Thanks @VictoryFirst , it’s our loss that we can’t play with you for awhile.
Thanks for the go ahead on the G40, and don’t worry about the tournament because the other guys were cool
I wish the best to you, and will be great when you come back
I made a mistake clicking too fast. So I have to post the save game directly.
About Jerusalem - holding Antiochia wasnt the problem. I simulated that situation. But Greek had the chance to get strong and that’s something I wanted avoid.
Another question:
I am already 30 production behind. I know I could have held - or reconquered - Sardinia if I moved right. But 30 already is quite a difference. What went wrong on my side? Or is this normal and will change now with the fall of Sicilia and the downsizing of Greece? It doesnt seem so, as at the same time Seleucia also looses income to Parthia.
And here the move of Carthage.
Test summary from TripleA, engine version: 1.6.1.2, time: 18:07:41
TripleA Turn Summary for game: 270BC, version: 1.1.2
Game History
Round :3
Combat Move - RomanRepublic
1 legionaire and 4 velitess moved from Caralis to SZ 24
1 legionaire moved from Aleria to SZ 21
1 legionaire and 1 trireme moved from SZ 21 to SZ 25
2 biremes, 1 legionaire, 1 trireme and 4 velitess moved from SZ 24 to SZ 25
2 legionaires and 4 velitess moved from SZ 25 to Roma
14 velitess moved from Roma to Capua
1 legionaire moved from Tarentum to SZ 45
1 legionaire moved from SZ 45 to Dodona
1 ballista and 5 legionaires moved from Ariminum to Patavium
1 ballista, 3 cavalrys, 7 legionaires and 6 velitess moved from Verona to Patavium
1 legionaire moved from Capua to Tarentum
Combat - RomanRepublic
Battle in Patavium
RomanRepublic attack with 2 ballistas, 3 cavalrys, 12 legionaires and 6 velitess
Neutral defend with 3 archers, 5 axemen and 4 swordmen
RomanRepublic win, taking Patavium from Neutral with 2 ballistas, 3 cavalrys and 12 legionaires remaining. Battle score for attacker is 25
Casualties for Neutral: 3 archers, 5 axemen and 4 swordmen
Casualties for RomanRepublic: 6 velitess
Battle in Dodona
RomanRepublic attack with 1 legionaire
Macedonia defend with 1 peltasts
RomanRepublic win, taking Dodona from Macedonia with 1 legionaire remaining. Battle score for attacker is 2
Casualties for Macedonia: 1 peltasts
Non Combat Move - RomanRepublic
2 velitess moved from Capua to Roma
6 velitess moved from Capua to Roma
Place Units - RomanRepublic
6 biremes placed in SZ 25
Turn Complete - RomanRepublic
RomanRepublic collect 69 PUs; end with 87 PUs total
TripleA Turn Summary for game: 270BC, version: 1.1.2
Game History
Round :3
Purchase Units - GreekCityStates
GreekCityStates buy 17 slingerss and 1 trireme; Remaining resources: 2 PUs;
Combat Move - GreekCityStates
1 cavalry, 1 hoplite and 3 slingerss moved from Athens to Delphi
1 archer, 1 hoplite and 3 slingerss moved from Corinth to Athens
2 triremes moved from SZ 68 to SZ 67
6 slingerss moved from Sparta to SZ 67
6 slingerss moved from SZ 67 to Athens
Combat - GreekCityStates
Battle in Delphi
GreekCityStates attack with 1 cavalry, 1 hoplite and 3 slingerss
Macedonia defend with 1 cavalry and 2 swordmen
GreekCityStates win, taking Delphi from Macedonia with 1 cavalry and 1 hoplite remaining. Battle score for attacker is 6
Casualties for Macedonia: 1 cavalry and 2 swordmen
Casualties for GreekCityStates: 3 slingerss
Non Combat Move - GreekCityStates
Place Units - GreekCityStates
7 slingerss placed in Athens
1 trireme placed in SZ 68
4 slingerss placed in Rhodos
6 slingerss placed in Sparta
Turn Complete - GreekCityStates
GreekCityStates collect 29 PUs; end with 31 PUs total
