X-DAP-04 TeamBoldDutch vs. Ancients for 1945

[Gargantua]

Well Russia didn’t do what it HAD to do…

So…

[Me1945]

Don’t cover Russia with your mind,
Don’t use your norms for understanding:
It has its outstanding kind -
You must believe without fading.

[JeffM]

@Me1945:

Don’t cover Russia with your mind,
Don’t use your norms for understanding:
It has its outstanding kind -
You must believe without fading.

Hell yeah Me1945, well said!

[boldfresh]

@alexgreat:

So Bold, I guess you can go forward with Germany if you accept a possible build / movement edit later tonight for ANZAC. Since there was no combat, and since builds hardly affect Germany (except your bomber), that would be acceptable? Otherwise pls wait for review by any team member.

guys, we agreed to a build/movement edit later tonight for ANZAC.  dutch posted bomber to midway about 12 hours later.  that is no longer later tonight is it?

so thus, i really have to ask myself, did the german bomber to midway have anything to do with your purchase change, which occurred an additional 15 hours after dutch posted the bomber move?  hmmmmm….  garg, you are the supreme commander, what do you think?

[boldfresh]

also, we are more than willing to hear an explanation from the ancients as to why this purchase change occurred more than 24 hours after the original move?

cheers

[Trajan01]

also, we are more than willing to hear an explanation from the ancients as to why this purchase change occurred more than 24 hours after the original move?

Because all 3 of us are gainfully employed.
We recognize that you don’t seem to have such constraints. That’s unfortunate, I feel sorry for you.

@Boldfresh:

@alexgreat:

So Bold, I guess you can go forward with Germany if you accept a possible build / movement edit later tonight for ANZAC. Since there was no combat, and since builds hardly affect Germany (except your bomber), that would be acceptable? Otherwise pls wait for review by any team member.

sounds very fair and reasonable to me, as long as if you change anzac, you will allow a possible reposition of the german bomber.  now we are cookin’ with grease!

I didn’t see Dutch’s post - hence why I didn’t move the Bomber to Mid in my map. We had suggested yesterday that you move ahead with Germany before we finalize Anzac in order to keep things moving. We’re aware that our schedules and desire to discuss moves makes us a bit slower than you guys. It was a good point that you might want to reposition the Bomber. But, there we gain no edge by seeing your Bomber in Midway - we were surely aware it could reach.

I agree, we definitely did say “tonight”. However, you said “as long as if you change anzac…”

But switch our buy back if you like, I literally do not give a fuck. But if you guys are half the players you think you are, 1 little Anzac transport in z62 probably doesn’t affect your grand and brilliant plan.

[dutchmand]

I am out and have not seen the map, but I know with 100% certainty what the change is. Sorry, I’m as flexible on rules and errors as anyone that plays on here. But I am not going to allow this one.  The only reason for the change was the movement of the German bomber.

It should not have taken several days to determine an Anzac purchase. The Anzac should already know what they are doing when the US moves, which we waited 2 days for, and then we wait a day for the Anzac, and then Anzac still doesn’t know what it is buying. Even half a day after their turn? No way. It shouldn’t take more than 10 minutes to spend their small was.

Sorry guys. I appreciate the accelerated pace, but no way.

[Me1945]

Please wait with Japan. I need to get in touch with my teammates. Will post a notice as soon as I can.

[boldfresh]

There is no possible way we can lose this game.  The crazy thing about this to me is that you should have your anzac move planned along with your usa move.  It is strange that you would want to change the purchase so many hours after the initial post, which was already so many hours after the usa post, which is when the anzac buy should largely be determined.  The only thing that changed in the pacific between the usa move and the russian move was the location of the german bomber which signalled with big red flashing lights that we were moving the fleet to midway.

As to employment, if that was meant to be a dig, it was’t.  Alex posted anzac in the afternoon US time so me had all afternoon and evening to look at the move - does he work all afternoon and evening?  If so Iit is I who should feel sorry for him not the other way around.  I plan my moves in between my moves, apparently you guys do it differently.

Anyway the anzac purchase again should be locked in before the usa moves.  We waited plenty of time to post the german bomber movement.  I dont see a valid reason for the purchase to change so much later when the only change in the pacific is the location of the german bomber.  Have any of you actually ever seen a german bomber on midway?  My bet is no.  So while you may have realized it was possible, you clearly didnt think it was going there.

[boldfresh]

i will say this - i do think a transport is a much better purchase especially when you realize the japanese fleet is going to midway.  :|

[Gargantua]

Officially… per my rules and per common tournament law… once dice are rolled, the game moves are locked in.

If that means no transport for ANZAC so be it…  If that also means no german bomber in Midway.  So be it again.

That is my official ruling.

Of course, Gentlemans agreements are of their own accord.  But if my hand is force you know how I will rule.  And usually once I have to rule, no more gentlemans agreements apply.

I leave you to sort it out!

[boldfresh]

@Gargantua:

Officially… per my rules and per common tournament law… once dice are rolled, the game moves are locked in.

If that means no transport for ANZAC so be it…  If that also means no german bomber in Midway.  So be it again.

That is my official ruling.

Of course, Gentlemans agreements are of their own accord.  But if my hand is force you know how I will rule.  And usually once I have to rule, no more gentlemans agreements apply.

