Can you hold your buy?

[Young Grasshopper]

I was told in FAQ over a year ago that units can be held in limbo for one round if the player is not ready to place a unit for any reason (this is bull crap). So what is it now… what if someone doesn’t want to place a lone transport because they didn’t see the bomber that could reach it? do they get a refund for that, are they forced to place it and lose $7, or is it only when you can’t place it due to IC capacity?

[kcdzim]

@Young:

I was told in FAQ over a year ago that units can be held in limbo for one round if the player is not ready to place a unit for any reason (this is bull crap). So what is it now… what if someone doesn’t want to place a lone transport because they didn’t see the bomber that could reach it? do they get a refund for that, are they forced to place it and lose $7, or is it only when you can’t place it due to IC capacity?

Only when you can’t place due to capacity.  If things didn’t go your way, or you missed a vulnerability, you have to place as best you can and hope your opponent didn’t notice.

But…  other than the requirement to locate a carrier, I’m not certain that you’re required to place optimally.  So, in theory you could place all land units at your only factory adjacent to a seazone, thereby causing your boats to get refunded.  But you’d have to have enough land units purchased and limited factories to manage that.

[Krieghund]

@Young:

I was told in FAQ over a year ago that units can be held in limbo for one round if the player is not ready to place a unit for any reason (this is bull crap).

I believe you are mistaken.

@kcdzim:

But…  other than the requirement to locate a carrier, I’m not certain that you’re required to place optimally.

Yes, you are.  You must mobilize all of the units that you can.

[lozmoid]

Krieghund, can you please explain the reasoning that went into the differences in the rules for the Mobilize New Units phase, from 50th Anniversary Edition to the new Europe & Pacific 1940 games? It seems to me that the older way was better (AA50) in that if you’d purchased more units than you could place then the superfluous units remained in the mobilization zone until your next turn.

And while you’re at it, would you mind explaining the thought processes that went into the differences in the rules for the Research & Development phase from AA50, and the optional rules for Technology in the new Global 1940 game? I would specifically like to know why the rules have changed so that each attempt at tech is now a one-shot only chance (Global), whereas in AA50 you could buy tech tokens that you could keep between turns to allow you to try for a tech until you were successful. Again, I preferred the old way as the tech tokens were more of an investment and I think that AA50 really got it right there. As it is now, my gaming group very rarely buys tech anymore when playing Global 1940.

If you have already posted on these subjects before then forgive me, I must have missed it. Thank you very much for your consideration.  :-)

[knp7765]

Lozmoid,
Why don’t you just house rule the tech tokens from AA50 into your Global 40 game? That’s what we do. Ever since AA50, we have never rolled for tech without buying the tokens first.

As for purchasing and mobilizing units, it seems pretty clear to me. If you purchase more units than you can mobilize, then you mobilize what you can and the remaining units wait until next round, or you simply add the cost of that unit(s) back into your IPC total to spend next round. Also, if you have any units that didn’t get placed and you lose your capital, those units are simply lost.
Frankly, I don’t understand why you would purchase units if you didn’t intend to mobilize them. Why not simply save the IPCs and use them next turn. That seems much simpler and more flexible to me.

Say you bought a tank that you for some reason don’t mobilize. Then next round things change on the board and you decide you want navy. Now you are stuck with that tank. However, if you simply saved those 6 IPCs, you could now buy a submarine instead.

[lozmoid]

Hi knp7765,

Thanks for your input.

Why don’t you just house rule the tech tokens from AA50 into your Global 40 game? That’s what we do. Ever since AA50, we have never rolled for tech without buying the tokens first.

Well, I’ve always preferred to play OOB rules as written because that’s how the designer intended them, so I’ve never really used house rules. But I think, in this instance, I may do so.

As for purchasing and mobilizing units, it seems pretty clear to me. If you purchase more units than you can mobilize, then you mobilize what you can and the remaining units wait until next round, or you simply add the cost of that unit(s) back into your IPC total to spend next round. Also, if you have any units that didn’t get placed and you lose your capital, those units are simply lost.

Frankly, I don’t understand why you would purchase units if you didn’t intend to mobilize them. Why not simply save the IPCs and use them next turn. That seems much simpler and more flexible to me.

