http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contestado_War
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription_Crisis_of_1917
We need yet another set of pieces simulating this war. Add them to the turn order…
My preferred scheme updated to include all the extras.
France - Blue
Britain - Brown(khaki)
USA - Green
Russia - Light Grey
Italy - Light Green
Turkey - Light Tan
Austria - White
Germany - Field Grey
Brazilian Army- Black
Mexico- red ( salsa color actually)
Indians- whiskey color
Canadians- lime green or red
Communists - Red
Nationalists - Black
Japan - Dark Blue
China - Yellow
Neutrals - Orange
Rebels- Polka dot
US border army- another shade of green
Cartwright’s- cream ( in honor of Hoss)
Protestors- yellow
That is purposely taking my points and distorting them. When did I say that anything should happen at at anytime at all? I realize USSR and other countries in global have restrictions. That is not the same as scheduling the exact specific turn that an even can happen that cannot happen any other turn regardless of game conditions, which is what saying “Revolution happens turn X” is.
A provocation system is a cumulative process. It isn’t just a random start to hostilities. They can’t just start “any time.”
NOWHERE did I say that there should be no fixed rules at all. What I DID say was that having an even such as the Russian Revolution especially automatically happen at turn X is a bad idea.
It is asinine to assert that I was calling for an “anything goes” game.
Do you not realize that your own idea is a variable turn condition for the Russian Revolution? What turn does it happen? Well, possibly turn X. But possibly not. It could be a different turn. Look at that! A variable event! Now I am 99% sure you are just trolling instead of 98%.
You make it sound like the cumulative process like my provocation system could happen in the very early turns. Had you read my post for what it said instead of what you wanted it to say so you could attack things that weren’t there, you would see that these points would need to add up to a certain total, and would take many turns to happen unless, of course, Russia just moved all its units to the farthest east corner of the map and let the cp just waltz in.
This is an example of a variable turn effect:
"Special Events:
Russian Revolution:
Russian Revolution � Can begin on turn 10.  At the beginning of turn 10 a roll is made to see if Russia goes into a civil war.  On a D6 roll of 1 the country spirals into revolution.  This roll is modified as follows:
-2 to the roll if an allied capital is held by the Central Powers (-1 if contested)
-2 to the roll if Petrograd is held by the Central Powers (-1 if contested)
-1 to the roll if Moscow is held by the Central Powers (-1/2 if contested)
-1/2 to roll (rounded down) per additional Russian or controlled allied territory that is held (-0 if contested)
+1/2 (rounded down) to the roll per enemy territory held by the Russians or its controlled allies (+0 if contested)
+2 to roll if an enemy capital is held by the Allies (+1 if contested)
The roll is made each and every turn afterwards.  If Russia goes into a revolution she will surrender and all her remaining forces (within Russia) are removed from the game.  All other units outside of Russia, including any controlled territories, are considered to belong to the Russian-controlled Allies.  Furthermore, Serbia, Romania, and Montenegro will remain controlled by the Russian player.  However, Serbia will continue to follow the special rules for the �fall of Serbia.�
Effect: Germany gains economic and total control of Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Belorussia, Kiev, Ukraine and Crimea. German units in any other Russian areas must retreat and the German player gains no benefit from other Russian areas. All Russian units are removed from play."
By the way, what happens with the German naval mutiny if they have sunk every british ship and have the seas completely dominated, and are close to winning the war? How does a mutiny in such a scenario make sense?
Here is what I posted before, in greater detail.
Provocation Point System:
Russian Example:
Russian Revolution Occurs if at the start of any russian turn the Provocation Point Total is equal to or greater than 100 (for example)
Add 2 each time a CP conquers an Originally russian Territory (can be multiple times for one territory)
Add 1 each time a CP conquers a CP territory that was under Russian control at the time of its capture (Can be multiple times for one territory
Add 5 for each originally Russian IC that is captured by a CP. (Only once per IC)
Add 10 EACH TIME an originally Russian city is captured by a CP.
Add 3 each time russia attacks a territory with a land unit but does NOT capture that territory from that attack.
SUBTRACT 1 each time Russia captures an Originally CP territory
SUBTRACT 2 each time Russia captures an originally Russian territory that was under CP control.
There are finer points and things that need to be clarified of course but that’s the gist.
