A leopard might change his spots!

[cenator01]

The Bismarck is only good, if it sinks the Hood, otherwise its wasted.  :evil:

Maybe you can line out, what you expect your losses/gains are.
1. What are you going to send where to accomplish the task?
2. What are your expected casulties, how does the atlantic look like when UK starts its turn?
3. What are your builds and where?

I assume, you loose a fighter in Sz93 against the French Fleet. Further I assume, you will loose at least 1 or 2 subs in Sz 111.
I guess, you are attacking Sz 109, whre you need quite some airforce, to keep the Brits from scrambling 4 fighters (I guess 5 planes and 2 subs)

Probably you send 2 fighters to Italy and land most of your airforce in Holland and on the new build aircraft-carrier, while you still need some additional airprotection for your new build fleet.

Options for UK:
1. Attacking your fleet: 1 BsB, 1Crusier, 3 fighter and 1 Bomber against 1 Carrier 2 fighter 1 crusier and scrambling air cover (you need at least 2), while the french could mop up your fleet with Crusier and fighter or sink your Battelship in Sz111.

2. Not moving the Battleship to Sz111 leaves UK the option to pull back to Sz109, block 110 with a new build destroyer and 111 with the French Crusier. Italy can’t sink the Crusier because of 3 scrambling planes. Now only your airforce can hit 109 (with the remaining subs, if any). You can probably whittle down the UK fleet with heavy air casulties, but this would kill any sealion thread and remove your options to further fight for the atlantic at see, but would force you to defend the coasts of western europe.

3. Moving the Fleet to Sz92 with adding the fleet from 98 and sinking Sz96 with airforce. Leaving 1 Battleship. 1Carrier, 1 Crusier, 1 Destroyer and 2 Fighter versus the Italian sub, 2 desroyer, 2 crusier, 1 battleship and 2 fighters and a bomber: likely Outcome: Italy wins with 1 damaged Battleship and 1 Crusier left, which are subject to counter attacks by the French (crusier and fighter from 110 + London) and/or the remaining british airforce.

[Witt]

Thanks Cenator. I have 5 weeks still, so can look at more possibilities and their outcomes.
My friend wlll love a change, as he likes a challenge.

[Witt]

Have not been well, so have spent most of the day lying on the sofa thinking and rethinking this through. Should have said I planned all along to go Barbarossa on G2(hence the DD buy) and J1 DOW as I have done that.
Am probably going to cause myself countless problems with these decisions, but am after that elusive Axis 2nd Edit win.
Hope my last message did not sound too dismissive. I was enjoying hearing all your ideas.
I suppose I wonder if not attacking 110 on G1 and trying to keep Italy in the game by using German recourses in the Med, prejudices a G2 Barbarossa.
Whatever I do, my friend will call my bluff and seem to piss me off!

[Jeff28]

Did you see this thread on Save Italy Strategy?

http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=27954.0

Very interesting stuff.

Maybe saving 2-3 turns of income with Italy and then drop a mini-fleet would help?

[suprise attack]

Do you suceed with your sea lion with the 2 Trans and carrier?
I look at if I eliminate London then its one less enemy and whats the best way to get to London Hit 110 and 111, two of my table top players are going after the French fleet and the Brit. crusier. With the Brit fleet left in110 I hit the German fleet and its about 50/50, you need lucky dice. One of our players dumps hard in the Atlantic and tries to get Germany asap so I find the purchase of 1 CV, 1 DD, 1 SS, still leaves it open for a sea lion, and gives me an offensive force in the Atlantic. The longer Germany can keep controll of the Atlantic the longer they can survive the big down side is Russia can become too powerful.
Theres always the Major Factory purchase with France’s money and go all out for Russia.
Sorry to ramble on.
                            Good luck and may the dice gods be with you

[Witt]

Thanks Jeff. Will look again. Think I have seen it, but could refresh my memory.
Hi Surprise Attack. As I said, I do not like change and 110 and 111 had always been my G1, but Itsly has always paid for it. I thought I would try 91 and the French fleet, but I can see how it leaves the UK other options, equally potent.
I have only ever finished 2 Alpha3 games(lost ). The third (August )we had to abandon after G2 when I was preparing a Sealion, which would have probsbly worked. I would like to think he did not cry off with work commitments, because I had a chance of winning!
Anyway, thought I would change things, but with no intention this time of doing a Sealion, instead G2 Barbarossa and J1 DOW(have always waited until 3).
I thought the UK would run for Canada with his 110 fleet. I thought hanging around spelt its death to a G2 air attack, except I would expect him to not fly his Air to the Med to Taranto and instead hold them as scrambling units for the UK.

[Fortress]

Do you play by forum at all, wittman? There are lots of opponents here to try out strategies against, and you get to see lots of counters to those strategies. If you’ve only played 3 games, in one week you could double your experience. You could see immediate feedback (if those ships sit there, they get waxed before they can do anything) and long-term results (I could definitely capture Moscow this way, but there’s no way to get Egypt before Paris or Rome fall).

[Witt]

Thank you Fortress. I would if I had time, but cannot at the moment.
I should be playing more regularly face to face from Christmas on.
I like the dice rolling, swearing,  crisp munching and beer spilling involved too.

[Fortress]

Yeah. Because I never swear at the computer…  :roll:

:lol:

[Witt]

I was born sweering at a computer, but that is because i cannot properly work one and cannot type. The times i have blamed the computer for losing a battle and stomped swearing i would never again play… then ranted to my wife.

