L13 G40 PGMatt (axis) vs Gamerman (allies +10) +tech game 1

[gamerman01]

Yes, right now you are learning my most formidable
“give London away on a silver platter to make the opponent over-confident” gambit

[Seador]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.6

Game History

Round :4

Politics - Germans
            Germans takes Political Action: Political Action Germans To War With Chinese
                Germans succeeds on action: Political Action Germans To War With Chinese: Changing Relationship for Germans and Chinese from Neutrality to War

Research Technology - Germans
            Germans spend 10 on tech rolls
            Germans removing all Technology Tokens after successful research.
            Germans discover Super subs

Activate Technology - Germans
            Germans activating Super subs

Purchase Units - Germans
            Germans buy 2 destroyers, 12 infantry, 2 submarines and 2 transports; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; 0 techTokens;

Combat Move - Germans
            1 infantry moved from United Kingdom to Scotland
                  Germans take Scotland from British

Combat - Germans

Non Combat Move - Germans
            1 armour moved from Southern France to Northern Italy
            1 infantry moved from Southern France to France
            2 infantry moved from Holland Belgium to France
            3 fighters moved from Holland Belgium to United Kingdom
            1 fighter and 2 tactical_bombers moved from Holland Belgium to Western Germany
            2 bombers moved from Holland Belgium to Western Germany
            1 tactical_bomber moved from Holland Belgium to Southern Italy
            2 tactical_bombers moved from Holland Belgium to Germany
            3 aaGuns moved from Holland Belgium to Western Germany
            4 infantry moved from Romania to Slovakia Hungary
            2 aaGuns, 3 artilleries and 11 infantry moved from Poland to Slovakia Hungary
            2 artilleries and 5 infantry moved from Germany to Slovakia Hungary
            2 armour and 2 mech_infantrys moved from Western Germany to Germany
            1 armour moved from Western Germany to Germany
            1 aaGun moved from Western Germany to Germany
            1 infantry moved from Finland to Norway

Place Units - Germans
            1 destroyer placed in 110 Sea Zone
            1 destroyer, 2 submarines and 2 transports placed in 113 Sea Zone
            3 infantry placed in France
            4 infantry placed in Western Germany
            5 infantry placed in Germany

Turn Complete - Germans
            Germans collect 50 PUs; end with 50 PUs total
            Trigger Germans 5 Swedish Iron Ore: Germans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 55 PUs

Territory Summary for Germans :

Scotland : 1 flag, 1 airfield and 1 infantry
    United Kingdom : 1 flag, 1 airfield, 2 armour, 5 artilleries, 1 factory_minor, 3 fighters, 1 harbour and 1 infantry
    Normandy Bordeaux : 1 flag, 1 factory_minor and 1 harbour
    Southern France : 1 flag, 1 factory_minor and 1 harbour
    France : 1 flag, 1 airfield, 1 factory_minor and 6 infantry
    Slovakia Hungary : 2 aaGuns, 3 armour, 7 artilleries and 29 infantry
    Western Germany : 3 aaGuns, 1 airfield, 2 bombers, 1 factory_major, 1 fighter, 1 harbour, 4 infantry and 2 tactical_bombers
    Romania : 1 infantry
    Poland : 1 infantry
    Germany : 1 aaGun, 3 armour, 1 factory_major, 5 infantry, 2 mech_infantrys and 2 tactical_bombers
    Norway : 2 infantry
    Northern Italy : 1 armour
    Southern Italy : 1 tactical_bomber
    113 Sea Zone : 1 destroyer, 2 submarines and 2 transports
    Bulgaria : 1 flag
    Finland : 1 flag
    110 Sea Zone : 1 destroyer

Production/PUs Summary :

Germans : 50 / 55
    Russians : 36 / 41
    Japanese : 45 / 60
    Americans : 53 / 78
    Chinese : 7 / 8
    British : 21 / 0
    UK_Pacific : 15 / 14
    Italians : 15 / 20
    ANZAC : 12 / 17
    French : 7 / 0
    Dutch : 0 / 0
    Mongolians : 0 / 0
    Neutral_Axis : 2 / 0
    Neutral_Allies : 2 / 0
    Neutral_True : 18 / 0

[Seador]

@Gamerman01:

Yes, right now you are learning my most formidable
“give London away on a silver platter to make the opponent over-confident” gambit

well, I missed the french fighter killing my gib liberating german transport, so I think we are even now.