I leave you to sort it out!

it’s a bit tricky going by the dice rolled criteria.  ancients gave us the go-ahead to proceed with germany after they posted franzac and the germans rolled dice.  this was with the caveat that they would have the rest of the evening to change anzac, where no dice were rolled.  after germany posted, we waited 12 hours, giving me the entire afternoon, evening, and night to look at the move.  another 16 or so hours after germany noncommed the bomber to midway, trajan made the russian move and he changed the anzac purchase to include a transport before proceeding with the russian move/dice.

[boldfresh]

@Boldfresh:

@Gargantua:

Officially… per my rules and per common tournament law… once dice are rolled, the game moves are locked in.

If that means no transport for ANZAC so be it…  If that also means no german bomber in Midway.  So be it again.

That is my official ruling.

Of course, Gentlemans agreements are of their own accord.  But if my hand is force you know how I will rule.  And usually once I have to rule, no more gentlemans agreements apply.

I leave you to sort it out!

it’s a bit tricky going by the dice rolled criteria.  ancients gave us the go-ahead to proceed with germany after they posted franzac and the germans rolled dice.  this was with the caveat that they would have the rest of the evening to change anzac, where no dice were rolled.  after germany posted, we waited 12 hours, giving me Me1945 the entire afternoon, evening, and night to look at the move.  another 16 or so hours after germany noncommed the bomber to midway, trajan made the russian move and he changed the anzac purchase to include a transport before proceeding with the russian move/dice.

[boldfresh]

bottom line:  german bomber and japanese fleet to midway would
have hastened the Ancients’ demise.  we would all like to see a
satisfactory conclusion sooner rather than later, and this would
have been a nifty little move that would have put them on their
heels in the pacific.  and they already have one foot in the grave
and the other on a banana peel so….  :-P

[Me1945]

No ANZAC problem. I took time-out to confirm some Rus moves.
Map is attached.

[dutchmand]

@Gargantua:

Officially… per my rules and per common tournament law… once dice are rolled, the game moves are locked in.

Just for clarity, the German bomber was posted before any dice were rolled.

[lexgreat]

“So Bold, I guess you can go forward with Germany if you accept a possible build / movement edit later tonight for ANZAC. Since there was no combat, and since builds hardly affect Germany (except your bomber), that would be acceptable? Otherwise pls wait for review by any team member.”

Just for clarity, above is my message after I posted ANZAC. I explicitly asked Bold to accept build changes even after Germany, or else wait with Germany. Bold did not wait, so that means any change for ANZAC will be accepted.

Now I can hear you screaming that I wrote “later tonight”, but that is, at best, a time issue, nothing which you can use as a qualitative argument. Of course we know from early on that you dont like our speed, but in this case you should have waited with Germany, exactly as I have asked you to do.

If you feel that our speed is unacceptable, you should have brought up your complaints with the tournament director long ago (maybe you did, anyway) and demand a decision, because that is the only place from where I accept any judgement. We are not on 24h stand by for you, and again, only Garg has the power to demand a time limit that is more convenient for you.
“It should no have taken” and so on, Dutch, thats your opinion, and even if this is the majority opinion, its not binding. I know its a pity that we dont live up to your standard, but either have Garg come up with a reprimand, or simply wait another day.

You, Bold, continue to state the game is won and there is no chance on earth for a different ending. You probably also dont think anyone can come to a different conclusion, and thats really perfectly ok. Should you not be able to rest more easily, then?

[boldfresh]

I rest exceedingly easily.  Its just that the game is taking waaaaaaay too long and is inconveniencing others.  We have waited >24 hrs for a decision on a scramble of a couple russian fighters…  I dont even bomb if you have a single ftr in a territory anymore.  Its ridiculous.  And now you need this much time for a simple anzac move?  We are out of time.  Its like your ate down 10-1 in the penalty makeup time of a football game and you are passing the ball around the field near YOUR OWN GOAL!  You need to be making big things happen if you want ANY chance yet you continue to take big chunks of time on simple moves and make no significant attacks.  Come on guys this is not fair to the others playing in this tourney esp at this point.  Congrats on making it this far but I think its time to give up.

[boldfresh]

You call it a time issue, at best.  Exactly it is a time issue.  Given that we are in overtime and you were doing a simple anzac move, how much time do you feel was needed?  You had a total of over 24 hrs for anzac after italy posted and until dutch posted to german bomber position.  Trust me that is a generous amount of time considering the circumstances and certainly complied with your “tonight” qualifier.

[dutchmand]

Alex, it does not ever, and I mean EVER, take 3 days to decide how to spend Anzac’s 16 IPCs.  It takes 10 minutes.

Like I said, I knew what the change was without looking at the map, that shows a clear prejudice directly driven by the movement of the German bomber.  I reject any argument that your team anticipated a move to Midway by the Japanese fleet.  If you had, the Anzac would have built a transport or two to begin with.  It would have been your decision from the time you were planning the US move.  It is clear by the US move and build that your team did not anticipate an Japenese fleet move to Midway.  I understand that we can have an honest disagreement about whether enough time had lapsed for the Anzac to complete their “build” before the German bomber moved, but it becomes a dishonest discussion when your team says that you anticipated a move to Midway.  You all know that was not discussed and planned for amongst your team, so please let’s keep that part of the discussion clear: The reason Anzac wants to change its build is because it got the benefit of seeing where the Japanese intend to place their fleet.  Bottom line.