The game is set up so that Romans are on the defensive in the west and seleucs in the east. Seleucia changing hands alone is a swing of 20 in production, Carthage side doesn’t have as easy gains early on and for that reason might be bit more challenging to play, but i still consider the map quite balanced, though I can’t claim to know all the optimal moves…
TripleA Turn Summary for game: 270BC, version: 1.1.2
Game History
Round :3
Purchase Units - Macedonia
Macedonia buy 1 city and 12 peltastss; Remaining resources: 1 PUs;
Combat Move - Macedonia
2 cavalrys moved from Thessalonica to Dodona
3 peltastss moved from Thessalonica to Larissa
3 swordmen moved from Thessalonica to Larissa
1 cavalry moved from Thessalonica to Larissa
2 cavalrys and 1 peltasts moved from Larissa to Delphi
2 hoplites and 1 peltasts moved from Pergamum to SZ 70
2 hoplites, 1 peltasts and 1 trireme moved from SZ 70 to SZ 69
2 hoplites and 1 peltasts moved from SZ 69 to Larissa
Combat - Macedonia
Battle in Dodona
Macedonia attack with 2 cavalrys
RomanRepublic defend with 1 legionaire
Macedonia win, taking Dodona from RomanRepublic with 2 cavalrys remaining. Battle score for attacker is 4
Casualties for RomanRepublic: 1 legionaire
Battle in Delphi
Macedonia attack with 2 cavalrys and 1 peltasts
GreekCityStates defend with 1 cavalry and 1 hoplite
Macedonia win, taking Delphi from GreekCityStates with 2 cavalrys and 1 peltasts remaining. Battle score for attacker is 9
Casualties for GreekCityStates: 1 cavalry and 1 hoplite
Non Combat Move - Macedonia
Place Units - Macedonia
6 peltastss placed in Larissa
6 peltastss placed in Thessalonica
1 city placed in Odessus
Turn Complete - Macedonia
Macedonia collect 36 PUs; end with 37 PUs total
Territory Summary for Macedonia :
Thessalonica : 1 flag, 1 city and 6 peltastss
Larissa : 1 flag, 4 cavalrys, 1 city, 10 hoplites, 20 peltastss and 3 swordmen
Pergamum : 1 flag
Delphi : 1 flag, 2 cavalrys and 1 peltasts
SZ 69 : 1 flag, 5 biremes and 1 trireme
Sardis : 1 flag, 1 peltasts
Odessus : 1 flag, 1 city
Dodona : 1 flag, 2 cavalrys
Production/PUs Summary :
Carthage : 65 / 65
RomanRepublic : 65 / 87
GreekCityStates : 25 / 31
Macedonia : 36 / 37
Egypt : 38 / 39
Seleucid : 52 / 57
Parthia : 64 / 71
Numidia : 24 / 25
The game is set up so that Romans are on the defensive in the west and seleucs in the east. Seleucia changing hands alone is a swing of 20 in production, Carthage side doesn’t have as easy gains early on and for that reason might be bit more challenging to play, but i still consider the map quite balanced, though I can’t claim to know all the optimal moves…
But the main question remains: did I make any serious mistakes that put me at such disadvantage? There is still an income gap of about 20. Or is it normal?
TripleA Turn Summary for game: 270BC, version: 1.1.2
Game History
Round :3
Purchase Units - Egypt
Egypt buy 8 axemen and 1 city; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;
Combat Move - Egypt
3 spearmen moved from Pharan to SZ 59
3 spearmen and 1 trireme moved from SZ 59 to SZ 60
3 spearmen moved from SZ 60 to Salamis
4 axemen and 2 spearmen moved from Pharan to Jerusalem
8 axemen moved from Memphis to Alexandria
1 axeman moved from Jerusalem to Sidon
1 axeman moved from Jerusalem to Sidon
Combat - Egypt
Battle in Sidon
Egypt attack with 2 axemen
Seleucid defend with 1 peltasts
Egypt win, taking Sidon from Seleucid with 2 axemen remaining. Battle score for attacker is 2
Casualties for Seleucid: 1 peltasts
Non Combat Move - Egypt
Place Units - Egypt
1 city placed in Salamis
8 axemen placed in Jerusalem
Turn Complete - Egypt
Egypt collect 47 PUs; end with 47 PUs total
I didn’t spot any serious mistakes (apart from the Athens rnd 1 mayhaps).
