alot of people stack karelia, but this doesn’t give you many options on R1.
I was experimenting with dropping karelia, and stacking caucausus and moscow instead, and taking it with the counter. But this let’s germany save their finland tank.
What i came up with has worked well for 2 games
russia purchace 8 infantry
non - combat
move russia and karelia tanks to caucasus
move russia aa to caucasus
move both fighters to caucasus
move eventki infantry to russia
move yakut infantry to novosibrisk
move one sfe infantry to yakut, and sfe tank to novo
place 8 infantry on karelia
you now have 5 infantry 3 tanks 2 fighters and an aa on caucasus. Germany can hit with 5 infantry 3 tanks, 5 fighters(2 have to fly over 2 aa guns) and a bomber and a bombard probably just use 2 fighters and a bomber. This will be a serious target, and germany can kill it, but it will weaken them alot since uk keeps it’s fleet and egypt is easier to retake or doesn’t get taken. it also costs them 3 tanks and maybe a fighter. even though this kills russia’s offence if germany takes, it, germany loses offence too. germany has to hit it hard to take it, and this leaves uk free.
If they hit karelia with everything, they will have 3 infantry and 7 tanks left and uk still keeps their fleet. russia has 7 infantry 4 tanks and 2 fighters to counter it. germany loses it’s tanks
if they attack the fleet, you can send lots of infantry into persia to retake africa.
what do you think of this strat?
i’m considering moving one of the russian infantry to caucasus leaving 14 on karelia. and 6/3/2 on caucasus
this does make karelia vunerable, but makes caucasus much stronger, and the counter for karelia is stronger too. Plus if germany sends all to karelia, then they don’t kill fleet. This helps uk and usa alot not to have to rebuild fleet. If they move to caucasus, they potentially leave their fleet open as well if they don’t kill med sub with the bomber. That will weaken the attack also.
I am giving germany a shot at destroying russia’s offence at a very high price.
i will have to test it with with 14 in karelia, and 15 in karelia. to see what is better. It even worked with 16 in karelia when the guy hit caucasus, it held with a tank and 2 fighters.
tempting for the foolish player to attack russia. if they don’t attack i get a nice peria push out of it.
Inxduk, I can see your reasoning behind placing those troops where you did. It looks good on paper. But in reality, no German player in their right mind is going to attack Cauc turn 1. It just puts them into the obvious trap your intending to set up.
Most New-Mid Axis and Allies players think of all possible actions on the Karelia-EE front to be either a) Attack and take province or b) Wait.
In reality, there is a third option, as SUD explained. You hit, with a lot of tanks (or in the later game, bombers and fighters), and bring along enough infantry to keep your expensive tanks from taking casualties. The idea is you inflict more damage to your opponent than your opponent does on you.
Now, by leaving only 14 (or 15) infantry in Karelia, you leave yourself open to an attack in this way. How do you defend against it? Load Karelia up with everything ya got! Just leave 1 inf in Cauc. This way, an attack (Strafe attack as many call it) in this way is not viable.
Later in the game, the more Fighters you have in Karelia, the less viable it will be for Germany to Strafe it.
The scariest part in my eyes is the inadequate defense of your Eastern Provinces. Leaving 1 INF in SFE & Yakut is merely throwing them away, because Japan can then take both of them in a single turn w/ no little or no loss. You might as well evacuate the whole Far East & make a little shell for yourself around Russia–the Japanese will be banging on your doors there in no time anyway. Even if your plan in the West works ok, while you are counterattacking Germany in Karelia, Japan will be assaulting your home provinces & doing an end run around the Chinese.
I agree that in the event of your opening move in Karelia, Germany’s best option is to hit-and-run. A lot of these spoiling attacks will occur on both sides thereafter, but you will take the worst of it because you lost the most INF the fastest, & have the least income (even less when Japan starts to roll you up in the Far East–that is, like the end of T1 :o ).
I’d be very, very careful with this one…
That is all. Return to your posts…
Ozone27
i tried it 2 times today on the zone, the third game, someone i had been playing with did it. we had 6 on caucasus, and 14 in karelia, maybe i’ll put 15 there next time. The german player didn’t strafe it though, and i though he would. With 15 infantry you will get 5 hits, germany can hit with 7/9 which gives them 5 hits also. unless they bring in air taking away from the other attacks, they will lose equal stuff. They also may want to leave one infantry on ukraine. not to mention the computer is rigged for infantry, so i will likely get 6 hits, lol.
this does allow germany to save the finland tank, but it also gives russia a walk in finland. i do think it’s best for germany to strafe it though.
