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RIP Patrick Tillman
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Purple hearts are given out for wounded men in combat. Tillman died fighting. Exactly how can a symbol of heroism deflect anything? [edited by GG] He would get that medal if he was Tillman or not.
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@Imperious:
Purple hearts are given out for wounded men in combat. Tillman died fighting. Exactly how can a symbol of heroism deflect anything? People aren’t that stupid. He would get that medal if he was Tillman or not.
Really, I don’t know why I bothered.
I was referring to the Silver Star. Which was shown to be awarded for reasons that did not exist, while the true reasons for his death were suppressed. When the truth came out, the story changed. My comment was referring to the infrequency of the award being given out, especially under such dubious circumstances.
No one has said anything about a Purple Heart until you did just now.
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@Imperious:
Purple hearts are given out for wounded men in combat. Tillman died fighting. Exactly how can a symbol of heroism deflect anything? People aren’t that stupid. He would get that medal if he was Tillman or not.
Tillman died fighting?
Excuse me sir, but he did not…
Tillman died yelling “I’m Pat F***ing Tillman” whilst during a second interval, of his own troops shooting at him. A full minute + after popping a smoke grenade.
There were NO enemy combatants, and NO combat actions that warranted heroism that day.
He took 3 bullets to the face from a heavy machinegun, and an Afghan Conscript (AMA) working with him that day was also obliterated at the same time, for the same actions, with NO Medal.
Clearly you are totally unaware of any of the facts [edited by GG]
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[edited by GG]
Tillman died fighting?
"Tillman’s platoon was in the region as part of a spring offensive called Operation Mountain Storm, aimed at rooting out hard-line Taliban and al-Qaeda fighters. "
So much for “not fighting” commentary…
There were NO enemy combatants, and NO combat actions that warranted heroism that day.
They were to engage the enemy in an offensive campaign:
“Tillman, 27, and his team were initially not in danger from the hostile small-arms and mortar fire when the April 22 ambush began. But when the rear section of their convoy became pinned down in rough terrain, Tillman ordered his team out of its vehicles “to take the fight to the enemy forces” on the higher ground.”
As Tillman and other soldiers neared the hill’s crest, he directed his team into firing positions, the Army said. As he sprayed the enemy positions with fire from his automatic rifle, he was shot and killed. The Army said his actions helped the trapped soldiers maneuver to safety “without taking a single casualty.”
He deserved that medal, so kindly delete your membership because you look stupid again. Go ahead and blame Tillman like you blame that little girl ( AKA “The coward”) for hanging herself in another thread. Or blame me. Just never blame yourself.
I was referring to the Silver Star.
I was referring to the purple heart as an example of how a person can get medals for being wounded. Tillman paid with his life while protecting his men. Do you need me to explain that point another way or is it that hard? You can get medals for lessor acts of heroism. Silver Star is the third medal from the top. Based on the definition of what the medal is for, Tillman could have received it. It is easy to sit in a chair and make up nonsense of how people are ‘covering up’ without being in that moment fighting and dying. It is all too easy to point fingers and make up conspiracy theory.
Anyway, it was the ARMY that gave out the medal, not some directive of the Bush administration. It’s not like Bush is sitting in a chair waiting for recon reports from Pat Tillman right?
Pat Tillman must be high up the food chain. Either way a claim like that needs to be backed up, which is why Canuck was chastised. I know you hate Bush as well, so don’t sully us with your own attempts to make somebody you hate even worse with flimsy arguments that Bush got involved and ordered this and that. [edited by GG] -
Quote
“Tillman, 27, and his team were initially not in danger from the hostile small-arms and mortar fire when the April 22 ambush began. But when the rear section of their convoy became pinned down in rough terrain, Tillman ordered his team out of its vehicles “to take the fight to the enemy forces” on the higher ground.”
As Tillman and other soldiers neared the hill’s crest, he directed his team into firing positions, the Army said. As he sprayed the enemy positions with fire from his automatic rifle, he was shot and killed. The Army said his actions helped the trapped soldiers maneuver to safety “without taking a single casualty.”
He deserved that medal, so kindly delete your membership because you look stupid again. Go ahead and blame Tillman like you blame that little girl ( AKA “The coward”) for hanging herself in another thread. Or blame me. Just never blame yourself
None of the underlined happend. That’s what the whole discussion is about. The american public, including yourself was lied to, and the facts came out later.
-There was no Ambush
-There was no Taliban
-There were no trapped soldiers
-There was no event to merit a silver star
-There was no rounds fired by Tillman
-The citation on the Silver Star is a complete fabricationJust never blame yourself
I’m not the one that has problems with this. You’re the one with the problem, and your the one disgracing Tillman and his entire family is this thread. You can’t admit wrong -ever- and it’s a personal fault you carry around your neck, everywhere you go. [edited by GG]
Drink a cup full of humble this morning, you just got owned by the facts.
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And you can check all the name calling at the door.
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Just another day at the office. :mrgreen:
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None of the underlined happend. That’s what the whole discussion is about. The american public, including yourself was lied to, and the facts came out later.