[gamerman01]

@PGMatt:

@Gamerman01:

Yes, right now you are learning my most formidable
“give London away on a silver platter to make the opponent over-confident” gambit

well, I missed the french fighter killing my gib liberating german transport, so I think we are even now.

I know - that was huge.  I was a couple minutes late going to my volunteer assignment at noon today because I wanted to hurry up and move ANZ and France before you caught it and defended it with an Italian ship

:-D  :-D

First a gamer

[gamerman01]

I love playing Russia anyway, so I’m in my glory now…

[gamerman01]

Get a load of this:

@allweneedislove:

Increased factory production � your economies of scale now let you produce 1 or 2(minor or major) more units per factory and your labourers have found an ingenious way of repairing bombed factories for half the cost.

But for 30ipc you could just build a new major complex that lets you build 10 more units and probably closer to the front.  In G40 we have factories that have built in aaguns, interceptors, and a larger map all making bombing factories rare so being able to repair at half the cost is not a big benefit.

@allweneedislove:

Radar � your electronic engineers have probably turned the war in your favour by using RAdio Detection And Ranging. so your aaguns get 1 extra defensive pip.

This tech is to protect ground units. The best protection for ground units is more ground units so you could buy 10 more infantry. However this is hard to rationalize because if your opponent sends 18 or more air units into an attack that has radar defence then your opponent has lost as much ipc as you have spent to acquire it.

I think it is a waste of money but not as bad as most techs.

Hehe, I beg to differ.
Increased production and radar are AWESOME

[gamerman01]

And Russia CAN’T buy another major

[gamerman01]

In the combat move phase, want to alter the buy…

Exchange 1 artillery for mech
Exhange 4 infantry for 2 armor
Exchange 4 infantry for 3 mech

So, buying 6 mech, 2 armor
Mobility!

[gamerman01]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsW9MlYu31g

[gamerman01]

2nd time I forgot that sub in 110

Moving it to 91 in edit mode before rolling the dice
OK, time to resolve battles

[gamerman01]

My turn to get ridiculous dice…  Jeez…  what a slaughter

Last time I attacked with higher odds than that against someone recently, I couldn’t roll any ones at all and got drubbed
Attacking with all infantry is very dicey

[gamerman01]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.6

Game History

Round :4

Research Technology - Russians
            Russians spend 5 on tech rolls
            Russians removing all Technology Tokens after unsuccessful research.

Purchase Units - Russians
            Russians buy 1 artillery, 8 infantry and 2 mech_infantrys; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; 0 techTokens;

Combat Move - Russians
            1 infantry moved from Novgorod to 127 Sea Zone
            1 infantry moved from Siberia to Soviet Far East
                  Russians take Soviet Far East from Japanese
            13 infantry moved from Amur to Manchuria
            1 fighter moved from Novgorod to Norway
            1 mech_infantry moved from Novgorod to Finland
                  Russians take Finland from Germans
            1 artillery moved from Novgorod to 127 Sea Zone
            1 artillery, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 127 Sea Zone to 126 Sea Zone
            1 infantry moved from 126 Sea Zone to Norway
            1 artillery moved from 126 Sea Zone to Norway
            1 infantry moved from Eastern Poland to Poland
            1 infantry moved from Eastern Poland to Romania
            1 infantry moved from Eastern Poland to Romania
            1 tactical_bomber moved from Caucasus to Romania
            1 fighter moved from Novgorod to Poland
            1 infantry moved from Eastern Poland to Poland

