Gettysburg

[ABWorsham4]

I’m reading a novel of Robert E. Lee and thought I would add a few Civil War polls.

[Witt]

Not easy choosing one of those, Worsham.
We all know how much Jackson was missed on the first day, when all went went so well. Hitting the isolated I and XI Corps was a great start for the South, but to have taken those hills would have made the position so  strong on the second day that Meade would have needed to consider another line.
I am sure there are few who do not think he the one deciding difference on most any battlefield, especially if Lee commanded.
I do wonder if Stuart had been present, or even shadowing Meade, how his three Brigades would have changed the outcome. Lee wanted to fight, but would he have chosen to avoid a battle here, instead chosen somewhere else nearer Harrisburg?
Not sure if Cavalry ever chased down a routing army in the Civil War, but would these Brigades have ensured the capture of most of the two Northern Corps?
The Southern troops got the town, but to have captured more that evening would have made the Cemetary Ridge position weaker of untenable. Could Smith’s Brigade been left on it and not brought forward to stem the rout?
Sorry, I did not mean to ask so many questions!

[barney]

I didn’t vote yet    Either Ewell or Jackson depends if the first day was a Sunday or not

Think Stuart’s absence is overrated    Lee sent in the attack on the first day(not initially) and it was probably the right decision.
Ewell not taking the high ground screwed them.

The Union were fortunate to have competent commanders on the seen early( unfortunately Reynolds got slayed)

[Witt]

Hi Barney. Having Stuart at the battle would have given Lee the flexibility to choose whether or not to stay and fight and, more importantly, would have ensured Heth did not go in with two Brigades and not his full four. The battle started badly as Heth  rushed in thinking he was facing no more than militia. Stuart’s presence would have ensured Heth was forewarned and therefore prepared. I believe the first day’s results would have been greater for the South and possibly jeopardised the Union’s chances of successfully staying on.
I agree Reynolds presence was most fortunate and the Iron Brigade fought well that day, but most mistakes were Southern ones made by Heth’s Brigadiers, compounded by good defensive terrain. Stuart’s cavalry would have prevented any such misfortune of
circumstance from occurring.

1st July was a Wednesday and I think had Jackson been there he would have put aside his religious belief and punished the enemy for forcing him to fight on a Sunday, knowing he had no choice.

[Witt]

Thanks for bringing up the size of staff all General officers used. That was another factor. It is surprising any verbal orders got through.
We have been brought up to disdain staff officers and often to laugh at their lighter workload and danger dodging, but without them no real action takes place
It is funny with his Mexican war experience lee did not try and amend this obvious oversight. Having said, that he was living in a time of heroes, where such aforementioned responsibilities were probably seen as less glamourous and dare I say, cowardly!
Despite voting Jackson, I am still seriously dwelling on Stuart and his recon abilities.Gettysburg was a meeting engagement and as such, recon and the ability to surprise or be surprised was an important factor in the battle’s final outcome.

[barney]

hello Wittman

you make a good point about Stuart  Do you think the battle would not have been fought if he was present?  Heth could only get so many men into battle at one time  You think he could have gotten more into the fight?  From a logistic standpoint

[Witt]

Thank you Barney. It really only came to me as I was answering Worsham.
Just know if Stuart had have met  Buford’s small(2500) Division with any one of his three absent,  better Brigades, the battle would have been different.
Stuart would have known Reynolds’ 6 Brigades were close behind and Howard’s 6  too.
This information would have been relayed to Lee(if not already known) and as commander he could have made his decision on the information at hand.
Heth would not have had permission to “look for shoes”.
Whatever happened would all have been down to Lee and not chance.
I think Lee would have fought: two isolated Corps were a great prize and this is why he was here.
He might have better been able to coordinate Ewell’s two Divisions and really bag all of those lead elements, so tipping the scales in his favour.

[barney]

wow! yet another excellent point    Stuart’s men would definitely make a difference  Buford would probably withdraw  hmmm I know it sounds stupid but I’ve never considered Stuart that way

what stuart did do was mostly ineffective,not like he tied up a bunch of union troops.  I still wonder  but I can find no fault with that assumption

[Witt]

I might be reading too much into it, but after the loss of Jackson, Lee would have had low moments: maybe doubted his, conviction, or lacked confidence. He needed those Generals like Stuart who had been with him since the start,so his extended absence must have put added strain on him.
I think we would have seen a better Lee at Gettysburg had he not lacked Stuart.

[barney]

maybe too much but still a valid point

commanding 70,000 men must be stressful  while having low moments  I would think conviction and confidence were still high

[ABWorsham4]

@barney:

wow! yet another excellent point    Stuart’s men would definitely make a difference   Buford would probably withdraw  hmmm I know it sounds stupid but I’ve never considered Stuart that way

what stuart did do was mostly ineffective,not like he tied up a bunch of union troops.   I still wonder  but I can find no fault with that assumption

How would Stuart have done, had he been placed in charge of Jackson’s Corp? There was discussion of such, Stuart took charge at Chancellorsville after Jackson fell and did a great job of finishing off the Yanks.

[Witt]

I know he is meant to have done a great job that day. Unfortunately, I have not read of the details. Was Stuart not given the job because he was on the spot after AP Hill’s wounding, was the only Major General in the area and Lee trusted him?
Stuart was a cavalryman, possibly the best of the war.
Lee could not have done without him in this position permanently. I think Stuart would have requested he be returned to head of the Cavalry. Lee would not have denied him.
To answer your question: he could have done it, but reluctantly and with less passion.