As you can see (EDIT: As you can see if you are not going out of your way to misinterpret and intentionally misread and unjustifiably attack), such an event would be VERY unlikely to happen remotely early in the game.
That is purposely taking my points and distorting them. When did I say that anything should happen at at any time? I realize USSR and other countries in global have restrictions. That is not the same as scheduling the exact specific turn that an even can happen that cannot happen any other turn regardless of game conditions, which is what saying “Revolution happens turn X” is.
The “discussion” ( air quotes) is how you think Global 40 allows for variable entry of the two neutrals ( USSR and USA) and how you keep using the same examples of Japan attacking UK and USA, or UK attacking Japan, or Russia attacking Japan. The game does not provide rules for allowing USSR and USA total freedom of choice to attack anybody. If it did the game would be busted.
IN the Great War example, we set the fixed date where you can start rolling for collapse. If the game didn’t have that, it also would be busted.
I have no idea why this is complicated. It has a fixed minimum threshold where you start rolling and the modifiers are dependent on control by central powers of specific areas. If the Russian player does really well, they still need this fixed rule for entry.
A provocation system is a cumulative process. It isn’t just a random start to hostilities. They can’t just start “any time.”
NOWHERE did I say that there should be no fixed rules at all. What I DID say was that having an even such as the Russian Revolution especially automatically happen at turn X is a bad idea.
It is asinine to assert that I was calling for an “anything goes” game.
Do you not realize that your own idea is a variable turn condition for the Russian Revolution? What turn does it happen? Well, possibly turn X. But possibly not. It could be a different turn. Look at that! A variable event! Now I am 99% sure you are just trolling instead of 98%.
It does not happen BEFORE TURN X. That is why i say the turn is fixed.
You make it sound like the cumulative process like my provocation system could happen in the very early turns. Had you read my post for what it said instead of what you wanted it to say so you could attack things that weren’t there, you would see that these points would need to add up to a certain total, and would take many turns to happen unless, of course, Russia just moved all its units to the farthest east corner of the map and let the cp just waltz in.
I am not arguing against your ideas, you are arguing against mine. Get it straight. I didn’t first quote you, you quoted me.
By the way, what happens with the German naval mutiny if they have sunk every british ship and have the seas completely dominated, and are close to winning the war? How does a mutiny in such a scenario make sense?
The game would be over already ( CP victory) if that happened. And the Germans would still be exhausted in terms of manpower and supplying food and supplies for four years of fighting.
If they did this in say 1916 and game still continued, on the fixed event for Mutiny, Germany would still be exhausted. Only an early victory cuts out the event, if the game lasts till 1918, they get naval mutiny.
Provocation Point System:
Russian Example:
Russian Revolution Occurs if at the start of any russian turn the Provocation Point Total is equal to or greater than 100 (for example)
Add 2 each time a CP conquers an Originally russian Territory (can be multiple times for one territory)
Add 1 each time a CP conquers a CP territory that was under Russian control at the time of its capture (Can be multiple times for one territory
Add 5 for each originally Russian IC that is captured by a CP. (Only once per IC)
Add 10 EACH TIME an originally Russian city is captured by a CP.
Add 3 each time russia attacks a territory with a land unit but does NOT capture that territory from that attack.
SUBTRACT 1 each time Russia captures an Originally CP territory
SUBTRACT 2 each time Russia captures an originally Russian territory that was under CP control.
This point system means you got to count things from the start and keep track, the games system only allows the roll on turn 10 when you begin to count to get modifiers. This makes our system more easy and KISS, which is what AA is in terms of design. Point system will also allow possible early entry before turn 10 if you get that 100.
@Imperious:
The “discussion” ( air quotes) is how you think Global 40 allows for variable entry of the two neutrals ( USSR and USA) and how you keep using the same examples of Japan attacking UK and USA, or UK attacking Japan, or Russia attacking Japan. The game does not provide rules for allowing USSR and USA total freedom of choice to attack anybody. If it did the game would be busted.
WHERE did I say that USA and USSR had, have, or should have the ability to attack at any time in ANY version, 1940 or WWI? Where did I say that (other than in your mind)? Please stick to writing your own posts and stop writing mine in your own head and then responding to those fantasy posts.