Combat - Russians
            Russians creates battle in territory 110 Sea Zone
            Germans scrambles 3 units out of United Kingdom to defend against the attack in 110 Sea Zone
            Turning on Edit Mode
            EDIT: Adding units owned by Russians to 91 Sea Zone: 1 submarine
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Russians from 110 Sea Zone: 1 submarine
            EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
            Battle in Norway
                Russians attack with 1 artillery, 1 fighter and 1 infantry
                Germans defend with 2 infantry
                Russians win, taking Norway from Germans with 1 artillery, 1 fighter and 1 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 6
                Casualties for Germans: 2 infantry
            Battle in 110 Sea Zone
                Germans defend with 1 destroyer and 3 fighters
            Battle in Poland
                Russians attack with 1 fighter and 2 infantry
                Germans defend with 1 infantry
                Russians winGermans win with 1 destroyer and 3 fighters remaining, taking Poland from Germans with 1 fighter and 1 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 0
                Casualties for Germans: 1 infantry
                Casualties for Russians: 1 infantry
            Battle in Romania
                Russians attack with 2 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber
                Germans defend with 1 infantry
                Russians win, taking Romania from Germans with 2 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
                Casualties for Germans: 1 infantry
            Battle in Manchuria
                Russians attack with 13 infantry
                Japanese defend with 8 infantry
                Russians win, taking Manchuria from Japanese with 12 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 21
                Casualties for Japanese: 8 infantry
                Casualties for Russians: 1 infantry
            Moving scrambled unit from 110 Sea Zone back to originating territory: United Kingdom
            Moving scrambled unit from 110 Sea Zone back to originating territory: United Kingdom
            Moving scrambled unit from 110 Sea Zone back to originating territory: United Kingdom

Non Combat Move - Russians
            3 infantry moved from Siberia to Amur
            3 infantry moved from Ukraine to Bessarabia
            1 artillery and 4 infantry moved from Western Ukraine to Bessarabia
            1 fighter moved from Poland to Novgorod
            1 mech_infantry moved from Northwest Persia to Rostov
            1 fighter moved from Norway to Karelia
            2 armour and 2 mech_infantrys moved from Caucasus to Ukraine
            1 tactical_bomber moved from Romania to Bessarabia
            2 aaGuns moved from Eastern Poland to Bessarabia
            3 armour moved from Eastern Poland to Bessarabia
            6 artilleries and 20 infantry moved from Eastern Poland to Bessarabia
            1 infantry moved from Novgorod to Belarus
            1 armour moved from Eastern Poland to Novgorod
            2 aaGuns moved from Eastern Poland to Bessarabia

Place Units - Russians
            1 artillery, 8 infantry and 2 mech_infantrys placed in Russia

Turn Complete - Russians
            Russians collect 47 PUs; end with 47 PUs total
            Trigger Russians 1 Lend Lease: Russians met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 52 PUs
            Objective Russians 2 Spread Of Communism: Russians met a national objective for an additional 12 PUs; end with 64 PUs
            Turning on Edit Mode
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Russians from Russia: 1 artillery, 8 infantry and 2 mech_infantrys
            EDIT: Adding units owned by Russians to Ukraine: 2 armour and 2 mech_infantrys
            EDIT: Adding units owned by Russians to Novgorod: 4 mech_infantrys
            EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode

[gamerman01]

Wait, there’s a flaw in the slaw

[gamerman01]

Ready now

[Seador]

@Gamerman01:

Wait, there’s a flaw in the slaw

nice turn of phrase.

On a bit of tech roll here http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=30201.new#new

Heavy bombers’ only apply to strat bombers right?  and only 1 hit per plane max, just two dice to get it.

[Seador]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.6

Game History

Round :4

Research Technology - Japanese
            Japanese spend 10 on tech rolls
                Japanese roll 4,3 and gets 0 hits
            Japanese removing all Technology Tokens after unsuccessful research.

