Cloning….

[Yanny]

Stem cell research is cloning on a small scale. With Stem Cells, you don’t grow humans and take their organs, you grow organs alone.

Overpopulation? Naw, theres a Nuclear war coming soon.

[ZimZaxZeo]

I think, Yanny, you are right on using stem cells to grow organs alone – but wrong on the next nuke war as a population-buster. I don’t see the global thermonuke holocaust (like the US-USSR Cold War-Dr. Strangelove scenario) happening. {knock on wood} I see an exchange of fewer than 10 nukes, and not between superpowers… 50-50 chance one or more superpowers does take part, but not directly against another superpower.

(by “superpowers” here, let’s suppose I mean US, Russia, China, UK, France :::: the major nuke stockpilers)

So who else does that give us, looking only two or three years down the line:
India, Pakistan, NKorea, SAfrica, Israel, certain of the former Sov republics that have supposedly disarmed, various non-state organizations, some nation or non-nation based in South America, Africa, Europe, Asia - - - and of course::::: CANADA!!!

Anyway, not enough to cause nuclear winter, not enough to make much of a dent at all in human population, but more than enough to give just about everyone a really rotten day.

Now here’s an ax to grind: the non-weapon nuke power reactors around the globe… I see a meltdown due in a country other than US (TMI) & Ukraine (USSR at time of Chernobyl). The real nuclear war is ongoing punishment of air, water, wonderful dumb animals, plants, and those mischevious human beings who insist on digging up, concentrating, enriching and dispersing uranium and plutonium to the four corners of the world.
Why a new meltdown? Well either we must assume that in the years that have passed since TMI & Chernobyl, most nuke power facilities around the world have been really professionalized and hardened vs. negligence, accident, terrorism, etc. … or that most have not. If the latter is true, I think it is just a matter of time, and I could be wrong about all of this but I don’t think terrorism will be the cause – more likely to be corporate greed and negligent safety, construction & maintenance procedures and practices.

This is well off the subject of cloning. But it certainly has to do with population pressure. All I know is, the expense of building a billion windmills, and the human and property cost if they all fell down… well, it would have to be less than one single Chernobyl. Clone solar!

[Guest]

now i would like to know what does every one have against Red Necks ? i mean they are realley nice peps.

[yourbuttocks]

Three Mile Island wasn’t a meltdown.

Anyway, Nuclear Power plants are the perfect terrorist targets.

[ZimZaxZeo]

Yah, good targets for terrorists. I’m just gut-guessing that a major nuke accident will happen before a major terror strike on a nuke. Like, feeling out the odds… total guesswork.

As far as TMI, I won’t quibble. Chernobyl is what a meltdown looks like. An area now in Ukraine and Moldova as big as half of Pennsylvania where the health authorities advise not eating any food grown there for a very very long miserable time. The one piece of good luck was the wind was blowing away from Kiev. (Try to imagine the upper Midwest with Chicago taken out.)

I think TMI is generally considered a partial meltdown. The core elements began melting and fusing together, since the operators didn’t know the top of the core had been left exposed (cooling water leak), and the whole meshuggah slumped off center and started to head for the floor. They missed a total meltdown by less than an hour, I’ve read here and there. They had bad luck with faulty instruments and bad guesswork, and then good luck with better guesswork. The containment shell pretty much did its job, and the radiation stayed coiled in its cave, jealous of its treasure.

[GeZe]

ummm, what does this have to do with cloning? :-?

[TG Moses VI]

Cloning = Bad Mutation Disorder coming from Nuclear Meltdowns :)

[GeZe]

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh 8)

[ZimZaxZeo]

Originally, I was responding to this half-informative, half-nihilist post::::::

@Yanny:

Stem cell research is cloning on a small scale. With Stem Cells, you don’t grow humans and take their organs, you grow organs alone.

Overpopulation? Naw, theres a Nuclear war coming soon.

[cystic crypt]

i knew what you were talking about ZZZ. I figured TG was joking. (really, it’s not that funny, given the problems/genetic disorders suffered by survivors of hiroshima, chernoble etc.)
I like the idea of retroviruses for the next Bad Mutation Disorder - released by less-than-careful/overzealous scientists looking for the “magic bullet”.

