G4013L Karl7(Axis) v. Gamerman (Allies)

[gamerman01]

Nah, not messy at all - you can see clearly in the combat moves.

If something’s there illegally, and the player rolls everything, it ain’t a typo.

[Karl7]

I think I like your rule, but let me clarify for my own sake - the rule is:

If in an attack, you roll for at least one unit that has made an illegal combat move, the defending player is entitled to require you to reroll your attack rolls for (1) all your legal attacking units, or (2) for all legal attacking units of the same combat value as the illegal unit(s)?).

When I mentioned “messy” before, I was more thinking of differentiating between situations like in Nor where the illegal move had a possible benefit to another attack by allowing more total units to engage all around vs a situation say where you are making only 1 attack total but just included too many units. The later I think would be more amenable to the reduce from left rule because if you insist on a reroll you are giving them the 50% chance of doing much better less the reduction in number of dice.  Yet, differentiating between those two scenarios is probably getting too complicated and the bright line rule above will probably serve us better. (I like thinking about this stuff sadly.)

[gamerman01]

@Karl7:

I think I like your rule, but let me clarify for my own sake - the rule is:

If in an attack, you roll for at least one unit that has made an illegal combat move, the defending player is entitled to require you to reroll your attack rolls for (1) all your legal attacking units, or (2) for all legal attacking units of the same combat value as the illegal unit(s)?).

I don’t understand (2), but yes, if you make an illegal combat move I think the defending player has the right to make you re-roll all battles that could have been affected.

When I mentioned “messy” before, I was more thinking of differentiating between situations like in Nor where the illegal move had a possible benefit to another attack by allowing more total units to engage all around vs a situation say where you are making only 1 attack total but just included too many units. The later I think would be more amenable to the reduce from left rule because if you insist on a reroll you are giving them the 50% chance of doing much better less the reduction in number of dice.

Even if it is the only battle, I think the defender has a right to a re-roll, because again, you can’t prove you would have made the attack with fewer units and you are looking at dice that were rolled when you had the confidence of more units.

Yet, differentiating between those two scenarios is probably getting too complicated and the bright line rule above will probably serve us better.

I don’t yet understand the “second scenario” you’re describing

(I like thinking about this stuff sadly.)

Good!  So do I.

[gamerman01]

The defender of course should never abuse his rights, but should treat the other player the way he would want to be treated if the situation was reversed.

This is one area where we’re looking at it differently:
When dice are thrown based on an illegal move, I think those dice can be completely disregarded.  Like they never happened.  I understand the wisdom in keeping all dice thrown as much as possible, but I think illegal moves are an exception.

There ARE situations where re-rolling is appropriate.  Even whole combat phases.  Normally those situations would be as a result of illegal moves.

Well, fortunately this situation was very minor and we have come to an agreement.  But yes, going forward I think you will be well served to add this rule to your reportoire:

If a combat move is illegal, the defender has rights to re-rolls, within reason.  (Shouldn’t have to re-roll things that are completely out of range, in another place, if there is no relation at all)

[Karl7]

I don’t understand (2), but yes, if you make an illegal combat move I think the defending player has the right to make you re-roll all battles that could have been affected.

so, as in Nor for example, you could have only required me to roll the “3’s” again?  Or I suppose roll one 3 over?

[gamerman01]

No.  If a re-roll is done, it should be the whole battle.
The problem is not that you rolled an extra 3, the problem is you went into the battle thinking you had an extra 3.

[Karl7]

Got it.

[Karl7]

I have a nice tourist brochure for a tour of epl.  It’s called 100 famous burial sites for Russian soldiers.

[Karl7]

Oh I am sorry, are the Russian soldiers to scared to visit Epl?  :evil:

(FYI, consult me before choosing casualties so I can decide whether to lose the aa or not.)

[gamerman01]

I would definitely wait to hear from you on the AA decision

No, the Allied commander hasn’t studied the situation yet.

[Karl7]

Cool.  PM when the USSR decides to start killing everything in sight

[gamerman01]

R3 with 36, buy 12 INF

Combat moves -
Kar - 3 INF, 2 FTR, TAC (Nov) BMB (Rus)

Rolls: 3@1 2@3 2@4; Total Hits: 33@1: (5, 6, 6)2@3: (6, 2)2@4: (1, 3)Rolls: 4@2; Total Hits: 24@2: (1, 1, 4, 4)

[gamerman01]

Kar2Rolls: 1@1 2@3 2@4; Total Hits: 31@1: (5)2@3: (4, 1)2@4: (4, 2)Rolls: 1@2; Total Hits: 11@2: (2)

[Karl7]

For a second I thought those 3’s were tanks…  :lol:

[gamerman01]

Rus - 2 FTR, TAC (Kar)
Volo - 3 INF (Rus) MECH, ARM (Nov)
Arc - 2 AA (Nov)
Bry - 7 INF, ART (Bel) 16 INF, 2 ART, 2 AA (Nuk) INF, 2 ART (Ukr) BMB (Kar) MECH (Rus)
Vol - 2 INF (Cau)
Z125 - SS (Z109)
Yen - 17 INF, 2 AA (Yak)
Z113 - SS, CA (Z115)

Place 2 INF (Vol)
Place 10 INF (Rus)
Collect 30 +Rolling 1:
(6)

[gamerman01]

36 on hand

RematchG4013L Gamerman(Allies) v. Karl7(Axis)3bRus.AAM

[Karl7]

Hmm… to declare war or not to declare war… that is the question.

[boldfresh]

@Karl7:

Hmm… to declare war or not to declare war… that is the question.

always declare war - you are probably already too late.  :|

[Karl7]

I think you’re right Boldfresh.

WAR!

Japan

buy
mic
cv
2dd
ss

cm
inf from sia to fic – walk in

sze
inf from yun
ftr, tacb from kwa

sz41
ftr from 36 – clear out trn

inf from sak to bury – walkin

hon
4ftr, 2tacb from kwa
art from kor, inf from Japan on trn from 6
mech from hun

phi
4inf from Japan
bb from 36
2bombers from kwa
inf from pau on trn from 36
ftr, tacb from 36

bor
inf from kwa on trn

sz37
bb from 36
cv from 36
ftr, 2tacb from 36
ss from 36

mal – land 2inf from kwa

cel – land inf rom kwa

kwe – army from hop walks in

[Karl7]

cc

sz37
A
Rolls: 1@2 2@3 2@4; Total Hits: 41@2: (1)2@3: (3, 1)2@4: (5, 3)
D
Rolls: 1@2; Total Hits: 11@2: (2)