-There was no Ambush
-There was no Taliban
-There were no trapped soldiers
-There was no event to merit a silver star
-There was no rounds fired by Tillman
-The citation on the Silver Star is a complete fabricationBush or his administration didn’t order the medal and they didn’t coverup anything. You might want to know what i am saying specifically, rather than gloss over what i was pointing out.
The actual point i made was that whatever happened was not from Bush, he didn’t cover up anything, nor disgrace Tillman. The army made its own decision in any event.
My main contention is about not making excuses to blame BUSH by combining any poor decision with Bush somehow into it.
DON’T BLAME BUSH!
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Also, this is just another “make another thread that makes something US did and make them look bad” which from you flows like popcorn on these boards.
We get it. You are Canadian and love Canada and hate America. It has been obvious for years…
He was given the medal based on what he intended to do and giving out a medal only brings attention to the matter, not covering up because people will always scrutinize the decisions.
Kinda like when you blame emotionally undeveloped young girls for hanging themselves. But in that case you sully EVERYONE with your ignorance.
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Is it frosty in here or is it just me?? :? :? :?
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It is November…
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@Imperious:
I was referring to the purple heart as an example of how a person can get medals for being wounded. Tillman paid with his life while protecting his men. Do you need me to explain that point another way or is it that hard? You can get medals for lessor acts of heroism. Silver Star is the third medal from the top. Based on the definition of what the medal is for, Tillman could have received it. It is easy to sit in a chair and make up nonsense of how people are ‘covering up’ without being in that moment fighting and dying. It is all too easy to point fingers and make up conspiracy theory.
It’s obvious he would be awarded a Purple Heart. No one is arguing that. I’m not sure why you decided to bring that up when we were discussing the Silver Star. It is not material to the discussion at hand.
There is no conspiracy theory: there were multiple people attempting to cover up his death. It is fact. Denying it won’t change that.
Anyway, it was the ARMY that gave out the medal, not some directive of the Bush administration. It’s not like Bush is sitting in a chair waiting for recon reports from Pat Tillman right?
Pat Tillman must be high up the food chain. Either way a claim like that needs to be backed up, which is why Canuck was chastised. I know you hate Bush as well, so don’t sully us with your own attempts to make somebody you hate even worse with flimsy arguments that Bush got involved and ordered this and that. [edited by GG]I never liked Bush, but I also never brought him up. (I also give him credit where it’s due and the basic respect a president deserves.) So you can stop right there and quit arguing words you put in my mouth.
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So you can stop right there and quit arguing words you put in my mouth.
You seem to think that was for you. It was not. The word anyway was part of my attempt at bringing back my main point.
there were multiple people attempting to cover up his death.
My point was that it was not BUSH or his administration that did anything in that regard. That is a fact. Denying it won’t change that.
Let’s first determine what i’m saying before responding. :-D
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To IL:
Please, please, please, read the book.
Your ignorance is PAINFUL and your ad hominem attacks on Garg for some other completely unrelated thread only serve to weaken your position, because it emphasises how you can’t support your views with relevant evidence.
For your own sake. Please get more informed, you are embarrassing yourself.
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So books written for the purpose of selling copies carry the truth and nothing but the truth? They are NEVER written in a manner to make incredible claims so people will buy the book? Oh sure.
Right. You should read Jesse Ventura and all his conspiracy theroys. He writes about Ape man armies and 9 foot lizard people who live under the earth. He sells books too by other means.
Don’t let books alone determine the truth quotient. At least quote a non-fiction source… not some writer who makes a new book every month. Geez
Did Tillman’s family give back the medal? nope. If they did you would have their own opinion of this “Bush generated coverup decision” But since they kept it they remain the only people that matter with regard to how their son was treated. He was a hero and deserved the medal. That’s it.
Now you read this book. Because it is a book that means it conveys 100% of the truth. Operators are on the line currently selling bridges to people who believe that.
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No one every said book are 100% truth? What are you on about? Why do you keep bringing up completely unrelated things?
Books contain information. Information helps people create informed opinions. That’s why I recommended reading the book. It’s sad that I had to spell that out for you, but I guess you have spent to much time reading about the lizard man.
Patrick Tillman was/is a hero.
But he didn’t deserve some trumped-up medal. He deserved better. He didn’t deserve to have his family lied to. He didn’t deserve to be used to legitimize the war. And he didn’t deserve to die in a war that he himself thought was bullshit.
Because you brought up his family, it feels apt to quote his father, Pat Tillman Sr.:
“'They gave him a medal and he didn’t deserve it. And that’s no insult to Pat to say that. He didn’t need a decoration. He was an outstanding human being and an outstanding soldier.’”
And his Mother Mary Tillman:
“'To lie is the most horrible thing, and we have been lied to,’ she says. 'It’s an atrocity that they would take a young man with honourable intentions who’d served his country and then lie about how he died to promote a war. To use him as a propaganda tool, basically. That is immoral.’”
Imperious Leader, you disgrace his legacy.