By the way, what turn does USA enter the war in Global 1940? What turn does Russia enter the war? You mean it’s not the same turn every game. You mean it VARIES? But it’s still not variable entry eh?
Take a step back. Or four. If you had read my posts you would have seen that when I was talking about the provocation points, I was referring to their potential in a WWI game. Nowhere did I say that anyone should be able to declare war at anytime.
The simple FACT of the matter is that Global is a game where big events, such as beginnings of hostilities between powers, happen in DIFFERENT turns each game. And is that automatically “busted”?
@Imperious:
IN the Great War example, we set the fixed date where you can start rolling for collapse. If the game didn’t have that, it also would be busted.
Prove it. Seriously, you say that, but where is any evidence? Why is a system that requires multiple turns of cumulative events automatically “busted”?
@Imperious:
I have no idea why this is complicated. It has a fixed minimum threshold where you start rolling and the modifiers are dependent on control by central powers of specific areas. If the Russian player does really well, they still need this fixed rule for entry.
That is not fixed like you were suggesting earlier. That is variable. What turn does the revolution happen? It depends. Therefore variable. I have no idea why this is so complicated.
@Imperious:
It does not happen BEFORE TURN X. That is why i say the turn is fixed.
You must be a politician since you backtrack like that:
@Imperious:
Britain joins after an attack on any neutral (only the CPs can ever attack neutrals!)
USA really needs a chart to track its attitude to war; its entry certainly shouldn’t be automatic after X turns.
The game would be ruined since the Central powers would avoid UK the entire game, A variable entry USA is also a game breaker. It must be fixed because the games balancing would prove impossible. The game must be Historical, not full of nitpicking rules that destroy play balance.
It’s pretty clear from that post that you were suggesting that USA entering automatically after X turns is a good idea. It’s fascinating how you show your system (which allows for variable entry) only AFTER I post my point about how a russian revolution would be insane if it happened on turn X no matter what since Germany would only need to hold the line for long enough for it to happen.
@Imperious:
I am not arguing against your ideas, you are arguing against mine. Get it straight. I didn’t first quote you, you quoted me.
So the fact that I first disagreed with your fixed entry means that you never actually made posts like this that argued against my point?
“Like Global 40, you can’t have variable entry”
The point is that you actually do agree that the revolution is important to not have happen automatically on turn X, you just can’t be an adult (man or woman, I’ve never met you) who can admit it.
@Imperious:
By the way, what happens with the German naval mutiny if they have sunk every british ship and have the seas completely dominated, and are close to winning the war? How does a mutiny in such a scenario make sense?
The game would be over already ( CP victory) if that happened. And the Germans would still be exhausted in terms of manpower and supplying food and supplies for four years of fighting.
If they did this in say 1916 and game still continued, on the fixed event for Mutiny, Germany would still be exhausted. Only an early victory cuts out the event, if the game lasts till 1918, they get naval mutiny.
Wait, the game is over already when in my scenario listed I clearly state that they are close to winning the war? No wonder you argue against things I don’t say, it’s now 100% clear that you don’t actually read the posts you respond to!
The British fought for four years. Why was ther not a major mutiny of their sailors. Were they not exhausted in terms of manpower and supplying food and supplies?
@Imperious:
Provocation Point System:
Russian Example:
Russian Revolution Occurs if at the start of any russian turn the Provocation Point Total is equal to or greater than 100 (for example)
Add 2 each time a CP conquers an Originally russian Territory (can be multiple times for one territory)
Add 1 each time a CP conquers a CP territory that was under Russian control at the time of its capture (Can be multiple times for one territory
Add 5 for each originally Russian IC that is captured by a CP. (Only once per IC)
Add 10 EACH TIME an originally Russian city is captured by a CP.
Add 3 each time russia attacks a territory with a land unit but does NOT capture that territory from that attack.
SUBTRACT 1 each time Russia captures an Originally CP territory
SUBTRACT 2 each time Russia captures an originally Russian territory that was under CP control.This point system means you got to count things from the start and keep track, the games system only allows the roll on turn 10 when you begin to count to get modifiers. This makes our system more easy and KISS, which is what AA is in terms of design. Point system will also allow possible early entry before turn 10 if you get that 100.
