine. I do them all the time. They really work people who are used to J1/J2 into a lather…

“What the bleep is Japan doing not attacking me, letting my fleet get away, and letting my economy grow… I’ll surely win this game! And why are they building all those transports…”

Then they find out.

True, J4’s can work, but it depends on what Germany/Italy are doing.  If Germany isn’t doing a G1/G2 attack on Russia, then what is Japan waiting for?

[Stalingradski]

Germany is doing a G4 as well. Hey, it works for me.

Everyone is so hasty!  :-D

I see the charm in a G1 + J1/J2… it makes great sense. It’s a matter of taste - it’s possible to win either way.

[Stalingradski]

I realized I didn’t answer your question…

The answer is - setting yourself up to have it all - China, DEI, and eventually India.

The first key is to kick the snot out of China for a few rounds, uncontested. I like to park all my aircraft in Kwangsi, and use straight aircraft to kill the Chinese in Szechwan on J2 - no matter the size of the stack. That means the Burma Road is only collected on once. That matters quite a bit, and losing a couple fighters with Japan is completely worth it.

Build one IC - that’s all for now. I see people make the mistake (in my opinion) of building three, or more. Why? Transports are so much more versatile, and do the same thing - they just need to be properly protected. You start with all the air power in the world you’ll ever need to maintain a large fleet.

Build a couple transports each round. Get to at least six, or seven. Then don’t be afraid to keep buying them as needed throughout the game.

Then, turn and prepare for island taking, with the transports you’ve been building. It’s a creative process from there - it would be boring to try to go  blow by blow, because every game is different. A lot depends on what the Allies have been up to with their staging.

The goal is to keep contesting the DEI, finishing off China, and engaging in a war of attrition with India. In the meantime, timely purchasing of carriers and destroyers is everything. A second IC makes great sense in F Indo, or Malaya once your infrastructure is set up. Then if you’ve been patient, you can settle into a long, slow dismantling of India.

It also works to take out India very, very quickly - just not my style.