I think giving Cruisers AA capabilities is a pretty good idea. Treat each cruiser like a sea-going AA gun: each defending cruiser gets up to 3 shots at attacking aircraft (or 1 per plane if less than 3) before combat starts. This way each ship has it’s own special abilities. Subs have surprise strike, Destroyers have ASW capabilities, Cruisers have AA capabilities, Battleships take 2 hits and Carriers carry planes.
We house ruled this but we keep forgetting to use it in games. I bet it will make Germany’s sinking of the Royal Navy a little different round 1. Also, the British attack of Taranto (SZ 97) might not go so well.
Not sure how I feel about this, but I do like it better then giving cruisers +1 when paired with Battleships.
I am just not convinced every unit needs a special power.
Like knp pointed out, AA cruisers would badly mess up balance of the game in the first round because there are some important potential airstrikes on sea zones with cruisers in them at setup (z110, z111, z93, z97, pearl harbor?).
YGs cruisers that attack @4 with a battleship obviously has no impact on these except maybe a J1 pearl harbour which is pretty uncommon.
If you allow cruisers to take an extra hit when paired with a destroyer, z111 would be a little tougher so maybe UK scrambles or perhaps Germany diverts 1 more attacker to z111 instead of z110. Germany less likely to airstrike z93. No impact at all on z97 Taranto raid. So a small edge toward the allies in the opening round.
So what are the cons of the paring rule?
You have to buy battleships to get the bonus.
Here’s a little update. We started a game of Global 40 last night and this time remembered to use our AA Cruiser house rule. Germany’s attack on the Royal Navy was very interesting.
Round 1 German buy: 1 CV, 1 DD, 1 SS.
SZ 111: Germany - 1 BB, 1 SS, 1 Ftr, 1 Tac, 1 Bomb. UK - 1 BB, 1 CA, 1 DD, 1 Ftr (scramble from Scotland) UK BB and Ftr survived (BB damaged), Germany retreated 1 Tac and 1 Bomb. UK Cruiser scored 1 AA hit on German Ftr.
SZ 110: Germany - 3 Ftr, 3 Tac, 1 Bomb. UK - 1 BB, 2 CA (1 French), 3 Ftr (2 UK, 1 Fre scrambled from United Kindom). UK BB and 1 Ftr survived (BB damaged), Germany retreated 1 Ftr and 1 Bomb. French Cruiser scored 1 AA hit on German Tac.
German NCM: 1 CA 1 Trn SZ 114 > SZ 112, 1 Tac SZ 111 > SZ 112, 1 Ftr SZ 110 > SZ 112. Placed CV, DD, SS in SZ 112.
Round 1 UK: Repaired BB in SZ 110. Attacked German fleet SZ 112 with 2 BB (1 damaged), 1 DD (SZ 109), 2 Ftr (1 Scotland, 1 England), 1 Bomb (England). Admittedly bad dice for Germany resulted in German fleet destroyed with UK losing 1 DD, 1 Ftr and damage to 1 BB. UK survived with 2 damaged BBs, 1 Ftr and 1 Bomb. German Cruiser AA shot missed UK planes (more bad luck).
SEALION delayed indefinitely.
Also, Japan attacked US fleet around Hawaii. US Cruiser scored 1 AA hit on Japanese Ftr. When the US attacked the Japanese in same SZ, Japanese cruiser did not score any AA hits.
I’m not familiar with this AA flack from Cruisers rule, but it sounds like a game changer. My paring rule is just meant to increase the purchasing of cruisers, even if just slightly. BTW… I think our group players buy Battleships more often than others.
I think Cruiser+Destroyer is a better buy than a Battleship.
However, a lot of the time I buy all 3 for the US in the pacific.
Here’s a little update. We started a game of Global 40 last night and this time remembered to use our AA Cruiser house rule. Germany’s attack on the Royal Navy was very interesting.
Round 1 German buy: 1 CV, 1 DD, 1 SS.
SZ 111: Germany - 1 BB, 1 SS, 1 Ftr, 1 Tac, 1 Bomb. UK - 1 BB, 1 CA, 1 DD, 1 Ftr (scramble from Scotland) UK BB and Ftr survived (BB damaged), Germany retreated 1 Tac and 1 Bomb. UK Cruiser scored 1 AA hit on German Ftr.
SZ 110: Germany - 3 Ftr, 3 Tac, 1 Bomb. UK - 1 BB, 2 CA (1 French), 3 Ftr (2 UK, 1 Fre scrambled from United Kindom). UK BB and 1 Ftr survived (BB damaged), Germany retreated 1 Ftr and 1 Bomb. French Cruiser scored 1 AA hit on German Tac.