[Guest]

Here is my version is attached for what its worth.  Strafe z109 & lose subs if scramble; lose tac then bomber then fighter in z93 & land in Rome; Yugo planes to Rome; 3AA guns to Holland; take Finland & Bulgaria to collect $70.  UK probably sends all fleet to z92 instead of Taranto.  Hungary looks Barbarossa but sealion still possible.  Italy OK for now.

G1_SaveItaly.tsvg

[Witt]

Glad to hear your idea, Vance. Cannot download, might be as I am on my phone.
What do you mean by strafe 109? No planes? Cannot see how there are any left if you send 5 against Scapa. Do you not use the BB, leaving it to protect SZ112? (In my plan).
Rest I think I was doing.
Agree Taranto now  looks like suicide.

[Guest]

OK here it is without tripleA to view it.  Germany builds carrier, sub, destroyer in z112.

z109:
3 subs, 1 fighter, 1 tac, 1 bomber
If UK scrambles you probably lose the 3 subs and he probably loses 2 fighters. Don’t continue the fight after that first round; save your planes.  Lose bomber before the others.

z111:
battleship, 2 fighters, 2 tacs.

yugoslavia:
6 infantry from Austria, 3 armour, 1 fighter, 1 tac, land in Rome.

z91:
2 subs kill that cruiser

Normandy:
1 infantry, 1 artillery, 2 mech

z93
1 fighter, 1 tac, 1 bomber.
Roll this battle after the others so you can decide whether to lose the bomber first or the tac first (likely).  Make sure you have 3 planes that can scramble from Rome.

France:
everything else in range

Holland:
If the bomber survives z109 it will have to land here.  Put 3 AA guns and land a couple fighters to protect it.

Hungary:
Put 15 infantry and 5 artillery there in Combat Move phase because it implies G2 Barbarossa.  Hopefully UK scrambles to z109 and you kill 2 of his planes.  That leaves just 2 to do Taranto and defend against sealion.  If the enemy believes you are not doing sealion and they attack Taranto you may build 10 transports in z113 and move everything from Hungary back to Germany.  If they don’t trust you they will be tempted to move the ships from z110 and z98 all to z92, which is a good move for them.  Meanwhile Italy has bought time and can assemble a nice fleet of its own in z97.

[Witt]

Thank you. Am sorry you had to type if up.
I will see how similar it was to my idea.

[Guest]

You might pick out a few pieces that you like

[cond1024]

Have you tried a straight rush for Moscow? G1 buy 1strat bomb, 1 sub, and either 2 tanks or 3 mechs.  Hit 110, 111, 106, Pais, Yugoslav but retreat after one round of fighting and retreat to Romania (so you will need to bring 1 inf from Rom). Attack Russia on G2 and put everything in east Poland. Also on G2 SBR London with everything you got 3sb on complex, 1-2 tacs on AB and NB. G2 buy is tanks and mechs for Russia. G3 move stack to west Ukraine, G4 move to Bryansk and SBR Moscow and start buying defense for western allies.  On the other side don’t attack with Japan until J4. By doing this US is stuck on the sidelines and can’t do anything in Europe until Round 4 (Africa R4 and Europe R5) but by that time Germany is on Moscow’s doorstep and should be able to take Moscow G5. With Italy I have them take S France, Yugoslav, Greece, then turtle if their navy was destroyed.

[Witt]

Thank you Cond. I am an old fashioned A&A Axis player, so my heart is set on the subjugation of Russia and Sealion has never figured in my plans. Am used to neutering Britain on G1 and waiting for her slow build up and eventual Western landing. Your idea is attractive to me, especially avoiding US’ early entry into War.
I have, though, set my mind on a mad and probably more exciting, take on the world strategy, only as I have never done it before.
We will certainly play more than once, so will have the opportunity to mix things up.

[Witt]

@Vance. Looked at your suggestion. I like it and can see why UK moving to SZ92 is such a good move. Can I ask why you would attack Normandy and not South France? I can see France could attack Holland with his 2 ground and UK Ft, but as you said 3AA, BB and 1Ft could deter him. I only ask as taking S France with ( has to be)3Mech and 1TK as Air needed elsewhere, would give Italy a landing place for a SZ92 5Naval and 3 Air attack against UK 5Naval and 2Fts. Germany could finish off, even if Fr CR joins from 110.(I think.) Only UK counter I see is a Gib Air Base. If that happens: Sealion definitely!
Otherwise UK 92 move stalemates Italy as much as Taranto(possibly more so).
Please point out if I have missed out any UK counter, or unit, to the otherwise slightly favoured Italian 8-7 UK battle.
I am loving seeing a different situation and map end T1.

[Guest]

I would take Normandy for the $2.  Taking South France instead does allow an Italian airstrike, but I want the British to feel safe in z92.  If you take South France instead you may get to sink their blockers, but it might also tip their thinking back toward doing Taranto which is what you don’t want them to do.

[Witt]

Thank you. I did not realise it was a mind game!
I am going to go with your idea, but with my S France instead of Normandy.
Then look at both Taranto and SZ92 skulking as UK options.
I think I would rather they ran for Canada and then when Sealion succeeds Canada, out of the generosity of its heart, agrees to absorb the UK and its colonies into the Greater Canadian Empire. And everyone is happy!