13L G40.2 Gamerman01 (Allies +9) vs. Jeff28 (Axis)

[gamerman01]

Maybe you were going to invite me to change casualties?

I would want to lose the mech since you only scored 1 hit.

[gamerman01]

And yes you were very unfortunate on the Libya attack - sorry

[gamerman01]

@Gamerman01:

Maybe you were going to invite me to change casualties?

I would want to lose the mech since you only scored 1 hit.

Well, I guess you could be following up with the Germans.
I would still lose the mech.

If you want to continue the attack on Libya in light of this, I am giving you opportunity to do that

I guess I can go ahead and do ANZ and France since I don’t see how that will affect the Libya issue.

[gamerman01]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.6

Game History

Round :9

Purchase Units - ANZAC
            ANZAC buy 1 artillery, 2 infantry and 1 transport; Remaining resources: 1 PUs;

Combat Move - ANZAC
            1 armour moved from New South Wales to 62 Sea Zone
            1 infantry moved from New South Wales to 62 Sea Zone
            1 armour, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 62 Sea Zone to 42 Sea Zone
            1 infantry moved from 42 Sea Zone to Java
            1 armour moved from 42 Sea Zone to Java
            1 submarine moved from 54 Sea Zone to 42 Sea Zone
            1 destroyer moved from 35 Sea Zone to 44 Sea Zone
            1 fighter moved from India to Malaya

Combat - ANZAC
            Battle in 42 Sea Zone
                ANZAC attack with 1 submarine and 1 transport
                Japanese defend with 1 transport
                ANZAC win with 1 submarine and 1 transport remaining. Battle score for attacker is 7
                Casualties for Japanese: 1 transport
            Battle in Java
                ANZAC attack with 1 armour and 1 infantry
                Japanese defend with 1 artillery
                ANZAC win, taking Java from Japanese with 1 armour and 1 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 4
                Casualties for Japanese: 1 artillery
            Battle in 44 Sea Zone
                ANZAC attack with 1 destroyer
                Japanese defend with 1 transport
                ANZAC win with 1 destroyer remaining. Battle score for attacker is 7
                Casualties for Japanese: 1 transport
            Battle in Malaya
                ANZAC attack with 1 fighter
                Japanese defend with 1 factory_minor, 1 harbour and 1 infantry
                Japanese win with 1 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is -10
                Casualties for ANZAC: 1 fighter

Non Combat Move - ANZAC
            1 aaGun moved from New South Wales to 62 Sea Zone
            1 infantry moved from New South Wales to 62 Sea Zone
            1 aaGun, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 62 Sea Zone to 33 Sea Zone
            1 infantry moved from 33 Sea Zone to Caroline Islands
            1 aaGun moved from 33 Sea Zone to Caroline Islands

Place Units - ANZAC
            1 transport placed in 62 Sea Zone
            1 artillery and 1 infantry placed in New South Wales
            1 infantry placed in Queensland

Turn Complete - ANZAC
            ANZAC collect 14 PUs; end with 15 PUs total
            Objective ANZAC 2 Control Strategic Islands: ANZAC met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 20 PUs

[gamerman01]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.6

Game History

Round :9

Combat Move - French
            Turning on Edit Mode
            EDIT: Removing units owned by British from Libya: 1 mech_infantry
            EDIT: Adding units owned by Americans to Libya: 1 bomber
            EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode

Non Combat Move - French

Turn Complete - French

[gamerman01]

Again, since I disagreed with your casualty choice assumption for me in Libya, you certainly have the right to continue your attack with the Italians.  Just roll it on the forum here, and if you don’t know how to do that I can help you.  Then we could edit for the results.

Or maybe you were going to hit it with the Germans and you were giving me the benefit of max defense knowing that.  Well if that’s the case you should be happy because I have less defense there now.

[Jeff28]

How would you have known you’d get those def hits? You were only supposed to get one. Of course you’d choose max def for the second round of my attack with Italy?

[gamerman01]

@Jeff28:

How would you have known you’d get those def hits? You were only supposed to get one. Of course you’d choose max def for the second round of my attack with Italy?

Damn it, Jeff

I KNOW I wouldn’t have known how my defense did when choosing my casualty.  I would have taken the mech off.  It really ticks me off that you’re trying to justify choosing my heavy bomber over my worthless mech when you presumed my casualty choice without asking me.

WHY did you presume my casualty choice?  That ain’t cool, man.  You were too eager to take off my heavy bomber.

I wouldn’t have taken my heavy bomber off precisely because then you could retreat.  I would make you continue until you could get it.  I don’t look at things the way you do (1 expected hit in defense).  I consider that I COULD have scored THREE hits on defense.

You know, I’m getting tired of your pickiness.  You picked at my ranking system, and you criticized me for changing a purchase when I was still doing my combat move.

Yet you are the one who wanted to go back SEVERAL rounds to change a significant noncom in that game with Bold, after seeing what he did with Italy?!

Finally, what the hell?  This increases your odds of wiping my remaining units on Libya because I wanted to take off the mech first.

Once again HOW DARE YOU tell me I would have taken off the heavy bomber?

This makes me mad.

[gamerman01]

@Jeff28:

Of course you’d choose max def for the second round of my attack with Italy?

Oh, I kind of overlooked this at first.

No, I would NOT necessarily choose max defense in the second round with Italy.  I probably would, though.

Point is, DO NOT ASSUME CASUALTIES FOR PEOPLE WHEN BOMBERS, ESPECIALLY HEAVY BOMBERS ARE INVOLVED and there is INFANTRY sitting there too.  There’s not that much difference in defense value.

