RIP Patrick Tillman

[Imperious Leader]

Giving out a medal does not ‘cover up’ acts of friendly fire either.

[Canuck12]

Those who have something relevant to say should continue to post.

IL should do some research and get back to us.

[Canuck12]

Actually there is a lot even I didnt know about this story.

This guy was fcucking badass.

[edited by GG: flaming?] I will link [IL] to an excellent article summarising the lead-up, event and aftermath.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/8046658/Betrayal-of-an-all-American-hero.html

Here is a snippet which relates to my comment about the “Whitehouse administration” at the time.

"In Afghanistan, a series of highly unusual steps had been put in train in the immediate aftermath of Tillman�s death. Other members of the platoon were ordered to say nothing of the incident, and phone and internet connections at the base were shut down. His brother Kevin, who had not witnessed the incident and knew only that Pat had been killed but not how, was put in 'quarantine�, and within days would be sent home with Pat�s body, accompanied by another soldier who was under strict instructions not to tell Kevin or the family what had happened.
In contravention of army protocol, which stipulates that the uniforms of fallen soldiers be returned to America, Pat�s uniform, helmet and combat vest were destroyed, along with his notebook. Within hours, an army captain, Richard Scott, was ordered to prepare a report on the incident. His draft investigation, prepared in a matter of days, was condemnatory. Tillman�s death, Scott concluded, was fratricide � the military term for friendly fire � and the result of an act of 'gross negligence� by soldiers in Serial 2. He recommended to head�quarters that there should be a further investigation by the army�s Criminal Investigation Command to establish whether there had been 'criminal intent� in the killing.

[Imperious Leader]

"In Afghanistan, a series of highly unusual steps had been put in train in the immediate aftermath of Tillman�s death. Other members of the platoon were ordered to say nothing of the incident, and phone and internet connections at the base were shut down. His brother Kevin, who had not witnessed the incident and knew only that Pat had been killed but not how, was put in 'quarantine�, and within days would be sent home with Pat�s body, accompanied by another soldier who was under strict instructions not to tell Kevin or the family what had happened.
In contravention of army protocol, which stipulates that the uniforms of fallen soldiers be returned to America, Pat�s uniform, helmet and combat vest were destroyed, along with his notebook. Within hours, an army captain, Richard Scott, was ordered to prepare a report on the incident. His draft investigation, prepared in a matter of days, was condemnatory. Tillman�s death, Scott concluded, was fratricide � the military term for friendly fire � and the result of an act of 'gross negligence� by soldiers in Serial 2. He recommended to head�quarters that there should be a further investigation by the army�s Criminal Investigation Command to establish whether there had been 'criminal intent� in the killing.

Again nothing about Bush giving orders to give medal to “cover up” friendly fire.

Not even a good try. I think Carter gave the order to kill Tillman. Based on what you posted it’s just as plausible.

I got a hangnail. I think I’ll blame Bush for it. :roll:

I read that thing and nowhere does it say Bush ordered any medal or coverup anything. In fact McCain ordered an investigation to find the truth.

[edited by GG] Bush didn’t try to make political gains from anything or cover up anything. Just nonsense.

[Canuck12]

I never said Bush ordered him killed.
I never said Bush gave him the medal.
I never said anybody gave the order to kill him.

It’s easy to put down non-existent arguments isn’t it? Blame Carter, blame whoever you want. I don’t care.

I also don’t believe you read the article. [edited by GG: seriously? Insults?]

Either way, I’m done debating you on this. Like every other topic you weigh in on, you are completely obtuse and unable to reason. In stead choosing to take any opportunity to misrepresent what people say and construct straw-man arguments to put down. Why you continually do this I will never understand.

Other’s on the thread can do their own research and I encourage it.

Perhaps we can both agree that this was a brave man who died tragically. [edited by GG]

[Imperious Leader]

I never said Bush ordered him killed.
I never said Bush gave him the medal.
I never said anybody gave the order to kill him.

“If you ask me, the Bush administration disgraced every recipient of the Silver Star and every other soldier in the war when they sold out the award for political gain by using it to try to cover-up the circumstances of his death.”

I thought it was clear that Bush and his Administration are the same thing?

I guess not.

The Bush administration had nothing to do with that incident.  The article does not say anything about how the Bush administration covered up anything. Rather, it is you reading into something  and making up things due to your hatred of Bush personally. I did read it. Show me where the article blames the Bush Administration for anything? You can’t which is the point i made all along.

They ( “the Bush Administration”) didn’t ‘sell’ or give out any award, the Army gave out the award and the administration didn’t cover up anything either or try to make political gains.

The only gain was you trying to convince yourself that Bush is “evil” and make a point based on your own bias. [edited by GG]

I’m blaming carter for this. :mrgreen:

[Canuck12]

Tell, you what.

If it makes you happy I will remove my original post. And replace it with the link the the article and the book and the film. That way people can research and learn for themselves.

Maybe its all Carter’s fault. Speaking of things that are all Carter’s fault: Everyone go see Argo.

[Imperious Leader]

Argo********self.

[Canuck12]

:-)

[Jermofoot]

@Imperious:

Giving out a medal does not ‘cover up’ acts of friendly fire either.

It sure as hell seems like deflection to me, whether a medal was warranted or not.

[Imperious Leader]

Purple hearts are given out for wounded men in combat. Tillman died fighting. Exactly how can a symbol of heroism deflect anything? [edited by GG] He would get that medal if he was Tillman or not.

[Jermofoot]

@Imperious:

Purple hearts are given out for wounded men in combat. Tillman died fighting. Exactly how can a symbol of heroism deflect anything? People aren’t that stupid. He would get that medal if he was Tillman or not.