Anyway, this strat is really weird, and throws the axis off guard. As it turns out, this strat crushes japan. You mentioned i was throwing infantry away in east russia. Not really if india is open and japan wants to take china. I have a tank and 3 infantry on novo, even with a standard west russia strat it’s common to put one on yakut and one on sfe. Russia is going to lose these eastern territores anyway. As you get farther from you industry, it’s harder to attack/defend stuff. Let japan get closer to you, and it’s hard for them to attack easy for you to defend. Also i almost always take finland with russia so this makes up for loseing sfe.
What i love about this strat is the uk player can land all of it’s air in caucasus, and threaten the german fleet. I also moved the uk tranny to the coral sea, seazone northeast of australia. Japan kills it with the sub, and i countered pearl forcing japan to build a carrier. At this point japan was really weak, germany had all of africa though, but allies had a nice big fleet.
In another game, i cashed out at 32 on turn 3 with russia. I had an extra dollar, so i got 11 infantry. This allowed me to stack caucasus with 7 men, and novo with 4 men 3 tanks
japan get’s an industry for india. I move 7 infantry to persia, and 3 tanks+ 4 men to sinking.
This strat allows for an immidiate persia push which can force germany out of africa, or japan out of india. Either way, it has helped in games i’ve played.
anyway, this may not be the most efficiant move, but it certainly has advantages, and if axis doesn’t know all the counters, it will only help you. I have found that R1 dictates the game, and this R1 changes the moves the other 4 need to make. Like in chess, if someone does the sicilian defence, and you don’t know it, then you are at a huge disadvantage. sorry the post is long, thanks if you actually read it all.
i forget to mention, with finland open, usa can walk in turn one, and on usa 2 they can build a walmart!
As it turns out, this strat crushes japan. You mentioned i was throwing infantry away in east russia. Not really if india is open and japan wants to take china. I have a tank and 3 infantry on novo, even with a standard west russia strat it’s common to put one on yakut and one on sfe. Russia is going to lose these eastern territores anyway. As you get farther from you industry, it’s harder to attack/defend stuff. Let japan get closer to you, and it’s hard for them to attack easy for you to defend. Also i almost always take finland with russia so this makes up for loseing sfe.
Inxdux–I luv ya, but I’m forced to disagree…
How can you describe this strategy as “crushing” Japan when by all the moves you’ve alluded to, the Allies are rushing pell-mell away from her? If India is “open” (by that I assume you mean ‘empty’ or ‘near-empty’) then I as Japan would launch a strike out of French-IndoChina/Burma & Kwangtung Province vs. US-supported Chinese Forces in China. Leave a small covering force in F I-C/Burma . An attack out of Manchuria easily takes Yakut while an amphibious assault takes SFE. US fleet in Hawaii? There are a couple of options. I think the best in this situation is an attack by mainly airforce + the SUB. Asia is just too juicy a target to pass up–killing the CV is the main priority in Hawaii anyway. Land a few INF & all available planes on Manchuria. By the end of T1 Japan now controls China, Yakut & SFE for a total of 31 IPCs. India is indefensible. USSR may stage a counterstroke in Yakut, but unless backed up by additional forces from Russia, it is pointless–Japan will eventually win. If USSR does commit signifigant forces to Asia in Yakut, Ssinkiang or in India (thru Persia) he/she gives an opportunity to Germany to take advantage & attack from a position of strength.
Basically you’ve quickened the pace of the game by giving Japan an opportunity to grab large portions of USSR on T1, rather than T3 or later. This can only play to your disadvantage. Just simply taking Norway will not help.
Be very, very careful w/ this strategy!
Ozone27
ok, i have changed the strat again a little because of the strafing, what you do, is send an extra fighter to russia, so you have 14 on russia, and a fighter, and 6 on caucasus 3 tanks, and a fighter and aa. If germany hits caucasus hard, it will hurt russia bad, but this gives uk africa. I know it seems like this isn’t offensive against japan, at first it isn’t, but as russia retreats, they close in one their own ic, and away from the jap one. Also, every time i played this strat, i end up killing japan. This is mainly because india is dead in 2 turns, sort of like mate in 2. If you can trick japan to build an ic there, then you will win, you can move tanks and infantry to sinking, and infantry to persia. regardless, india falls, and russia can help in iraq and egypt too.
I did this strat tonight rr +1lib, after R1 he said “i wasn’t expecting that, now i can’t do my cool german opening” i ended up losing anyway, but wasn’t because of my strat. (i made mistakes, and had one really really bad battle) Japan did get bad though all infantry japan, no tanks.
He told me about his german strat for rr +1 lib, it’s really cool, i’ll post it in another thread.
I think it’s about as good as this russia move. surprises them, but isn’t the most efficant move. This strat is good if you want to kill med fleet asap though since uk fighters land in caucasus
In_k,
Don’t do it!
Three good gamers have warned you!
I’ll make it four.