Do you really expect a guy won’t care when you only score one hit against 3 units, one of which is infantry, and then retreat?

You lose your rights when you don’t wait for a casualty choice with a heavy bomber on the ground.  You broke the rules of the game.  The rules require that you wait for my casualty choice before rolling the defense roll.  It is unfair of you to challenge me that I wouldn’t have taken mech off first knowing the defense hit twice, because you shouldn’t have rolled it in the first place.

When I told you I would have taken off mech first when seeing you only scored one hit, I was being honest in saying that’s what I would have taken off, even not knowing my defense roll.

But you screwed all this up by PRESUMING and ROLLING when you shouldn’t have.

Like I said, damn it Jeff.  Play by the rules.

[gamerman01]

Surely you will see my point and leave my heavy bomber there.

Good gracious you can kill it with the Germans anyway.

Or shall I bring in a moderator who will most certainly tell you that you were WRONG to assume my casualty choice without waiting and that you are WRONG to refuse my change now.

[gamerman01]

I have had great patience with you.  I told you I wouldn’t bump you when you had bit off more than you could chew.  I am tired of re-orienting myself to this game every 3-5 days when you finally make a move.  And now you’re being unsportsmanlike.

I will certainly be bumping you at 72 hours each time now.  This game was decided when the Russians started pushing back.  It’s a no doubter now.

Please make the G10 or resign.

[gamerman01]

@Jeff28:

Bad play + bad dice isn’t getting it done in this one.

This was NOT classy.

So it’s because you played bad and I supposedly was much luckier than you that you are losing?

You give your opponent no credit whatsoever.

[gamerman01]

And in a game where you just admitted you’re “not getting it done” you choose to take a stand on a casualty choice that YOU made that I should have made?

Oh my goodness.  This is too much.

[gamerman01]

Bump #1

[Jeff28]

Sorry bad week for me at work. I will probably be off line until the weekend after this move.

Thanks for your patience,
–Jeff

[Jeff28]

I forgot we were having this issue, been working too much.

I don’t understand your argument. I assumed I would do the follow up attack rd 2 as I was a huge favorite so I did std max defense. Then you got the unexpected 2 def hits. So I chose to retreat. I was not intending to retreat when I chose your bomber. You want me to leave your bombers to the end of battles where you are a big underdog?

I mean it was a 99% percent battle I was doing on autopilot that got diced. You want me to give you causality choices at every little battle? This game is slow enough as it is.

I mean isn’t it unfair with knowledge of the retreat to then choose your casuality now with perfect hindsight?

If you want to go back to the point of the attack to choose your casualty and re-roll from there that is fine with me.

[gamerman01]

When bombers are on the ground, especially heavy bombers, it is not cool to hit it for one round, take off the bomber without asking, and then retreat.  How do you not understand that?

I have such a comfortable lead in this game I am thinking about letting you have your way.  I am mainly upset because of the principle of the thing.

I am online VERY regularly and waiting for a casualty choice is pretty much required in a situation like that.

It definitely felt cheap, and I’m very confident most players would adamantly agree.

[gamerman01]

The 99% odds are not really relevant.

You scored only ONE hit.  If I take off the bomber, then you have won your prize and can just retreat.

I told you I would have lost the bomber even without knowing the defense roll, but you refuse to listen to me or believe me, and that’s upsetting.  I guess you really just don’t understand the rationale.

Basically, I want to force you to keep attacking to get the bomber.

That mech is WORTHLESS to me in its position.  The difference between the bomber defense and the mech defense is tiny.  I don’t understand why it’s so hard for you to believe that I would have taken the mech off first.

And as I already said before but you apparently don’t understand -

THE ONLY REASON I’M PUT IN THIS SITUATION WHERE YOU CAN ACCUSE ME OF USING 20/20 HINDSIGHT IS BECAUSE YOU ROLLED DICE THAT YOU SHOULDN’T HAVE.  That kind of ticks me off.

[boldfresh]

@Gamerman01:

When bombers are on the ground, especially heavy bombers, it is not cool to hit it for one round, take off the bomber without asking, and then retreat.� How do you not understand that?

I have such a comfortable lead in this game I am thinking about letting you have your way.� I am mainly upset because of the principle of the thing.

I am online VERY regularly and waiting for a casualty choice is pretty much required in a situation like that.

It definitely felt cheap, and I’m very confident most players would adamantly agree.

i don’t think jeff meant anything underhanded…

however, jeff, you really must allow the other player to choose casualties unless you intend to roll the battle to completion and you are certain you are going to wipe out all units.  that is a circumstance when it is ok to just give max defense.  ALTHOUGH, i had a big blowup with a certain idiot named emperor mollari, where i gave him max defense in a huge fleet battle and when i killed his entire fleet with about 20 battleships remaining, he insisted that because i had not asked him for casualties, we had to go back to round 1 and redo the battle.  now THAT is BS.

however, to attack, choose the opponent’s casualties, then retreat before the battle is over - you most definitely open yourself up to your opponent saying they would have taken casualties differently.  in which case, as gamer suggested, you could choose to continue the battle or just allow them to switch out the casualties as desired.

[gamerman01]

Allweneedislove has a policy that he uses that if he chooses casualties for his opponent to speed up the game and his opponent doesn’t like the casualty choice, the opponent has the right to demand a re-do and re-roll.  I’m not saying that’s what we should do - my point is that players do NOT choose casualties for their opponents.  If they DO, they give them an advantage (demanding a re-roll or whatever).

Just ask a few other players if you don’t believe me.  I could make a poll and I bet you anything the vast majority of players would agree that they would NOT be happy if this was done to them.  So not cool.