13L G40 Boldfresh vs. Karl7 (Allies +11)

[Karl7]

TripleA Move Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.5

Game History

Round :6

Combat Move - British
            Turning on Edit Mode
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Italians from 97 Sea Zone: 1 submarine
            EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
            2 infantry moved from United Kingdom to 110 Sea Zone
            2 infantry moved from 110 Sea Zone to Holland Belgium
            1 fighter moved from 110 Sea Zone to Holland Belgium
            3 fighters moved from United Kingdom to Holland Belgium
            1 infantry moved from Egypt to 81 Sea Zone
            1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 81 Sea Zone to 97 Sea Zone
            1 infantry moved from 97 Sea Zone to Southern Italy

[Karl7]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.5

Game History

Round :6

Combat Move - British
            Turning on Edit Mode
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Italians from 97 Sea Zone: 1 submarine
            EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
            2 infantry moved from United Kingdom to 110 Sea Zone
            2 infantry moved from 110 Sea Zone to Holland Belgium
            1 fighter moved from 110 Sea Zone to Holland Belgium
            3 fighters moved from United Kingdom to Holland Belgium
            1 infantry moved from Egypt to 81 Sea Zone
            1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 81 Sea Zone to 97 Sea Zone
            1 infantry moved from 97 Sea Zone to Southern Italy

Combat - British
            Battle in Holland Belgium
                British attack with 4 fighters and 2 infantry
                Italians defend with 1 mech_infantry
                British win, taking Holland Belgium from Germans with 4 fighters and 2 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 4
                Casualties for Italians: 1 mech_infantry
            Battle in Southern Italy
                British captures 33PUs while taking Italians capital

Non Combat Move - British
            2 fighters moved from Holland Belgium to United Kingdom
            2 fighters moved from Holland Belgium to Normandy Bordeaux
            1 aaGun moved from United Kingdom to 109 Sea Zone
            1 infantry moved from United Kingdom to 109 Sea Zone
            1 aaGun, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 109 Sea Zone to 110 Sea Zone
            1 aaGun moved from 110 Sea Zone to Normandy Bordeaux
            1 infantry moved from 110 Sea Zone to Normandy Bordeaux
            1 armour moved from United Kingdom to 110 Sea Zone
            1 infantry moved from United Kingdom to 110 Sea Zone
            1 armour moved from 110 Sea Zone to Normandy Bordeaux
            1 infantry moved from 110 Sea Zone to Normandy Bordeaux
            1 infantry moved from Tobruk to Alexandria
            2 infantry moved from India to Burma
            1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from West India to India
            1 infantry moved from Persia to Northwest Persia
            1 mech_infantry moved from Eastern Persia to Northwest Persia
            1 infantry moved from Persia to Eastern Persia
            1 transport moved from 80 Sea Zone to 72 Sea Zone

Place Units - British
            1 transport placed in 110 Sea Zone
            1 fighter and 2 infantry placed in Egypt
            5 infantry placed in United Kingdom
            British undo move 3.
            4 infantry placed in United Kingdom
            1 infantry placed in Union of South Africa

Turn Complete - British
            British collect 39 PUs; end with 72 PUs total

[Karl7]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.5

Game History

Round :6

Place Units - UK_Pacific
            2 infantry placed in India

Turn Complete - UK_Pacific
            UK_Pacific collect 6 PUs; end with 6 PUs total
            Some Units in India change ownership: 2 infantry

[boldfresh]

italy coming now

[boldfresh]

karl, i had to tell you but you cannot make the amphibious assault of italy because you cannot kill the sub.

[boldfresh]

i see that you edited the sub out to allow you to make the landing, but the reason you could not make the landing is because the submarine precludes it.  the only way you can land is if you kill the sub and you have no possibility to kill the sub.  so please revise your UK turn.

thanks

[boldfresh]

sure was a nice idea to go for southern italy though…  :wink:

[Karl7]

P 18 of the Europe Rule Book 2nd edition:

Amphibious Assault Sequence
1. Sea combat
2. Battleship and cruiser bombardment
3. Land combat

Step 1. Sea Combat
If there are defending surface warships and/or scrambled
air units, sea combat occurs. If there are only defending
submarines and/or transports, the attacker can choose to
ignore those units or conduct sea combat.

–—

Am I missing something here?  As I read I can ignore the sub. I assumed TrippleA just has it wrong.  Has there been a clarification changing the above?   :oops:

[boldfresh]

i will find the rule for you.  you can only ignore the sub during an amphibious assault if you have a surface ship to accompany it.

[boldfresh]

sorry, what i wrote before was actually misleading because you do NOT have to kill the sub to make the landing, IF you have a surface ship.

[boldfresh]

actually if does not even necessarily need to be a surface ship, i think it can also be a sub.  let me check just to completely confirm.  what i do know for sure is that you can not land with a naked transport if there is a sub in the zone.

[Karl7]

Hmm, rules say sub does not cause sea zone to be hostile…

Check p 8 and 14

[boldfresh]

page 16 of the rulebook under “transports”, paragraph 2:

“A transport that is part of an amphibious assault must end its movement in a friendly sea zone (or one that could become friendly as a result of sea combat) from which it can conduct the assault.  However, a transport is not allowed to offload land units for an amphibious assault in a sea zone containing 1 or more ignored enemy submarines unless at least 1 warship belonging to the attacking power is also present in the sea zone at the end of the Combat Move phase.”