If you leave 1 INF on YAK and SFE Japan can gain 4 IPCs from USSR (not to mention the likelyhood that he tried for CHI,too.) If you face 2-3 INF/1 ARM in YAK on R2 and hit it with 3 INF/1 ARM/& maybe a FTR you will lose too much to continue this for many turns.
I recommend a power block in YAK that you could use to strafe and retreat or hit a weak Japanese territory and attack back to YAK next turn (if you have anything left :) .)
In KAR you should stack 17-18 INF/3 ARM/2 FTR.
This is a force that Germany will rarely defeat on G1.
It gives you the best platform from which to attack F/N, CAUC, UKR,
or E EUR if Germany makes a mistake (or retreat to RUS if things look BAD.)
1)BUILD INF[send 1 east each turn], 2)DEFEND v GER and JAP,
3)US and UK MUST BUILD for 3-4 TURNS/ then UK&US&USSR ATTACK GERMANY 1-2-3 for 1-2 turns before USSR RETURNS to DEFENDING against JAPAN. GERMANY FALLS, then it’s JAPAN’s turn to die :evil: !
This can be the short version , but with mistakes or bad rolls the long version.
Always be willing to try something different
as long as it has NO chance of making you sick!
this is a risky strat, the whole point of it is to tempt germany to attack. I want them to attack. That way if i get lucky if pays off. I did it today, and he strafed karelia, he got 4 hits, i got 9.
I though about how few men i could leave in karelia to make germany attack it G1. That way i could counter, and kill armor (that was the general idea anyway) I know it isn’t great, and if you must win, don’t use it. I didn’t realise this when i first posted it, so thanks for all the comments. However, if you are playing a fun game, maybe rr with no bid (allies have an advantage anyway) you could pull it for fun. Plus it does block the cool german opening i posted.
About the eastern infantry, if i leave one and one, if japan decides to hit both (weakening their attack on other stuff) It doesn’t matter too much, i get finland, so losing sfe doesn’t hurt income. i can easily trade yakut for the next turn or 2 though. Once they hold yakut, i have other allied men in karelia, and i can really build up infantry to attack japan with. and usually trade eventki and kazah, and hold novo with 10 infantry and 2-3 tanks. I can send this small army after japan, if they get lots of industries and all tanks, it can usually crush them down alot. If they do the infantry push, then it’s harder.
I know you guys are probably better players than me, and would most likely beat me in a game, but why wouldn’t this work? sfe is too far from moscow to defend anyway, why even try to hold it? yakut is kind of far too. Maybe i just have no idea what i’m talking about, and need to look at some top player’s games (where can i get these?)
thanks for all the ideas, feedback etc. what do you think about the german strat!
btw, i’ll be sure to try the power block in yakut next game to see how it works. Do I land a fighter there and get an aa gun by R2?
It’s not that this strat doesn’t work, it’s just that it is not the optimum strat. It unnecessarily could open the door for the axis, and the allies don’t need to take any chances or tricks to win. Now, I can see if you want to change things up and want to try something new then by all means go ahead.
Also, besides strafing (already mentioned), your giving up ground as Russia when you don’t have to. Lets say Germany bites and takes Kar (don’t put one ftr in Kar-you’ll lose it!) and you counter and wipe him out. He’ll intern take you out and so on…You’ve just made Kar a “trading territory” when you should be trading Ukr instead. You’re giving Ger 3 extra IPC. Yes you wipe the German tanks, but your offensive units will be gone as well BUT Ger will be able to out produce you and get more inf quicker, esp if you can’t hold and place in Kar.
Whereas if you just stack Kar on rd 1, then even if ger takes Cauc, you can retake cauc, take Fin, and still take Ukr. Or possibly take EE. You can send 18 inf 3 arm and 2 ftrs into EE. Take a shot at his 7-8 tanks sitting in EE, he’ll only have 7-9 inf there protecting, and if he took cauc, that is 2 less inf in EE, and if he sent 2 to Afr there is another 2 inf gone.
It is just there are better options in rd2 if you stack and wait.
For Yakut, I think you can stack 7 inf 1 tank in Rd1, no need for a ftr or aa gun. Move 1 inf from Mos to Novo each rd to reinforce Yak and pull your tank back. Japan won’t be able to hit Yak till at least rd 3, so judge when he is going to strike, leave 1 inf, and pull everything else back before he does. Then counter if he moves in tanks and leaves them relatively undefended. Strategic retreat is key for the Russians in the
East. Again, don’t give up ground when you don’t have to, don’t pull your troops out of the East too early. If you hold Japan out East for an extra rd or 2 early on, that buys you much needed time later in the game.
Well said DM.
I second D_B_'s “Well said!”, for D_M_ !!!
Keep trying new strategies, In_k!
It keeps your opponent guessing.