Purchase Units - Japanese
            Japanese buy 1 carrier, 3 destroyers, 2 infantry and 1 mech_infantry; Remaining resources: 6 SuicideAttackTokens; 0 PUs; 0 techTokens;

Combat Move - Japanese
            Trigger Japanese Unrestricted Movement: Setting movementRestrictionTerritories cleared  for rulesAttatchment attached to Japanese
            1 fighter moved from 42 Sea Zone to 41 Sea Zone
            1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from Java to 42 Sea Zone
            2 infantry moved from Celebes to 44 Sea Zone
            2 infantry and 1 transport moved from 44 Sea Zone to 41 Sea Zone
            2 infantry moved from 41 Sea Zone to Sumatra
            1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from 42 Sea Zone to Sumatra
            1 artillery, 1 battleship, 1 cruiser, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 42 Sea Zone to 37 Sea Zone
            1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from 37 Sea Zone to Malaya
            1 carrier moved from 42 Sea Zone to 41 Sea Zone
            1 tactical_bomber moved from 42 Sea Zone to Sumatra
            1 cruiser moved from 42 Sea Zone to 41 Sea Zone
            1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from 42 Sea Zone to Malaya
            2 carriers moved from 42 Sea Zone to 37 Sea Zone
            1 infantry moved from Szechwan to Yunnan
            2 fighters and 2 tactical_bombers moved from Kwangsi to Yunnan
            3 artilleries moved from Kwangtung to Kiangsi
            1 armour moved from Hopei to Kansu
                  Japanese take Suiyuyan from Chinese
            1 infantry and 2 mech_infantrys moved from Hopei to Shensi
            2 fighters moved from Chahar to Kansu
            1 tactical_bomber moved from Jehol to Shensi
            2 infantry moved from Kiangsu to Kiangsi
            1 destroyer moved from 42 Sea Zone to 37 Sea Zone
            1 destroyer moved from 42 Sea Zone to 35 Sea Zone
            2 bombers moved from Kiangsu to Yunnan

