I like what you said here. Most of the time I get to play Global we play with a big group (4-6 players… even 7 sometimes).
Typically, there is one or two players on each side who know all the rules and have played many times- we look out for the newbies- even so far as “hey, you didn’t move these units in South Africa- do you want to move them in NCM?”
Agreed on the dice- when they start rolling, no takebacks. However, anything else is fair game, within reason. Its Japan’s turn and russia forgot to move his eastern troops? no problem! You didn’t collect your money last round? Ok lets fix that.
One thing though- sometimes early in the game when a pivotal battle happens- say, an early USA/Japan fleet clash or early stack battle on the eastern front and the dice go ALL one way to the point of absurdity, then we may redo it. Sometimes its even the attacker who says ‘man that was crazy, I don’t want to win the game because of dice. lets try again?’
Or if someone forgot to move troops to Berlin with an allied landing force in range- heck man, we’ve played for 6 hours, you are doing well in Russia (and we want to see where it goes), Japan and USA are about to have an epic fleet battle, and you make the game over because Germany made a mental error because its midnight and we are all tired? We don’t have time to play a whole new game, and this one is just now getting interesting. We tell the German player to fix themself.
Understood, but man… I could never imagine a battle within our group where a player offers a redo because of bad dice. They would sympathize but never redo… LOL.
We just say things like “WOW, you must have really pissed off the dice gods”.
Well, the battle redo’s are rare- only if it meant a early end to the game.
One time Russia in an ill-advised move attacked the german stack in east poland round 3 with everything he had. It failed miserably leaving russia with minimal units. We didn’t ‘redo’ the battle, we ‘redid’ his decision.
I mean, who wants to play 4 hours, the US is finally in the game, and then someone does a gutsy attack which actually works (or doesn’t) and one side wins right there? If I was the US I would be pissed- you mean I spent 4 hours doing non-combat and buying/placing units to be done for the night?
I’ve got 2 modes,
friendly:
Everything except for the dice can be redone, or changed later
competitive:
Everything before combat phase can be redone,
Everything after combat phase can be redone,
Once dice are thrown, that is it for most things,
And forgetting to walk into an unoccupied territory can be redone (unless it is somehow effected by a decision made, like scrambling, in combat phase)
Assuming same skill level, I generally do not point out anything to my opponents (except for convoys). The only exception is forgetting stupid things like that damn Russian submarine, or Russian far east guys, etc.
NEVER reroll the dice. The dice represent your field commanders and the fog of war. The player is the commander in chief and orders movement and combat. But if your field commanders screw up then you just have to move on. On the other hand I have told my opponent many times “are you sure you want to do that” when he declares a battle that appears to be poorly thought out. I would do that rather than let a good game be ruined by a poor move. The global games are very long and one hates to see a game end by poor play and its too late to setup and restart a new game. Now I am speaking of friendly games with your buddies. If its a tournament of some kind than that is another story.
With our group, “fixing mistakes” is up for negotiation. If an Axis player forgets something vital the Allies get to decide whether to allow them to fix it out-of-sequence and vice versa. Usually, this is done verbally with a “if we make a comparable error later, you need to let us fix it too.” The opposition holds the power to decide, but there are informal “credits” given and taken. Eventually, the friendly bartering of mistake for mistake hardens into a “tough luck” stance on both sides. It’s fun to see how much the tone of the game changes once the first foot is put down. Serious business.
Interesting moral considerations re: scrambling and convoy zones in Global '40. I’m slowly steering the club towards playing it, but we’re still a little shy in the experience department.
Yrs.,
R.
Sometimes poor choices don’t ruin a game but rather enhance it, especially if the player making the error or poor choice was winning the game. I don’t get the argument that if a long game has been played, you don’t want it to end due to a bad decision. I would argue that it’s time to wrap it up, and what better way than to expose a weakness caused by sloppy play.
Our group was once into the second day of a war when the German player saw a can opener for his capital, so he built and monuvered in order to avoid it. However, the can opener still took place because the German player simply forgot the turn sequence and prepared inaccuratly. We took his capital, and ended a long game because of a fatal mistake… and to his credit, the German player never sited unfairness, he just accepted his fate, and learned from the experience.
In fact, that’s a big reason why we do what we do, because learning from mistakes that have consiquences is more effective if you’re trying to become a good Axis and Allies strategist. We don’t create environments where it’s possible to argue that different players were treated differently from game to game. Of course I’m not saying that our way is best… but it’s best for us.