German NCM: 1 CA 1 Trn SZ 114 > SZ 112, 1 Tac SZ 111 > SZ 112, 1 Ftr SZ 110 > SZ 112. Placed CV, DD, SS in SZ 112.Round 1 UK: Repaired BB in SZ 110. Attacked German fleet SZ 112 with 2 BB (1 damaged), 1 DD (SZ 109), 2 Ftr (1 Scotland, 1 England), 1 Bomb (England). Admittedly bad dice for Germany resulted in German fleet destroyed with UK losing 1 DD, 1 Ftr and damage to 1 BB. UK survived with 2 damaged BBs, 1 Ftr and 1 Bomb. German Cruiser AA shot missed UK planes (more bad luck).
SEALION delayed indefinitely.Also, Japan attacked US fleet around Hawaii. US Cruiser scored 1 AA hit on Japanese Ftr. When the US attacked the Japanese in same SZ, Japanese cruiser did not score any AA hits.
Wow! AA cruisers pretty powerful
…… Very Powerful.
I’m interested in trying something different with cruisers as well, perhaps to better reflect their real world usage? Love the discussion so far. WW2 production stats show both America and UK produced about 6 times as many cruisers as battleships. There must be a good reason. Historically, cruisers could range the world’s oceans whereas destroyers had far less endurance, especially in stormy conditions (N Atlantic). I don’t know how this could be reflected unless fleets had limits on out-of-port use - like destroyers must begin or end a turn in port??? But that sounds like complicating the issue too much.
I’m new to the site but have been reading it for a while.
They should only get one AA roll per combat round. That’s how we play it.
@Imperious:
They should only get one AA roll per combat round. That’s how we play it.
Oh yeah, the AA roll only happens once at the beginning of combat. After that it is like any other sea battle. They don’t roll for AA each round of combat, just the first. Sorry if I didn’t make that clear.
@Nexus:
I’m interested in trying something different with cruisers as well, perhaps to better reflect their real world usage? Â Love the discussion so far. Â WW2 production stats show both America and UK produced about 6 times as many cruisers as battleships. Â There must be a good reason. Â Historically, cruisers could range the world’s oceans whereas destroyers had far less endurance, especially in stormy conditions (N Atlantic).
Cruisers provide the perfect balance: stronger punch than a destroyer yet not as expensive as a battleship. This was especially important for Britain whose empire was so spread out. They couldn’t afford to send battleships or battle cruisers to all their far flung outposts and colonies. Yet a cruiser would make an excellent patrol ship and in most cases could still overpower any trouble-makers.
I think in America’s case, they made so many cruisers, at least in the first part of the war, to try and fill the gap created by the losses at Pearl Harbor and cruisers were cheaper and quicker to make than battleships.
Personaly, I would rather buy a S. Bomber than a cruiser.
Are you rolling it like it has an AA gun on it, or just allowing rolls of 1 to be designated to aircraft by the player who owns the cruiser?
I roll it like an AA gun. Any time one player’s aircraft attacks another player’s fleet that has a cruiser (or cruisers) in it, at the beginning of combat each cruiser can roll up to 3 dice or 1 dice per plane, whichever is lesser, and any rolls of 1 destroys a plane of the attacker’s choice. It’s a one time shot before the first round of combat. Afterward, combat proceeds normally. It’s just like aircraft attacking a territory with AA guns. The difference here is that you don’t have AA guns to “soak hits”. After that AA shot, cruisers simply become cruisers defending @ 3.
I toyed with the idea to allow this for attacking cruisers as well, like if you had a fleet that included cruisers and you attacked an opponent’s fleet with carriers or even scrambling planes. Your attacking cruisers could get a one-time shot @ 1 for AA, but that might be making them a little overpowered. In my gaming group, half of us thought this was a nifty idea but the other half did not like it. So, we kept it to defending cruisers only.
Does anyone else think if we gave cruisers this AA gun ability that it would be a good idea to include attacking cruisers? Or better to leave it just for defending cruisers?
If you are going to allow cruisers the AA gun ability, then I would suggest only on defense, since that is how all AA guns work anyway. If you allowed them on attack it would totally change the strategy of combat as I would just send my cruisers after aircraft carriers instead of waiting to be attacked. Also giving them AA ability on attack sort of defeats the scramble ability because I probally would never scramble if you got to use AA guns on attack.
Another idea has been that each cruiser would only fire an AA shot at 1 attacking plane.
Another idea has been that each cruiser would only fire an AA shot at 1 attacking plane.
This is better than 3 shots per ship IMO.
@Young:
Another idea has been that each cruiser would only fire an AA shot at 1 attacking plane.
This is better than 3 shots per ship IMO.
I disagree. I think that would make the AA capability too weak. Land-based AA guns get to fire up to 3 shots. So if we were to give cruisers AA capabilities, they should fire up to 3 shots as well. Remember, this only happens one time at the beginning of combat and they only hit on a “1”. It’s not like this would bust the game, just give defending fleets a little help. In most cases, there will only be 1 or 2 cruisers in any fleet you may attack. Granted, some players may think this is so great that they put 5 cruisers in their fleet just for AA protection, but that’s no different than someone buying a bunch of AA guns to protect their capital or some other important territory. Plus, at 12 IPCs it will cost them more and the cruisers don’t get to soak hits like land-based AA guns. If they are hit, they are finished.