So? So what if it happens before turn 10? Why is turn 10 NECESSARY for it to be able to start to happen? Because it fits your timeline? Because that is automatally doom to the balance of the game if it happens before??
So now your argument is that your version is simpler. What does that have to do with balance anymore?<waits patiently=“” for=“” a=“” futile=“” attempt=“” at=“” showing=“” my=“” idea’s=“” imbalance=“” using=“” arguments=“” based=“” on=“” half-reading=“” posts=“” and=“” intentionally=“” being=“” unfair=“”></waits>
WHERE did I say that USA and USSR had, have, or should have the ability to attack at any time in ANY version, 1940 or WWI? Where did I say that (other than in your mind)? Please stick to writing your own posts and stop writing mine in your own head and then responding to those fantasy posts.
What you did say is Global 40 has variable entry, but it does not.
By the way, what turn does USA enter the war in Global 1940? What turn does Russia enter the war? You mean it’s not the same turn every game. You mean it VARIES? But it’s still not variable entry eh?
It is FIXED UNLESS THE AXIS start it early. Those allies don’t have the opportunity to start early. One side determines their fate, not both. It is not complicated.
Take a step back. Or four. If you had read my posts you would have seen that when I was talking about the provocation points, I was referring to their potential in a WWI game. Nowhere did I say that anyone should be able to declare war at anytime.
You advocate a point system were early entry is possible, and i advocate a fixed turn where collapse is only possible STARTING ON THAT TURN. I try to explain this but you don’t get it.
The simple FACT of the matter is that Global is a game where big events, such as beginnings of hostilities between powers, happen in DIFFERENT turns each game. And is that automatically “busted”?
NO BECAUSE IT DOES NOT ALLOW THOSE ALLIES TO ATTACK GERMANY EARLY. The only way for that to happen is if Germany feels it is advantageous to attack them early. Both sides do not have a choice.
Quote from: Imperious Leader on Today at 06:22:43 pm
IN the Great War example, we set the fixed date where you can start rolling for collapse. If the game didn’t have that, it also would be busted.Prove it. Seriously, you say that, but where is any evidence? Why is a system that requires multiple turns of cumulative events automatically “busted”?
You would need to be at the table during playtesting and that has already occurred. When you buy the game you can do whatever you want.
Quote from: Imperious Leader on Today at 06:22:43 pm
I have no idea why this is complicated. It has a fixed minimum threshold where you start rolling and the modifiers are dependent on control by central powers of specific areas. If the Russian player does really well, they still need this fixed rule for entry.That is not fixed like you were suggesting earlier. That is variable. What turn does the revolution happen? It depends. Therefore variable. I have no idea why this is so complicated.
SIGH–- it does not begin before turn 10. You cant even roll before that turn. Jesus.
Quote from: Imperious Leader on Today at 06:22:43 pm
It does not happen BEFORE TURN X. That is why i say the turn is fixed.
You must be a politician since you backtrack like that:
Quote from: Imperious Leader on December 11, 2012, 05:06:16 pm
Quote
Britain joins after an attack on any neutral (only the CPs can ever attack neutrals!)
USA really needs a chart to track its attitude to war; its entry certainly shouldn’t be automatic after X turns.
The game would be ruined since the Central powers would avoid UK the entire game, A variable entry USA is also a game breaker. It must be fixed because the games balancing would prove impossible. The game must be Historical, not full of nitpicking rules that destroy play balance.
In that post it’s pretty clear from that post that you were suggesting that USA entering after X turns is a good idea. It’s fascinating how you show your system (which allows for variable entry) only AFTER I post my point about how a russian revolution would be insane if it happened on turn X no matter what since Germany would only need to hold the line for long enough for it to happen.
Quote from: Imperious Leader on Today at 06:22:43 pm
I am not arguing against your ideas, you are arguing against mine. Get it straight. I didn’t first quote you, you quoted me.So the fact that I first disagreed with your fixed entry means that you never actually made posts like this that argued against my point?
“Like Global 40, you can’t have variable entry”
The point is that you actually do agree that the revolution is important to not have happen automatically on turn X, you just can’t be an adult (man or woman, I’ve never met you) who can admit it.