Absolutely. I see the fatigue, the sometimes overwhelming complexity, the social qualities of a multi-player alliance, awful luck, great luck, dumb errors, varying levels of chivalry, the uneven-ness in play skill and confidence, etc. as integral parts of the game. Every one of those things has an analogue in messy and awful real wars and is welcome at my table.
Yrs.,
R.
Well said big R.
Good article YG, red cards sound like a good idea (mainly for Ken lol)
I believe in 2 rules.
1. Play your opponent at “thier” best. That means defer to their interests, and for the sake of the game, point out the glaring mistakes/stuff.
2. Dice are the point of NO return. You can only go back as far as the last dice roll.
Conan the Barbarian’s answer to YG’s question would have been: “Crush enemies…see them driven before you…hear the lamentations of their women.”
A more nuanced answer would be the comment I once read in a book on wargaming (written, I think, by Tony Bath). He said that, in many decades of wargaming, his experience of sportsmanship had been that true wargamers will push the rules to their limits (and that they can be very clever and inventive about it), but that they would regard actual cheating with horror.
Well if I played by you guy’s rules I’d win every time (or my alliance does) and that only pushes people away from axis and allies. I’d rather have a friendly game where they are learning so that maybe someday they won’t need any help. I successfully created a axis and allies group on the submarine and at shore duty, with some people loving it and some people that just show up for beer and to toss dice. If I had no mercy they wouldn’t have played long.
Where can I get one of these BJ Cards you’re named after?
That sounds really good. :)
They are only issued to my wife at the moment. :-D
@CWO:
Conan the Barbarian’s answer to YG’s question would have been: “Crush enemies…see them driven before you…hear the lamentations of their women.”
A more nuanced answer would be the comment I once read in a book on wargaming (written, I think, by Tony Bath). He said that, in many decades of wargaming, his experience of sportsmanship had been that true wargamers will push the rules to their limits (and that they can be very clever and inventive about it), but that they would regard actual cheating with horror.
Great Post!
The greasier the nerd the less sportsman-like I become.
My old A&A crew had one of our own who was a total D-bag he was a friend of my best friend and we didn’t get along in anything much less A&A. Yep I was a total rules lawyer with this guy. He thought he would kick our arses because he was a veteran D&D player….NOPE! Mind you, we had an A&A session EVERY Friday. ROFL He left Russia wide open and I literally took one tank and captured Moscow! He picked up the said German tank and threw it at the table as hard as the tall-skinny jack-ass could, it bounced off the table and hit the radiator in the room. The clink was so loud it sounded it was hit with a pellet gun. Now I’m not the best A&A player but I was damn sure better than him and that’s all that mattered that night.
OTOH I’ll point out mistakes and strategy to my opponent depending upon ability. Stray dice or wrong rolls for the most part will fly by and re-roll. Out and out cheating get will get you kicked out. If someone plays like an A-hole they’ll get treated like one.
Last story: OMG this one guy came over bought pizza and soda all the while talking trash for weeks about how he would school my crew on how to play A&A. Board was set up he played Russia lost Karelia G-1 and quit. Wouldn’t come back. Didn’t want to just start over. Nope he left and looked like he was going to cry.
Okay one more: Guy from my friends high school wants to play with our group. Big AD&D, Mech Warrior, Fortress America Guy. Bragged how he used world maps and Battleship pieces for A&A House rules. We set-up a game for friday. He wanted Germany so we said okay. He takes Karelia first turn and then proceedes to start moving survivors into Moscow for another attack. We’re like,“Hey wait you have to wait until your next turn!” HE’s like “WTF!, you guys don’t use house rules?” We told him there was no way in hell we play with rules like his. He got bent and stormed off. He didn’t talk to my buddies who went to his school for a while.
Had a lot of good times with A&A Classic through the first half of the 90’s.
How is Germany taking Karelia turn 1? You don’t have the 19 Inf, 2 Arm, 2 Fighter wall there?
How is Germany taking Karelia turn 1? You don’t have the 19 Inf, 2 Arm, 2 Fighter wall there?
It was Classic. These stories were all from Classic when that’s all there was. Karelia on Germany’s first turn was easy because he was stacking on Moscow and left a token force Karelia. Maybe I sound mean in my post, but these were just a few examples literally hundreds of games I played as a teen. My freinds and I played A&A Friday nights and about every other Saturday. The guy in that story did play strategy games a lot and he was quite a bit older than us but he wasn’t as experienced as a bunch of teenage guys that had nothing better to do than play A&A.
Fair enough; I knew you were talking about Classic, just saying that all Russia has to do is stack Karelia turn 1 with 19 Inf, 2 Tanks, 2 Fighters and there’s no way Germany can take it.