TripleA Turn Summary for game: 270BC, version: 1.1.2
Game History
Round :3
Purchase Units - Seleucid
Seleucid buy 1 bireme, 4 cavalrys and 16 peltastss; Remaining resources: 2 PUs;
Combat Move - Seleucid
1 peltasts moved from Antioch to Edessa
1 peltasts moved from Antioch to Emesa
1 cavalry and 2 peltastss moved from Antioch to Sidon
3 peltastss moved from Tarsus to Antioch
4 peltastss moved from Antioch to Damascus
2 cavalrys moved from Antioch to Damascus
1 cavalry, 4 hoplites and 3 peltastss moved from Sardis to Nicaea
1 cataphract moved from Pessinus to Nicaea
Combat - Seleucid
Battle in Nicaea
Seleucid attack with 1 cataphract, 1 cavalry, 4 hoplites and 3 peltastss
Neutral defend with 4 spearmen
Seleucid win, taking Nicaea from Neutral with 1 cataphract, 1 cavalry, 4 hoplites and 2 peltastss remaining. Battle score for attacker is 10
Casualties for Seleucid: 1 peltasts
Casualties for Neutral: 4 spearmen
Battle in Sidon
Seleucid attack with 1 cavalry and 2 peltastss
Egypt defend with 2 axemen
Seleucid win, taking Sidon from Egypt with 1 cavalry and 2 peltastss remaining. Battle score for attacker is 6
Casualties for Egypt: 2 axemen
Non Combat Move - Seleucid
Place Units - Seleucid
11 peltastss placed in Antioch
5 peltastss placed in Damascus
4 cavalrys placed in Tarsus
1 bireme placed in SZ 61
Turn Complete - Seleucid
Seleucid collect 56 PUs; end with 58 PUs total
Territory Summary for Seleucid :
Pessinus : 1 flag
Damascus : 1 flag, 3 cataphracts, 15 cavalrys, 1 city, 12 hoplites, 6 legionaires and 20 peltastss
Edessa : 1 flag, 1 peltasts
Antioch : 1 flag, 1 city and 14 peltastss
SZ 61 : 1 flag, 4 biremes and 1 trireme
Tarsus : 1 flag, 4 cavalrys and 1 city
Nicaea : 1 flag, 1 cataphract, 1 cavalry, 4 hoplites and 2 peltastss
Sidon : 1 flag, 1 cavalry and 2 peltastss
Emesa : 1 flag, 1 peltasts
Production/PUs Summary :
Carthage : 65 / 65
RomanRepublic : 65 / 87
GreekCityStates : 25 / 31
Macedonia : 36 / 37
Egypt : 38 / 47
Seleucid : 56 / 58
Parthia : 64 / 71
Numidia : 24 / 25
TripleA Turn Summary for game: 270BC, version: 1.1.2
Game History
Round :3
Purchase Units - Parthia
Parthia buy 14 cavalrys and 1 city; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;
Combat Move - Parthia
2 cavalrys and 5 horsearchers moved from Teredon to Euphrates
4 cavalrys moved from Vologesia to Euphrates
1 spearman moved from Hatra to Edessa
1 cavalry moved from Ninive to Edessa
1 spearman moved from Hatra to Emesa
1 cavalry moved from Ninive to Emesa
2 spearmen moved from Ninive to Amida
2 cataphracts moved from Ninive to Amida
1 cataphract and 1 cavalry moved from Ninive to Amida
1 spearman moved from Ninive to Amida
1 spearman moved from Hatra to Edessa
1 spearman moved from Hatra to Emesa
2 archers moved from Ninive to Amida
6 archers and 8 spearmen moved from Hatra to Amida
7 cavalrys moved from Persepolis to Seleucia
Combat - Parthia
Battle in Edessa
Parthia attack with 1 cavalry and 2 spearmen
Seleucid defend with 1 peltasts