Your point is a entry at any time. Mine is that it can only start on a fixed turn in order to keep balance. Your “rebuttal” is that Global has variable turn entry, mine is that is not the case: USSR and USA cannot attack Axis Europe before their turns on their own accord. You seem to skip that every-time. I find it hilarious!
Wait, the game is over already when in my scenario listed I clearly state that they are close to winning the war? No wonder you argue against things I don’t say, it’s now 100% clear that you don’t actually read the posts you respond to!
The British fought for four years. Why was ther not a major mutiny of their sailors. Were they not exhausted in terms of manpower and supplying food and supplies?
Germany mostly alone fought against all the allies. UK on the other hand had capable allies. France was close to manpower collapse, Russia was getting there.
@Imperious:
WHERE did I say that USA and USSR had, have, or should have the ability to attack at any time in ANY version, 1940 or WWI? Where did I say that (other than in your mind)? Please stick to writing your own posts and stop writing mine in your own head and then responding to those fantasy posts.
What you did say is Global 40 has variable entry, but it does not.
Really? What turn does USA go to war against the axis?  What turn does Japan go to war against UK? What turn does Germany go to war against  Russia?
@Imperious:
Wait, the game is over already when in my scenario listed I clearly state that they are close to winning the war? No wonder you argue against things I don’t say, it’s now 100% clear that you don’t actually read the posts you respond to!
The British fought for four years. Why was ther not a major mutiny of their sailors. Were they not exhausted in terms of manpower and supplying food and supplies?
Germany mostly alone fought against all the allies. UK on the other hand had capable allies. France was close to manpower collapse, Russia was getting there.
The point was that the reasons you gave for Germany to have mutiny are difficulites many other nations faced. Why are they not facing the same potential for mutiny?
“And the Germans would still be exhausted in terms of manpower and supplying food and supplies for four years of fighting.”
Where then are the mechanics for other mutinies for other countries?
So? So what if it happens before turn 10? Why is turn 10 NECESSARY for it to be able to start to happen? Because it fits your timeline? Because that is automatically doom to the balance of the game if it happens before??
Because Historically that’s when it happens in game turns. Secondly, to allow it to happen on say turn 6 would make the game too easy for central powers to win. The setup and economics are based on balance of many factors including a player possibly leaving the game early would prove impossible. At least the playtest when this was considered didn’t make it balanced.
Just do whatever you want when you buy the game, i really don’t give a damm.
So now your argument is that your version is simpler. What does that have to do with balance anymore?<waits patiently=“” for=“” a=“” futile=“” attempt=“” at=“” showing=“” my=“” idea’s=“” imbalance=“” using=“” arguments=“” based=“” on=“” half-reading=“” posts=“” and=“” intentionally=“” being=“” unfair=“”></waits>
it is:
use your point system, count all the dead units, deduct, take TT’s back and forth, deduct, etc whatever your hearts content my friend.
Really? What turn does USA go to war against the axis? � What turn does Japan go to war against UK? What turn does Germany go to war against � Russia?
USA cant attack Germany before turn 4
Russia cant attack Germany before turn 3
They are the only nations that are totally neutral, so they are restricted unless the AXIS attack early, but it does not go both ways. They are restricted.
Thats my final answer.
The point was that the reasons you gave for Germany to have mutiny are difficulites many other nations faced. Why are they not facing the same potential for mutiny?
Because they didn’t have a similar mutiny to the extent of which Germany faced this. The allies were basically fighting like a group, against Germany. Ottomans and Austro-Hungary were weak empires and could barley hold their own. It was Germany who faced everything.
“And the Germans would still be exhausted in terms of manpower and supplying food and supplies for four years of fighting.”
Where then are the mechanics for other mutinies for other countries?
Go add them. Add anything you want make your own game spend your own money. Enjoy life. Stop arguing about nonsense.
You may need a rabies shot soon. I find these posts amusing actually. Thanks for the fun!
@Imperious:
It is FIXED UNLESS THE AXIS start it early. Those allies don’t have the opportunity to start early. One side determines their fate, not both. It is not complicated.
Do you realize you used the world “unless?” If something is X unless Y, and Y happens (which it does almost every game), then it is not X!
@Imperious:
Take a step back. Or four. If you had read my posts you would have seen that when I was talking about the provocation points, I was referring to their potential in a WWI game. Nowhere did I say that anyone should be able to declare war at anytime.