Oh, I’m not saying the rules aren’t clear; I just wanted to know why they changed it. I liked the way it was in AA50 where you could hold excess units over until your next turn - that way they were never lost. However, I completely agree with you with regard to why would anyone buy more units than they could actually place. But it happens sometimes, especially in something like TripleA. It seems to me that AA50 did one way, and Global 1940 does it another way. I’m not aware that you can do either/or in Global. I’m pretty sure that you have to sell the extra units back to the bank in Global; I don’t recall an option of holding them over until next turn…

I don’t have any of the rulebooks in front of me now, but can anyone confirm whether it strictly says that you CANNOT purchase more units than you can legally place? Thanks very much.

[Krieghund]

You can’t hold units until later.  You must mobilize all that you can and sell the rest back.

The Researcher tokens were dropped purely for cost-cutting reasons.  As far as I’m concerned, you should feel free to house rule them in.

The mobilization rules were changed to close a terrible loophole.  I’m sure if you think about it long enough, you’ll figure out what it is.

[lozmoid]

You can’t hold units until later.  You must mobilize all that you can and sell the rest back.

Understood. Thanks very much, Krieg!

The Researcher tokens were dropped purely for cost-cutting reasons.  As far as I’m concerned, you should feel free to house rule them in.

And that’s fair enough, I understand WotC decision to do that. However, I’m baffled as to why they went back to the old rule as written in the rulebooks prior to AA50. Surely they could have printed the tech token rule from AA50 in the Europe/Global 1940 rulebook, and then added something along the lines of “feel free to use whatever items you wish for the tokens, coins, bits of paper etc”. Can you see what I’m saying? I feel that the Global tech rules were a step backward.

The mobilization rules were changed to close a terrible loophole.  I’m sure if you think about it long enough, you’ll figure out what it is.

Strewth! How intriguing… was it to do with Major and Minor ICs being in the game now? I’m not sure how… Anyone else?  :-)

[Gargantua]

How much does a sheet of Research Tokens cost?

$0.05? on a hundred dollar game?!?!?

[Gargantua]

Krieg! Tell us…

What other COOL stuff has WOTC cost cut?

[Krieghund]

Trade-offs are always being made.  We may have lost Researcher tokens and paper IPCs, but we’ve gained lots of cool new sculpts.  You can always make your own tokens and IPCs…

[ghr2]

@Krieghund:

You can’t hold units until later.  You must mobilize all that you can and sell the rest back.

The Researcher tokens were dropped purely for cost-cutting reasons.  As far as I’m concerned, you should feel free to house rule them in.

The mobilization rules were changed to close a terrible loophole.  I’m sure if you think about it long enough, you’ll figure out what it is.

Pretend we are all too dumb to think of it ourselves.  What loophole in particular?

[Eqqman]

@ghr2:

Pretend we are all too dumb to think of it ourselves.  What loophole in particular?

One possibility is that a country about to lose their capital makes their last buy but doesn’t place it.  Then the units sit in limbo until the capital is liberated- at which point you get replacement units on the map one turn faster than you would otherwise.  Not anything I would call a game-breaking exploit.

[elzario]

I guess you could potentially spend money on units you couldn’t place right before you know your capital is going to be taken meaning less money for the person sacking it.  I don’t think this would be significant enough to be considered the aforementioned “terrible loophole”

[variance]

Like if USA liberates London or Calcutta

[knp7765]

@elzario:

I guess you could potentially spend money on units you couldn’t place right before you know your capital is going to be taken meaning less money for the person sacking it.  I don’t think this would be significant enough to be considered the aforementioned “terrible loophole”

Yeah, I thought of that possibility. Like say Moscow is totally surrounded by German units and Russia somehow has $20 to spend but perhaps can’t really buy any infantry because thier factory is bombed to the max. So they go and buy a battleship which of course can’t be placed by a land-locked IC so it is “held in limbo” until Russia manages to get an IC by the ocean. However, in reality, next round Germany takes Moscow and the battleship in limbo is simply lost so Russia can say “Ha ha, there’s 20 IPCs you won’t get from me.”

[allweneedislove]

@Europe:

In the event that you purchased more units than you can
actually mobilize due to production limitations, you must
return the over-produced units to the box (your choice of
units), and the cost of the units is reimbursed to you.

i never noticed this rule before. it opens up an interesting overpurchase tactic.