Combat - Japanese
            Battle in 41 Sea Zone
                Japanese attack with 1 carrier, 1 cruiser, 1 fighter and 1 transport
                British defend with 1 transport
                    1 transport owned by the British lost in 41 Sea Zone
                Japanese win, taking 41 Sea Zone from Neutral with 1 carrier, 1 cruiser, 1 fighter and 1 transport remaining. Battle score for attacker is 7
                Casualties for British: 1 transport
            Battle in Shensi
                Japanese attack with 1 infantry, 2 mech_infantrys and 1 tactical_bomber
                Chinese defend with 1 infantry
                    Japanese roll dice for 1 infantry, 2 mech_infantrys and 1 tactical_bomber in Shensi, round 1 :  1/4 hits
                    Chinese roll dice for 1 infantry in Shensi, round 1 :  0/1 hits
                    1 infantry owned by the Chinese lost in Shensi
                Japanese win, taking Shensi from Chinese with 1 infantry, 2 mech_infantrys and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
                Casualties for Chinese: 1 infantry
            Battle in Sumatra
                Japanese attack with 1 fighter, 2 infantry and 2 tactical_bombers
                British defend with 1 infantry
                    Japanese roll dice for 1 fighter, 2 infantry and 2 tactical_bombers in Sumatra, round 1 :  2/5 hits
                    UK_Pacific roll dice for 1 infantry in Sumatra, round 1 :  0/1 hits
                    1 infantry owned by the British lost in Sumatra
                Japanese win, taking Sumatra from UK_Pacific with 1 fighter, 2 infantry and 2 tactical_bombers remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
                Casualties for British: 1 infantry
            Battle in Malaya
                Japanese attack with 1 artillery, 1 fighter, 1 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber
                ANZAC defend with 1 infantry; UK_Pacific defend with 1 harbour
                    Japanese roll dice for 1 battleship and 1 cruiser in Malaya, round 1 :  0/2 hits
                    Japanese roll dice for 1 artillery, 1 fighter, 1 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber in Malaya, round 1 :  2/4 hits
                    UK_Pacific roll dice for 1 infantry in Malaya, round 1 :  1/1 hits
                    1 infantry owned by the ANZAC and 1 artillery owned by the Japanese lost in Malaya
                Japanese win, taking Malaya from UK_Pacific with 1 fighter, 1 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is -1
                Casualties for Japanese: 1 artillery
                Casualties for ANZAC: 1 infantry
            Battle in Yunnan
                Japanese attack with 2 bombers, 2 fighters, 1 infantry and 2 tactical_bombers
                British defend with 1 armour and 1 infantry
                    Japanese roll dice for 2 bombers, 2 fighters, 1 infantry and 2 tactical_bombers in Yunnan, round 1 :  3/7 hits
                    Chinese roll dice for 1 armour and 1 infantry in Yunnan, round 1 :  1/2 hits
                    1 infantry owned by the British , 1 armour owned by the British and 1 tactical_bomber owned by the Japanese lost in Yunnan
                Japanese win, taking Yunnan from Chinese with 2 bombers, 2 fighters, 1 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is -2
                Casualties for Japanese: 1 tactical_bomber
                Casualties for British: 1 armour and 1 infantry
            Battle in Kiangsi
                Japanese attack with 3 artilleries and 2 infantry
                ANZAC defend with 1 fighter; British defend with 1 infantry
                    Japanese roll dice for 3 artilleries and 2 infantry in Kiangsi, round 1 :  1/5 hits
                    Chinese roll dice for 1 fighter and 1 infantry in Kiangsi, round 1 :  1/2 hits
                    1 infantry owned by the British and 1 infantry owned by the Japanese lost in Kiangsi
                    Japanese roll dice for 3 artilleries and 1 infantry in Kiangsi, round 2 :  0/4 hits
                    Chinese roll dice for 1 fighter in Kiangsi, round 2 :  0/1 hits
                    Japanese roll dice for 3 artilleries and 1 infantry in Kiangsi, round 3 :  0/4 hits
                    Chinese roll dice for 1 fighter in Kiangsi, round 3 :  1/1 hits
                    1 infantry owned by the Japanese lost in Kiangsi
                    Japanese roll dice for 3 artilleries in Kiangsi, round 4 :  1/3 hits
                    Chinese roll dice for 1 fighter in Kiangsi, round 4 :  1/1 hits
                    1 fighter owned by the ANZAC and 1 artillery owned by the Japanese lost in Kiangsi
                Japanese win, taking Kiangsi from Chinese with 2 artilleries remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
                Casualties for Japanese: 1 artillery and 2 infantry
                Casualties for ANZAC: 1 fighter
                Casualties for British: 1 infantry
            Battle in Kansu
                Japanese attack with 1 armour and 2 fighters
                Chinese defend with 1 infantry
                    Japanese roll dice for 1 armour and 2 fighters in Kansu, round 1 :  2/3 hits
                    Chinese roll dice for 1 infantry in Kansu, round 1 :  1/1 hits
                    1 infantry owned by the Chinese and 1 fighter owned by the Japanese lost in Kansu
                Japanese win, taking Kansu from Chinese with 1 armour and 1 fighter remaining. Battle score for attacker is -7
                Casualties for Japanese: 1 fighter
                Casualties for Chinese: 1 infantry

Non Combat Move - Japanese
            1 fighter moved from Kansu to Chahar
            1 tactical_bomber moved from Shensi to Hopei
            1 aaGun and 1 armour moved from Jehol to Anhwe
            1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from Chahar to Anhwe
            2 fighters moved from Jehol to 6 Sea Zone
            2 bombers, 2 fighters and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Yunnan to Kiangsu
            1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Malaya to 37 Sea Zone
            1 tactical_bomber moved from Sumatra to 41 Sea Zone
            1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Sumatra to 37 Sea Zone

Place Units - Japanese
            1 carrier and 3 destroyers placed in 6 Sea Zone
            2 infantry and 1 mech_infantry placed in Kiangsu

Turn Complete - Japanese
            Total Cost from Convoy Blockades: 4
                Rolling for Convoy Blockade Damage in 6 Sea Zone. Rolls: 3,6,6,1
            Japanese collect 49 PUs (4 lost to blockades); end with 49 PUs total
            Objective Japanese 4 Control Dutch East Indies: Japanese met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 54 PUs