[Karl7]

ok, so there is an exception… very good.

will repost UK

[boldfresh]

so you are correct, the presence of an enemy sub in the zone does not make the zone hostile.  only a scrambled plane or a surface ship makes the zone hostile.  if i only had planes scrambled into the zone, you could have killed them with your air and made the landing.  bottom line though, the sub just being present in the zone precludes the landing alone whether air is scrambled or not, since you have no surface warship in the zone.

if i had a sub AND fighter(s) to scramble and you had a warship, you would have to be able to at least have a chance of killing the sub to make the assault attempt (ie, an acc would not suffice because it has no attack power).  Any ship other than an acc though, would allow you to make the landing if planes are scrambled and beaten and the sub is beaten.

However, if you had an acc and there were no scrambled planes, you COULD ignore the sub and make the landing.  a single scrambled plane though, would preclude the landing with only an acc.

i’m sure i’m poorly explaining this whole scenario!   :lol:

[boldfresh]

@Boldfresh:

so you are correct, the presence of an enemy sub in the zone does not make the zone hostile.  only a scrambled plane or a surface ship makes the zone hostile.  if i only had planes scrambled into the zone, you could have killed them with your air and made the landing.  bottom line though, the sub just being present in the zone precludes the landing alone whether air is scrambled or not, since you have no surface warship in the zone.

if i had a sub AND fighter(s) to scramble and you had a warship, you would have to be able to at least have a chance of killing the sub to make the assault attempt (ie, an acc would not suffice because it has no attack power).  Any ship other than an acc though, would allow you to make the landing if planes are scrambled and beaten and the sub is beaten.

However, if you had an acc and there were no scrambled planes, you COULD ignore the sub and make the landing.  a single scrambled plane though, would preclude the landing with only an acc.

i’m sure i’m poorly explaining this whole scenario!   :lol:

[Karl7]

No, I get it in as much as I suppose it would be silly to say that a lone transports could invade when a sub was on station.  However, according to the logic of the basic rules you can do that.  So Larry H. carved out an exception to the rules, which is fine.

To make it more reasonable, I think they should change the aircraft/sub rule so that subs can be hit by planes only if the sub wishes to contest the sea zone.  Therefore in this scenario to defend against the transport the sub has to fight and try actually kill the transport.  But them’s the rules……

[Karl7]

TripleA Move Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.5

Game History

Round :6

Combat Move - British
            2 infantry moved from United Kingdom to 110 Sea Zone
            2 infantry moved from 110 Sea Zone to Holland Belgium
            1 bomber moved from United Kingdom to Southern France
            3 fighters moved from United Kingdom to Holland Belgium

[Karl7]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.5

Game History

Round :6

Combat Move - British
            2 infantry moved from United Kingdom to 110 Sea Zone
            2 infantry moved from 110 Sea Zone to Holland Belgium
            1 bomber moved from United Kingdom to Southern France
            3 fighters moved from United Kingdom to Holland Belgium

Combat - British
            Battle in Holland Belgium
                British attack with 3 fighters and 2 infantry
                Italians defend with 1 mech_infantry
                British win, taking Holland Belgium from Germans with 3 fighters and 1 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 1
                Casualties for British: 1 infantry
                Casualties for Italians: 1 mech_infantry
            Strategic bombing raid in Southern France
                Bombing raid in Southern France rolls: 3 and causes: 3 damage to unit: factory_minor
                Bombing raid in Southern France causes 3 damage total.

Non Combat Move - British
            1 fighter moved from Holland Belgium to Normandy Bordeaux
            1 fighter moved from Holland Belgium to Normandy Bordeaux
            1 fighter moved from Holland Belgium to United Kingdom
            1 fighter moved from 110 Sea Zone to United Kingdom
            1 aaGun moved from United Kingdom to 109 Sea Zone
            1 infantry moved from United Kingdom to 109 Sea Zone
            1 aaGun, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 109 Sea Zone to 110 Sea Zone
            1 aaGun moved from 110 Sea Zone to Normandy Bordeaux
            1 infantry moved from 110 Sea Zone to Normandy Bordeaux
            1 armour moved from United Kingdom to 110 Sea Zone
            1 infantry moved from United Kingdom to 110 Sea Zone
            1 armour moved from 110 Sea Zone to Normandy Bordeaux
            1 infantry moved from 110 Sea Zone to Normandy Bordeaux
            2 infantry moved from India to Burma
            1 infantry moved from West India to India
            1 artillery moved from West India to India
            1 mech_infantry moved from Eastern Persia to Northwest Persia
            2 infantry moved from Persia to Northwest Persia
            1 transport moved from 80 Sea Zone to 81 Sea Zone
            1 bomber moved from Southern France to United Kingdom

Place Units - British
            1 factory_minor placed in Persia
            1 artillery and 2 infantry placed in Egypt
            1 transport placed in 110 Sea Zone
            3 infantry placed in United Kingdom

Turn Complete - British
            British collect 36 PUs; end with 36 PUs total

[Karl7]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.5

Game History

Round :6

Place Units - UK_Pacific
            2 infantry placed in India

Turn Complete - UK_Pacific
            UK_Pacific collect 6 PUs; end with 6 PUs total
            Some Units in India change ownership: 2 infantry