Parthia win, taking Edessa from Seleucid with 1 cavalry and 2 spearmen remaining. Battle score for attacker is 2
Casualties for Seleucid: 1 peltasts
Battle in Amida
Parthia attack with 8 archers, 3 cataphracts, 1 cavalry and 11 spearmen
Neutral defend with 2 archers and 4 spearmen
1 cavalry owned by the Parthia , 3 cataphracts owned by the Parthia , 8 spearmen owned by the Parthia and 8 archers owned by the Parthia retreated to Hatra
Neutral win with 1 archer remaining. Battle score for attacker is 7
Casualties for Neutral: 1 archer and 4 spearmen
Casualties for Parthia: 3 spearmen
Battle in Euphrates
Parthia attack with 6 cavalrys and 5 horsearchers
Neutral defend with 4 spearmen
Parthia win, taking Euphrates from Neutral with 5 cavalrys and 5 horsearchers remaining. Battle score for attacker is 8
Casualties for Neutral: 4 spearmen
Casualties for Parthia: 1 cavalry
Battle in Emesa
Parthia attack with 1 cavalry and 2 spearmen
Seleucid defend with 1 peltasts
Parthia win, taking Emesa from Seleucid with 1 cavalry and 2 spearmen remaining. Battle score for attacker is 2
Casualties for Seleucid: 1 peltasts
Non Combat Move - Parthia
Place Units - Parthia
10 cavalrys placed in Seleucia
4 cavalrys placed in Persepolis
1 city placed in Hatra
Turn Complete - Parthia
Parthia collect 75 PUs; end with 75 PUs total
TripleA Turn Summary for game: 270BC, version: 1.1.2
Game History
Round :3
Purchase Units - Numidia
Numidia buy 8 spearmen; Remaining resources: 1 PUs;
Combat Move - Numidia
2 spearmen moved from Cartenna to Siga
6 cavalrys moved from Cartenna to Zama
2 cavalrys moved from Siga to Cirta
1 archer and 5 spearmen moved from Thenae to Sabrata
2 archers, 3 spearmen and 3 swordmen moved from Capsa to Thenae
2 spearmen moved from Leptis Magna to Berenice
2 biremes moved from SZ 31 to SZ 32
Combat - Numidia
Battle in Sabrata
Numidia attack with 1 archer and 5 spearmen
Neutral defend with 1 archer and 1 spearman
Numidia win, taking Sabrata from Neutral with 1 archer and 3 spearmen remaining. Battle score for attacker is 1
Casualties for Neutral: 1 archer and 1 spearman
Casualties for Numidia: 2 spearmen
Non Combat Move - Numidia
Place Units - Numidia
4 spearmen placed in Cyrene
4 spearmen placed in Leptis Magna
Turn Complete - Numidia
Numidia collect 25 PUs; end with 26 PUs total
Territory Summary for Numidia :
Siwa : 1 flag, 2 archers, 8 cavalrys and 7 spearmen
Siga : 1 flag, 1 cavalry and 4 spearmen
Thenae : 1 flag, 2 archers, 3 spearmen and 3 swordmen
Berenice : 1 flag, 2 spearmen
Cartenna : 1 flag
Sabrata : 1 flag, 1 archer and 3 spearmen
Cyrene : 1 flag, 1 city and 4 spearmen
Auzia : 1 flag
SZ 32 : 1 flag, 2 biremes
Cirta : 1 flag, 2 cavalrys
Zama : 1 flag, 6 cavalrys
Leptis Magna : 1 flag, 1 city and 4 spearmen
Production/PUs Summary :
Carthage : 65 / 65
RomanRepublic : 65 / 87
GreekCityStates : 25 / 31
Macedonia : 36 / 37
Egypt : 38 / 47
Seleucid : 47 / 58
Parthia : 75 / 75
Numidia : 25 / 26
TripleA Turn Summary for game: 270BC, version: 1.1.2
Game History
Round :4
Purchase Units - Carthage