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So they kept the medal. if they really felt that way it would have been returned. Like how you skip over that. So he deserved the Medal of Honor? Not sure about that. I think the medal he got was what he should have got based on his intentions.
He didn’t deserve to be used to legitimize the war.
He volunteered. He was not ‘used’ his family was not told the truth till later, but they were told.
No one every said book are 100% truth? What are you on about?
Well you said “just read the damm book” like it was the final answer. It wasn’t.
Canuck12, we have yet to see how Bush is involved, rather than the Army.
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@Imperious:
So they kept the medal. if they really felt that way it would have been returned.
So you are suggesting that his family is lying about they way they feel about their son’s death because that is more convenient for your beliefs? Are you deranged?
@Imperious:
So he deserved the Medal of Honor? Not sure about that.
Who said he deserved the Medal of Honour? Why do you keep making things up? The topic is simple, are you having trouble focussing? You said you are not sure…
@Imperious:
Canuck12, we have yet to see how Bush is involved, rather than the Army.
It is so sad that I need to keep giving you information piece by piece because you seem incapable of doing ANY of your own research.
"Just how far up the chain of command the alleged cover-up ran would finally become apparent in March 2007, when a confidential army memo was leaked to the Associated Press news agency. The memo had been sent by Major Gen Stanley McChrystal of Joint Special Operations Command to Gen Kensinger, Gen John Abizaid, the head of US Central Command, and Gen Bryan Douglas Brown, the head of the US Special Operations Command.
It was dated April 29 2004, the day before the army released the fictionalised account of Tillman’s death in the Silver Star citation – which had been approved by McChrystal himself. In the memo McChrystal warned that the army investigation then nearing completion would find it 'highly possible’ that Tillman was killed by friendly fire, and that 'Potus’ – the President of the United States, George Bush – should beware of any comments he might make 'about Corporal Tillman’s heroism and his approved Silver Star medal in speeches currently being prepared’.
'I felt that it was essential that you received this information as soon as we detected it,’ the memo went on, 'in order to preclude any unknowing statements by our country’s leaders which might cause public embarrassment if the circumstances of Corporal Tillman’s death become public.’
In a speech two days later at the annual White House Correspondents’ Association dinner, Bush commended Pat Tillman for feeling 'called to defend America’, but conspicuously avoided any mention whatsoever of the manner of his death.
To Mary Tillman, the most incriminating word in McChrystal’s memo is the smallest. 'He says “if” the circumstances of Pat’s death become public, not “when”. Why would it say “if” if they weren’t trying to keep it quiet?’ -
@Imperious:
So you can stop right there and quit arguing words you put in my mouth.
You seem to think that was for you. It was not. The word anyway was part of my attempt at bringing back my main point.
there were multiple people attempting to cover up his death.
My point was that it was not BUSH or his administration that did anything in that regard. That is a fact. Denying it won’t change that.
Let’s first determine what i’m saying before responding. :-D
So you responded to me as if I were someone else? Is that it? You make no sense.
I smell a coverup. :roll:
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So you are suggesting that his family is lying about they way they feel about their son’s death because that is more convenient for your beliefs? Are you deranged?
No i am suggesting they kept the medal, which is the ultimate clue to how they feel.
So you responded to me as if I were someone else?
I respond to you and others, ‘Anyway’ being the key segway word to return and recapitulate my main point.
Who said he deserved the Medal of Honour? Why do you keep making things up?
I’m making the point that the medal he got was what he deserved. No less or more.
It is so sad that I need to keep giving you information piece by piece
The info you provide is worthless. and nothing credible to tie Bush into covering up anything.
This nonsense below shows no proof that Bush ordered any coverup:
"Just how far up the chain of command the alleged cover-up ran would finally become apparent in March 2007, when a confidential army memo was leaked to the Associated Press news agency. The memo had been sent by Major Gen Stanley McChrystal of Joint Special Operations Command to Gen Kensinger, Gen John Abizaid, the head of US Central Command, and Gen Bryan Douglas Brown, the head of the US Special Operations Command.
It was dated April 29 2004, the day before the army released the fictionalised account of Tillman�s death in the Silver Star citation � which had been approved by McChrystal himself. In the memo McChrystal warned that the army investigation then nearing completion would find it 'highly possible� that Tillman was killed by friendly fire, and that 'Potus� � the President of the United States, George Bush � should beware of any comments he might make 'about Corporal Tillman�s heroism and his approved Silver Star medal in speeches currently being prepared�.
'I felt that it was essential that you received this information as soon as we detected it,� the memo went on, 'in order to preclude any unknowing statements by our country�s leaders which might cause public embarrassment if the circumstances of Corporal Tillman�s death become public.�
In a speech two days later at the annual White House Correspondents� Association dinner, Bush commended Pat Tillman for feeling 'called to defend America�, but conspicuously avoided any mention whatsoever of the manner of his death.
To Mary Tillman, the most incriminating word in McChrystal�s memo is the smallest. 'He says �if� the circumstances of Pat�s death become public, not �when�. Why would it say �if� if they weren�t trying to keep it quiet?�
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