You advocate a point system were early entry is possible, and i advocate a fixed turn where collapse is only possible STARTING ON THAT TURN. Â I try to explain this but you don’t get it.
Not fixed. That’s variable. It doesn’t happen on the same turn every game. It’s variable. I try to explain that but you don’t get it. Get a dictionary and save yourself this foolishness.
@Imperious:
The simple FACT of the matter is that Global is a game where big events, such as beginnings of hostilities between powers, happen in DIFFERENT turns each game. And is that automatically “busted”?
NO BECAUSE IT DOES NOT ALLOW THOSE ALLIES TO ATTACK GERMANY EARLY. Â The only way for that to happen is if Germany feels it is advantageous to attack them early. Both sides do not have a choice.
Ah. So how exactly did you get appointed the grand master of what counts as early for this WWI game? Why does a provocation point system automatically allow for something to happen too “early?” You act like my system means the revolution could happen turn 1.
@Imperious:
Quote from: Imperious Leader on Today at 06:22:43 pm
IN the Great War example, we set the fixed date where you can start rolling for collapse. If the game didn’t have that, it also would be busted.Prove it. Seriously, you say that, but where is any evidence? Why is a system that requires multiple turns of cumulative events automatically “busted”?
You would need to be at the table during playtesting and that has already occurred. When you buy the game you can do whatever you want.
Thanks for not answering the question at all :roll:. You claim that the system would need to have a fixed date and it would be busted otherwise, but supply no proof. Â :roll:
@Imperious:
Quote from: Imperious Leader on Today at 06:22:43 pm
I have no idea why this is complicated. It has a fixed minimum threshold where you start rolling and the modifiers are dependent on control by central powers of specific areas. If the Russian player does really well, they still need this fixed rule for entry.That is not fixed like you were suggesting earlier. That is variable. What turn does the revolution happen? It depends. Therefore variable. I have no idea why this is so complicated.
@Imperious:
SIGH–- it does not begin before turn 10. You cant even roll before that turn. Jesus.
But it doesn’t automatically happen at turn 10. It could happen at a turn other than turn 10, Perhaps 11, Even 12. Possibly 13! Ooh, 14! Look it varies! But to you it’s still not variable.
@Imperious:
Your point is a entry at any time. Mine is that it can only start on a fixed turn in order to keep balance. Your “rebuttal” is that Global has variable turn entry, mine is that is not the case: USSR and USA cannot attack Axis Europe before their turns on their own accord. You seem to skip that every-time. I find it hilarious!
So the fact that USA and USSR must wait if not provoked somehow means that the same declaration always happen at the same time every game? What?
Where did I say entry at ANY TIME? Where did I say that. WHERE? That is a lie. There is a series of events, manipulable by both sides, that lead up to it.
@Imperious:
Because Historically that’s when it happens in game turns.
So? What if the war in the game is going differently that it did in the actual past. Or are you asserting it would have happened when it did no matter what?
@Imperious:
Secondly, to allow it to happen on say turn 6 would make the game too easy for central powers to win.
Why? Perhaps you intimately know the setup and rules of the game that is about to be released (in which case you should probably not be discussing it anyways), but if we are speculating on what the game would be like (the entire purpose of the thread), then why is is automatic that turn 6 for example be doom for balance? Why is it impossible to balance the game with other factors? Why is it impossible to make the system to the point
As for yours being simpler, you are probably right. But other than the simplicity points your list is at the very least a matter of opinion if not incorrect (ignoring historical cause an effect for replaying events even though causes were different is not historical).
@Imperious:
Really? What turn does USA go to war against the axis? � What turn does Japan go to war against UK? What turn does Germany go to war against � Russia?
USA cant attack Germany before turn 4
Russia cant attack Germany before turn 3They are the only nations that are totally neutral, so they are restricted unless the AXIS attack early, but it does not go both ways. They are restricted.
Thats my final answer.
Then you are a troll. You are ignoring the actual question. The correct answers to all of those are that it DEPENDS. It can CHANGE. It is variable.
Nowhere did I say there should be no restrictions.
Quote from: Imperious Leader on Today at 07:16:06 pm
It is FIXED UNLESS THE AXIS start it early. Those allies don’t have the opportunity to start early. One side determines their fate, not both. It is not complicated.