Carthage buy 4 biremes, 4 cavalrys and 5 swordmen; Remaining resources: 1 PUs;
Combat Move - Carthage
1 warelephant moved from Thapsus to SZ 36
1 swordman moved from Carthago to SZ 36
1 cavalry moved from Thapsus to Carthago
1 swordman, 1 trireme and 1 warelephant moved from SZ 36 to SZ 33
1 swordman and 1 warelephant moved from SZ 33 to Lilybaeum
1 hoplite and 4 swordmen moved from Syracuse to Lilybaeum
1 trireme moved from SZ 33 to SZ 32
1 spearman moved from Carthago to SZ 32
1 spearman moved from SZ 32 to Caralis
Carthage take Caralis from RomanRepublic
5 biremes and 1 trireme moved from SZ 27 to SZ 33
1 trireme moved from SZ 33 to SZ 32
6 spearmen moved from Lilybaeum to Syracuse
1 swordman moved from Valentia to SZ 17
1 spearman moved from Palma to SZ 17
4 cavalrys moved from Carthago Nova to Toletum
2 spearmen moved from Tarraco to Toletum
4 cavalrys, 2 spearmen and 9 swordmen moved from Tarraco to Barcino
2 biremes, 1 spearman and 1 swordman moved from SZ 17 to SZ 18
1 spearman and 1 swordman moved from SZ 18 to Barcino
Combat - Carthage
Battle in Barcino
Carthage attack with 4 cavalrys, 3 spearmen and 10 swordmen
Neutral defend with 1 axeman, 1 cavalry and 3 swordmen
Carthage win, taking Barcino from Neutral with 4 cavalrys, 1 spearman and 10 swordmen remaining. Battle score for attacker is 13
Casualties for Neutral: 1 axeman, 1 cavalry and 3 swordmen
Casualties for Carthage: 2 spearmen
Battle in Toletum
Carthage attack with 4 cavalrys and 2 spearmen
Neutral defend with 4 cavalrys
Carthage win, taking Toletum from Neutral with 4 cavalrys and 2 spearmen remaining. Battle score for attacker is 16
Casualties for Neutral: 4 cavalrys
Non Combat Move - Carthage
Place Units - Carthage
5 swordmen placed in Lilybaeum
4 biremes placed in SZ 32
4 cavalrys placed in Carthago Nova
Turn Complete - Carthage
Carthage collect 75 PUs; end with 76 PUs total
Territory Summary for Carthage :
Barcino : 1 flag, 4 cavalrys, 1 spearman and 10 swordmen
Thenae : 1 flag
Salmantica : 1 flag
Caralis : 1 flag, 1 spearman
Tarraco : 1 flag
Castulo : 1 flag
Carthago Nova : 1 flag, 4 cavalrys and 1 city
Toletum : 1 flag, 4 cavalrys and 2 spearmen
Carthago : 1 flag, 1 cavalry, 1 city and 1 swordman
Syracuse : 1 flag, 15 spearmen and 1 warelephant
SZ 33 : 1 flag, 5 biremes and 3 triremes
SZ 32 : 1 flag, 4 biremes and 2 triremes
SZ 18 : 1 flag, 2 biremes
Lilybaeum : 1 flag, 2 cavalrys, 1 city, 1 hoplite, 3 spearmen, 14 swordmen and 2 warelephants
Valentia : 1 flag
Production/PUs Summary :
Carthage : 75 / 76
RomanRepublic : 61 / 87
GreekCityStates : 25 / 31
Macedonia : 36 / 37
Egypt : 38 / 47
Seleucid : 47 / 58
Parthia : 75 / 75
Numidia : 25 / 26
I didn’t spot any serious mistakes (apart from the Athens rnd 1 mayhaps).
But in that case the map is seriously unbalanced. A difference of 10 to 20% of income and the only one major mistake was not to punish bad dicing luck and one small mistake leads to that conclusion for me.
Of course I can see a few mistakes on my side
I just try to understand this map.