[ZimZaxZeo]

whoops– now I need some definitions.
retroviruses = = like HIV?
magic bullet … as in a serum to counter the virus, or cure the cancer?
bad mutation disorder - - like HIV? (or like certain political situations)

[GeZe]

YAY, my 4th topic to be popular!

[cystic crypt]

@GeZe:

YAY, my 4th topic to be popular!

you see, i think that your post count should be halved based on this kind of thing. Good heavens. I think i’d be at like 4000 with these.

[cystic crypt]

@ZimZaxZeo:

whoops– now I need some definitions.
retroviruses = = like HIV?
magic bullet … as in a serum to counter the virus, or cure the cancer?
bad mutation disorder - - like HIV? (or like certain political situations)

retroviruses - yup, HIV is a nice example. The adenovirus (common cold type) is a classic in current research, especially for haematological (read: blood) diseases. Basically a vector (string of “useful DNA”) has the “relevent gene” inserted into it (i.e. the gene you want to replace with in order to produce more necessary protein/enzyme etc.). The vector (part of the genome of the virus) is inserted into the DNA of the host (using the “useful DNA”) along with the “relevant gene”. Presto - the body is now producing whatever gene product was previoiusly missing/under produced.
Magic bullet - the “relevant gene” - currently considered the gene that will cure the disease - but also applicable to whatever cure is hot right now, be it a pill or injection or whatever.
bad mutation disorder - the toxic avenger.

[GeZe]

NEWS-

the company now claims to have cloned a second child!

[ZimZaxZeo]

Thank you, Mr. crypt – still fuzzy for me.
1. Retro, meaning before, prior, backwards, reverse… are you saying that gene therapists create a retrovirus using an inserted groovy gene in a strip of DNA from a virus, and voila: here is the retrovirus to help the patient churn out good stuff?

2. It that is the case, then my HIV example would be different, i.e., a virus that attacks us by inserting its material into our healthy cells’ DNA, correct?

3. Also, when you refer to adenovirus, that’s a nice name, but confuses me: is the adenovirus you speak of turned into a retrovirus as it is genetically altered by the gene docs?

((short answers would be ok just this once…!))

[ZimZaxZeo]

@cystic:

@GeZe:

YAY, my 4th topic to be popular!

you see, i think that your post count should be halved based on this kind of thing. Good heavens. I think i’d be at like 4000 with these.

So, do wordcounts. (still no measure of quality…) Gracious sakes alive.

[cystic crypt]

@ZimZaxZeo:

Thank you, Mr. crypt – still fuzzy for me.
1. Retro, meaning before, prior, backwards, reverse… are you saying that gene therapists create a retrovirus using an inserted groovy gene in a strip of DNA from a virus, and voila: here is the retrovirus to help the patient churn out good stuff?

2. It that is the case, then my HIV example would be different, i.e., a virus that attacks us by inserting its material into our healthy cells’ DNA, correct?

3. Also, when you refer to adenovirus, that’s a nice name, but confuses me: is the adenovirus you speak of turned into a retrovirus as it is genetically altered by the gene docs?

((short answers would be ok just this once…!))

1. more or less
2. if HIV were better understood and managed, it could be the greatest boon to the world in terms of utilizing its “insertion mechanics” to our advantage.
3. more or less. it’s just a virus that’s handy and easy to use.

[Guest]

Dolly’s Died!!!
SINGAPORE – A Singapore-based scientist who was part of the team that created Dolly the sheep, the first cloned mammal, said yesterday her premature death was proof of the many dangers of cloning.

Dolly was put to death Friday, after premature aging and disease raised questions about the practicality of cloning.

“I think it highlights more than ever the foolishness of those who want to legalize (human) reproductive cloning,” said Alan Colman, one of the scientists behind Dolly’s birth in 1996.

“In the case of humans, it would be scandalous to go ahead given our knowledge about the long-term effects of cloning,” Colman said.

Scientists decided to end Dolly’s life at age six – about half the life expectancy of her breed – because a veterinarian confirmed she had a progressive lung disease, according to the Scottish lab where she was created and lived.

Dolly was the first mammal cloned from an adult stem cell.

• i think that this scientist is not as forward thinking as he might be. I believe that there are problems with cloning, and they may be resolved. Although i am not “for” cloning, i think that the technologies involved could be put to use to better humankind.

[Yanny]

Not Dolly…

Well, it can only be expected that the first cloned animal would have a short life span. I’m sure if we recloned Dolly today, she’d live much longer.