Do you realize you used the world “unless?” If something is X unless Y, and Y happens (which it does almost every game), then it is not X!
LOL. The Russians and Americans cannot get into the war against the Euro-Axis UNLESS the Euro- Axis CHOOSE TO ATTACK EARLY. When will you admit that point?
An open system would allow both sides to enter at ANY TIME, without restrictions.
Quote from: Imperious Leader on Today at 07:16:06 pm
Quote
Take a step back. Or four. If you had read my posts you would have seen that when I was talking about the provocation points, I was referring to their potential in a WWI game. Nowhere did I say that anyone should be able to declare war at anytime.You advocate a point system were early entry is possible, and i advocate a fixed turn where collapse is only possible STARTING ON THAT TURN. � I try to explain this but you don’t get it.
Not fixed. That’s variable. It doesn’t happen on the same turn every game. It’s variable. I try to explain that but you don’t get it. Get a dictionary and save yourself this foolishness.
\
It is fixed because you CANT START BEFORE TURN X, the system does not allow the roll to occur before that date. What is unclear about that?
Quote from: Imperious Leader on Today at 07:16:06 pm
Quote
The simple FACT of the matter is that Global is a game where big events, such as beginnings of hostilities between powers, happen in DIFFERENT turns each game. And is that automatically “busted”?NO BECAUSE IT DOES NOT ALLOW THOSE ALLIES TO ATTACK GERMANY EARLY. � The only way for that to happen is if Germany feels it is advantageous to attack them early. Both sides do not have a choice.
Ah. So how exactly did you get appointed the grand master of what counts as early for this WWI game? Why does a provocation point system automatically allow for something to happen too “early?” You act like my system means the revolution could happen turn 1.
Because the game Im talking about is another game with a 5 x 4 map and 32 different sculpts. If you actually participated in these threads earlier you might have figured that out ( or not). I am telling you what our experiences were after playing with this game since 2005. We tried different entry systems, everything. It could not balance.
Quote from: Imperious Leader on Today at 07:16:06 pm
Quote
Quote from: Imperious Leader on Today at 06:22:43 pm
IN the Great War example, we set the fixed date where you can start rolling for collapse. If the game didn’t have that, it also would be busted.Prove it. Seriously, you say that, but where is any evidence? Why is a system that requires multiple turns of cumulative events automatically “busted”?
Get time machine go back to about 2007, fly to Malibu, and record what happened. You will have your answer. The only thing that worked was having a fixed start date where you start rolling for collapse. If it was early, it shifted the game too much to the other side.
You would need to be at the table during playtesting and that has already occurred. When you buy the game you can do whatever you want.
Thanks for not answering the question at all rolleyes. You claim that the system would need to have a fixed date and it would be busted otherwise, but supply no proof. � rolleyes
Supply proof that it works if the Russians can possibly collapse in 1916, see how that works for allied victory.
You are ignoring the actual question. The correct answers to all of those are that it DEPENDS. It can CHANGE. It is variable.
Nowhere did I say there should be no restrictions.
Because Historically that’s when it happens in game turns.
In this game as in global one side has a fixed start date to enter. In the case of this game it too has a fixed date where the event can start having an effect.
So? What if the war in the game is going differently that it did in the actual past. Or are you asserting it would have happened when it did no matter what?
Yes i believe in eternal recurrence. It repeats the same thing.
Quote from: Imperious Leader on Today at 07:23:30 pm
Secondly, to allow it to happen on say turn 6 would make the game too easy for central powers to win.Why? Perhaps you intimately know the setup and rules of the game that is about to be released (in which case you should probably not be discussing it anyways), but if we are speculating on what the game would be like (the entire purpose of the thread), then why is is automatic that turn 6 for example be doom for balance? Why is it impossible to balance the game with other factors? Why is it impossible to make the system to the point
Which game? I make no claims about the Axis and Allies 1914, Im talking about another game soon to be released. If you didn’t bloom late, you would have figured that out.
As for yours being simpler, you are probably right. But other than the simplicity points your list is at the very least a matter of opinion if not incorrect (ignoring historical cause an effect for replaying events even though causes were different is not historical).
This game system favors simple elegant solutions, not bogged down piece counts and accounting of unimaginable scope.
