Guys,
This is a great thread, as I enjoy hearing everyone’s answers and the way they arrived at them. They are ALL correct, and ALL enjoyable.
“Tall Paul”
There are indeed many tales untold.
But to go back to the issue: bombers can win campaigns if fighters have won air supremacy. Else bombers will have to do night raids, which are more terror than actual strategical bombing.
By the way, I would love to discuss these things, but I am student here and not a lecturer :-D
You are completely on your own class far higher than the rest to talk here. I guess that makes even unintelligent talk non-existent here.
The 1943 movie “Air Force” features the crew of a B-17 bomber and an American fighter pilot who’s travelling with them as a passenger. A subplot of the film is a running argument between them over the relative merits of fighters and bombers, including a funny scene in which the fighter pilot argues that bomber auto-piloting mechanisms (“electronic brains”) will soon become so advanced that they’ll be given officer commissions and will thus replace human crews entirely.
Never heard of that film. Is it worth watching?
Nice observation by the Fighter Pilot though.
@wittmann:
Never heard of that film. Is it worth watching?
I’m very fond of it and I’ve seen it many times. It was made at the midpoint of the war, and it was clearly meant to raise morale in US audiences at a time when the Allies had not yet achieved clear superiority over the Axis. It’s the fictitious story of a B-17 which leaves the US west coast for Hawaiii on December 6th (as part of the famous group of B-17s which really did arrive there just as the shooting started), and which from there ends up flying virtually non-stop to Wake and Manilla and Australia. Lots of human interest elements to the story, plus some of the usual wartime stock character types like the folksy guy from Brooklyn and the tough ethnic kid with a chip on his shoulder. Star Wars fans will recognize one the battle scenes as the direct inspiration for the famous Millenium Falcon gun turret sequence in Episode IV.
Thanks for your time in answering me.
I may have seen it; there are few war films I haven’t seen, just cannot remember.
Moilami,
There are indeed many tales untold.
But to go back to the issue: bombers can win campaigns if fighters have won air supremacy. Else bombers will have to do night raids, which are more terror than actual strategical bombing.
In the simplest terms, the fighters win the AIR, making it possible for the Bombers to destroy the GROUND. This oversimplifies things, because there are so many facets to warfare, even when only talking specifically about air-warfare.
––You know, in the 1930’s when the B-17 was being developed and was faster that the fighters of the day, the “Bomber Boys” had a theory that “the(unescorted) Bomber will always get through”. They had to learn that lesson the hard way over Germany.
By the way, I would love to discuss these things, but I am student here and not a lecturer  :-D
All of us here are “students”. And I hope I never come off as being a lecturer, or the “teacher”. Far from it. I may have read, learned, and remembered a lot about WWII,…but probably so have a lot of people on this forum. I’m always looking forward to learning from all of YOU.
You are completely on your own class far higher than the rest to talk here. I guess that makes even unintelligent talk non-existent here.
––I don’t know how to answer that except to say that I’m certain that there are many people that know a lot more than me concerning WWII. But I’ll consider it a complinent and say Thank you, though.
“Tall Paul”
I saw one russian plane mentioned. While this is a little off topic how do you think russian planes matched up with their wwII conterparts? As far as favorite aircraft probably B-17 from watching all those 12o’clock high shows.
IL-2 maybe did.
I don’t trust other Russian planes, except La-7.
IL-2 maybe did.
I don’t trust other Russian planes, except La-7.
Good to see the Soviet planes , besidesthe Il-2 get some respect.
Thanks guys
I have several planes on this list, my top is perhaps;
il-2 sturmvoik
P61 black widdow
Macchi C.205
me109
P51
in no particular order
De Havilland Mosquito
I went to the National Air and Space Museum yesterday, the FW-190 was awesome.
Looks good, Worsham.
My wife’s uncle has invited me to the UK’s 2nd biggest Aeroplane museum(Cosford, Shropshire)when he next takes Al’s grandfather. He says he thinks there is an ME262 and a 190!
Have tried to check, but the website only says there are 72 planes.
Is more exciting not knowing!
@wittmann:
He says he thinks there is an ME262 and a 190!
I was at the US Air Force Museum at Wright-Patterson in Dayton, Ohio a few weeks back and saw their Me-262 and Fw-190… those planes are so much smaller than you’d think. Really, really cool though. It kind of opens your eyes a bit when you walk in to the first hangar and see the massive tail fin for Bock’s Car… I got to touch it… wow, what a thrill.
0 killer!
I remember standing in our back yard as a youngster in the early 1940s and seeing P-38s fly over. Like the straight ahead firepower and the saftey of two Allison engines in the long distance missions of the Pacific.
Thanks Hoffman and Fishmoto.
I am never happier than walking around WW1 or WW2 planes in a museum and telling myself, or whomever I am with, what they are. I love the vain, show off, child in me!
Only standing in front of a German tank makes me happier(and it has been far too long now.)
Bovington will be visited again this Spring.
Yesterday I saw a Zero, Spitfire, ME-109, P-51 and Macchi C.202 at the Smithsonian Air and Space Center.
@Tall:
Hey Guys,
There are so many VARIABLES,…So many ANSWERS. May I ask what qualities we are basing our opinions on?
Beauty
Operational capabilities
Rugedness
Dependability
Most/Least produced
Most advanced technology
By country
By Theater
By Campaign
By Type
Best “fit” for the situationI’m NOT trying to be a “fun-killer” here,…but there isn’t just ONE, because the answer changes whenever you modify the question.
“Tall Paul”
p.s.—My Dad was wounded by a 500 lb. bomb dropped by a flying ME-262 he was trying to point out to his buddies. He really respects the ME-262.
His favorite aircraft is undoubtably the P-47 Thunderbolt. He once saw one attacking a German flak-tower. After taking a direct hit the P-47 staggered, then flew away. My Dad and his buddies saw something fall off of the Thunderbolt, so they went over and found two complete cylinders from the P-47’s radial engine,…yet the “Jug” still flew home. Wow!, Impressive. Dad said the XIX Air Force P-47’s saved his as* on numerous occasions. It was without a doubt, the BEST ground attack aircraft in WW2, possibly of all time.
I understand your thoughts about the JUG being the best ground attack aircraft of WWII. But I question your comment “possibly of all time”. As I recall, the F4U was considered a great ground attack aircraft so much so that continued to be produced into the 1950s. Not sure of the date. I think it was powered by the same radial engine as the P-47. The F4U was one of the best friends of the 1st Marine division at the Frozen Chosin area of N. Korea in 1950. Of course in later times we must consider the A-10. But as far as WWII is concerned the F4U has to be considered for its longivity and versatility. Carrier based as well as land based.