Territory Summary for Japanese :

Paulau Island : 1 infantry
    Kiangsu : 2 bombers, 1 factory_minor, 2 fighters, 2 infantry, 2 mech_infantrys and 1 tactical_bomber
    Kiangsi : 2 artilleries
    Japan : 3 aaGuns, 1 airfield, 1 factory_major, 3 fighters, 1 harbour and 5 infantry
    Hainan : 1 harbour
    Shensi : 1 flag, 1 infantry and 2 mech_infantrys
    Yunnan : 1 flag, 1 infantry
    Suiyuyan : 1 flag
    Kweichow : 1 flag
    Hunan : 1 flag
    Kansu : 1 flag, 1 armour
    Hopei : 1 flag, 1 tactical_bomber
    Szechwan : 1 flag
    Chahar : 1 flag, 1 fighter
    Anhwe : 1 flag, 1 aaGun, 1 armour, 1 artillery and 1 infantry
    Malaya : 1 flag, 1 harbour and 1 infantry
    Borneo : 1 flag, 1 infantry
    Kwangtung : 1 flag, 1 harbour
    Celebes : 1 flag
    Java : 1 flag
    Sumatra : 1 flag, 2 infantry
    42 Sea Zone : 1 flag
    41 Sea Zone : 1 flag, 1 carrier, 1 cruiser, 1 fighter, 1 tactical_bomber and 1 transport
    37 Sea Zone : 1 flag, 1 battleship, 2 carriers, 1 cruiser, 1 destroyer, 2 fighters, 2 tactical_bombers and 1 transport
    35 Sea Zone : 1 destroyer
    6 Sea Zone : 1 carrier, 3 destroyers and 2 fighters

Production/PUs Summary :

Germans : 40 / 55
    Russians : 47 / 64
    Japanese : 53 / 54
    Americans : 53 / 78
    Chinese : 5 / 8
    British : 21 / 0
    UK_Pacific : 8 / 14
    Italians : 15 / 20
    ANZAC : 12 / 17
    French : 7 / 0
    Dutch : 0 / 0
    Mongolians : 0 / 0
    Neutral_Axis : 2 / 0
    Neutral_Allies : 2 / 0
    Neutral_True : 18 / 0

[gamerman01]

@PGMatt:

@Gamerman01:

Wait, there’s a flaw in the slaw

nice turn of phrase.

On a bit of tech roll here http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=30201.new#new

Heavy bombers’ only apply to strat bombers right?  and only 1 hit per plane max, just two dice to get it.

I ripped it off from Roscoe P. Coltraine of the Dukes of Hazzard

Will look at your tech roll later - gotta run

Heavy bombers only apply to strategic bombers, although Triple A changes the graphics for tac bombers as well.  But tac bombers get no upgrade.

1 hit per plane max.  It’s best of 2 dice.  For SBR’s as well.

[gamerman01]

You can out-tech me at this point with G/J/I 'cause I can only really buy it with USA and Russia right now  :-)

[gamerman01]

@PGMatt:

On a bit of tech roll here http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=30201.new#new

You’re right - that’s a “bit” of a tech roll  :wink:  2 techs on 5 dice is only half of a roll, but it could be the start of one.

http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=29763.0

How about 4 techs on 10 dice, with USA getting 3 consecutive techs with 1 die?

Jeff is being victimized as well
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=29721.new#new
Not sure how many attempts I’ve made on that one - not too many - I rarely buy 2 at a time, and I think you’re a crazy man for spending 10 on tech on R1 vs. Karl  :-)  Or that you really love getting techs!  And fun is the name of the game.

Surprised Karl is playing with tech after playing me a couple times.

I don’t understand all these players who play tech and then don’t buy any at all.  (Karl, Allweneed, Jeff, to name a few)  :-)

OK, time for the wicked US/UK combo!

Wait.  Time for the wicked USA combo!  :lol:

[gamerman01]

Aw, man!  No graphics improvement for advanced artillery?  That’s a major disappointment.