TripleA Turn Summary for game: 270BC, version: 1.1.2
Game History
Round :4
Purchase Units - RomanRepublic
RomanRepublic buy 12 biremes; Remaining resources: 3 PUs;
Combat Move - RomanRepublic
8 biremes and 2 triremes moved from SZ 25 to SZ 28
1 legionaire moved from Tarentum to SZ 45
1 legionaire moved from SZ 45 to Dodona
12 legionaires moved from Patavium to Senio
2 ballistas moved from Patavium to Senio
2 legionaires and 12 velitess moved from Roma to Capua
Combat - RomanRepublic
Battle in Senio
RomanRepublic attack with 2 ballistas and 12 legionaires
Neutral defend with 3 swordmen
RomanRepublic win, taking Senio from Neutral with 2 ballistas and 11 legionaires remaining. Battle score for attacker is 8
Casualties for Neutral: 3 swordmen
Casualties for RomanRepublic: 1 legionaire
Battle in Dodona
RomanRepublic attack with 1 legionaire
Macedonia defend with 2 cavalrys
Macedonia win with 2 cavalrys remaining. Battle score for attacker is -4
Casualties for RomanRepublic: 1 legionaire
Non Combat Move - RomanRepublic
Place Units - RomanRepublic
9 biremes placed in SZ 28
3 biremes placed in SZ 28
Turn Complete - RomanRepublic
RomanRepublic collect 64 PUs; end with 67 PUs total
TripleA Turn Summary for game: 270BC, version: 1.1.2
Game History
Round :4
Purchase Units - GreekCityStates
GreekCityStates buy 15 slingerss; Remaining resources: 1 PUs;
Combat Move - GreekCityStates
6 slingerss moved from Sparta to SZ 67
3 slingerss and 1 trireme moved from SZ 67 to SZ 68
3 slingerss moved from SZ 68 to Sardis
3 slingerss and 1 trireme moved from SZ 67 to SZ 68
3 slingerss moved from SZ 68 to Athens
4 slingerss moved from Rhodos to SZ 68
4 slingerss moved from SZ 68 to Athens
1 hoplite and 4 slingerss moved from Athens to Delphi
Combat - GreekCityStates
Battle in Sardis
GreekCityStates attack with 3 slingerss
Macedonia defend with 1 peltasts
GreekCityStates win, taking Sardis from Seleucid with 3 slingerss remaining. Battle score for attacker is 2
Casualties for Macedonia: 1 peltasts
Battle in Delphi
GreekCityStates attack with 1 hoplite and 4 slingerss
Macedonia defend with 2 cavalrys and 1 peltasts
GreekCityStates win, taking Delphi from Macedonia with 1 hoplite and 3 slingerss remaining. Battle score for attacker is 8
Casualties for Macedonia: 2 cavalrys and 1 peltasts
Casualties for GreekCityStates: 1 slingers
Non Combat Move - GreekCityStates
Place Units - GreekCityStates
7 slingerss placed in Athens
5 slingerss placed in Rhodos
3 slingerss placed in Sparta
Turn Complete - GreekCityStates
GreekCityStates collect 36 PUs; end with 37 PUs total
I don’t really think it is unbalanced, as Carthage’s naval initiative counts for a lot. Though now I think I managed to subdue that and it might be hard from here.
TripleA Turn Summary for game: 270BC, version: 1.1.2
Game History
Round :4
Purchase Units - Macedonia
Macedonia buy 1 bireme and 15 peltastss; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;
Combat Move - Macedonia
3 peltastss and 2 swordmen moved from Larissa to Delphi
2 cavalrys moved from Dodona to Larissa
1 swordman moved from Larissa to Dodona
6 peltastss moved from Thessalonica to Larissa
Combat - Macedonia
Battle in Delphi
Macedonia attack with 3 peltastss and 2 swordmen
GreekCityStates defend with 1 hoplite and 3 slingerss
Macedonia win, taking Delphi from GreekCityStates with 2 swordmen remaining. Battle score for attacker is 5
Casualties for GreekCityStates: 1 hoplite and 3 slingerss
Casualties for Macedonia: 3 peltastss
Non Combat Move - Macedonia
Place Units - Macedonia
1 bireme placed in SZ 69
6 peltastss placed in Larissa
5 peltastss placed in Thessalonica
4 peltastss placed in Odessus
Turn Complete - Macedonia
Macedonia collect 36 PUs; end with 36 PUs total
Territory Summary for Macedonia :
Thessalonica : 1 flag, 1 city and 5 peltastss
Larissa : 1 flag, 6 cavalrys, 1 city, 10 hoplites and 29 peltastss
Pergamum : 1 flag
Delphi : 1 flag, 2 swordmen
SZ 69 : 1 flag, 6 biremes and 1 trireme
Odessus : 1 flag, 1 city and 4 peltastss
Dodona : 1 flag, 1 swordman
Production/PUs Summary :
Carthage : 75 / 76
RomanRepublic : 64 / 67
GreekCityStates : 32 / 37
Macedonia : 36 / 36
Egypt : 38 / 47
Seleucid : 40 / 58
Parthia : 75 / 75
Numidia : 25 / 26
I don’t really think it is unbalanced, as Carthage’s naval initiative counts for a lot.
So Carthage was my main mistake? I am still trying to find the strategy I have to change in the next game.
Rome can hold for a long time by building fortresses, while the East seems to fall quite soon. Salamis also looks quite critical to me. But even if I had taken it, I am not sure, that Seleucia could hold nearly as long as Rome.