Really, I don’t know why I bothered.

I was referring to the Silver Star.  Which was shown to be awarded for reasons that did not exist, while the true reasons for his death were suppressed. When the truth came out, the story changed.  My comment was referring to the infrequency of the award being given out, especially under such dubious circumstances.

No one has said anything about a Purple Heart until you did just now.

[Gargantua]

@Imperious:

Purple hearts are given out for wounded men in combat. Tillman died fighting. Exactly how can a symbol of heroism deflect anything? People aren’t that stupid. He would get that medal if he was Tillman or not.

Tillman died fighting?

Excuse me sir, but he did not…

Tillman died yelling “I’m Pat F***ing Tillman” whilst during a second interval, of his own troops shooting at him. A full minute + after popping a smoke grenade.

There were NO enemy combatants, and NO combat actions that warranted heroism that day.

He took 3 bullets to the face from a heavy machinegun, and an Afghan Conscript (AMA) working with him that day was also obliterated at the same time, for the same actions, with NO Medal.

Clearly you are totally unaware of any of the facts [edited by GG]

[Imperious Leader]

[edited by GG]

Tillman died fighting?

"Tillman’s platoon was in the region as part of a spring offensive called Operation Mountain Storm, aimed at rooting out hard-line Taliban and al-Qaeda fighters. "

So much for “not fighting” commentary…

There were NO enemy combatants, and NO combat actions that warranted heroism that day.

They were to engage the enemy in an offensive campaign:

“Tillman, 27, and his team were initially not in danger from the hostile small-arms and mortar fire when the April 22 ambush began. But when the rear section of their convoy became pinned down in rough terrain, Tillman ordered his team out of its vehicles “to take the fight to the enemy forces” on the higher ground.”

As Tillman and other soldiers neared the hill’s crest, he directed his team into firing positions, the Army said. As he sprayed the enemy positions with fire from his automatic rifle, he was shot and killed. The Army said his actions helped the trapped soldiers maneuver to safety “without taking a single casualty.”

He deserved that medal, so kindly delete your membership because you look stupid again. Go ahead and blame Tillman like you blame that little girl ( AKA “The coward”) for hanging herself in another thread. Or blame me. Just never blame yourself.

I was referring to the Silver Star.

I was referring to the purple heart as an example of how a person can get medals for being wounded. Tillman paid with his life while protecting his men. Do you need me to explain that point another way or is it that hard? You can get medals for lessor acts of heroism. Silver Star is the third medal from the top. Based on the definition of what the medal is for, Tillman could have received it. It is easy to sit in a chair and make up nonsense of how people are ‘covering up’ without being in that moment fighting and dying. It is all too easy to point fingers and make up conspiracy theory.

Anyway, it was the ARMY that gave out the medal, not some directive of the Bush administration. It’s not like Bush is sitting in a chair waiting for recon reports from Pat Tillman right?
Pat Tillman must be high up the food chain. Either way a claim like that needs to be backed up, which is why Canuck was chastised. I know you hate Bush as well, so don’t sully us with your own attempts to make somebody you hate even worse with flimsy arguments that Bush got involved and ordered this and that. [edited by GG]

[Gargantua]

Quote

“Tillman, 27, and his team were initially not in danger from the hostile small-arms and mortar fire when the April 22 ambush began. But when the rear section of their convoy became pinned down in rough terrain, Tillman ordered his team out of its vehicles “to take the fight to the enemy forces” on the higher ground.”

As Tillman and other soldiers neared the hill’s crest, he directed his team into firing positions, the Army said. As he sprayed the enemy positions with fire from his automatic rifle, he was shot and killed. The Army said his actions helped the trapped soldiers maneuver to safety “without taking a single casualty.”

He deserved that medal, so kindly delete your membership because you look stupid again. Go ahead and blame Tillman like you blame that little girl ( AKA “The coward”) for hanging herself in another thread. Or blame me. Just never blame yourself

None of the underlined happend. That’s what the whole discussion is about. The american public, including yourself was lied to, and the facts came out later.

-There was no Ambush
-There was no Taliban
-There were no trapped soldiers
-There was no event to merit a silver star
-There was no rounds fired by Tillman
-The citation on the Silver Star is a complete fabrication

Just never blame yourself

I’m not the one that has problems with this.  You’re the one with the problem, and your the one disgracing Tillman and his entire family is this thread. You can’t admit wrong -ever- and it’s a personal fault you carry around your neck, everywhere you go. [edited by GG]

Drink a cup full of humble this morning, you just got owned by the facts.

[Gargantua]

And you can check all the name calling at the door.

[Guerrilla Guy]

Just another day at the office.  :mrgreen:

[Imperious Leader]

None of the underlined happend. That’s what the whole discussion is about. The american public, including yourself was lied to, and the facts came out later.

-There was no Ambush
-There was no Taliban
-There were no trapped soldiers
-There was no event to merit a silver star
-There was no rounds fired by Tillman
-The citation on the Silver Star is a complete fabrication

Bush or his administration didn’t order the medal and they didn’t coverup anything. You might want to know what i am saying specifically, rather than gloss over what i was pointing out.

The actual point i made was that whatever happened was not from Bush, he didn’t cover up anything, nor disgrace Tillman. The army made its own decision in any event.

My main contention is about not making excuses to blame BUSH by combining any poor decision with Bush somehow into it.

DON’T BLAME BUSH!

[Imperious Leader]

Also, this is just another “make another thread that makes something US did and make them look bad” which from you flows like popcorn on these boards.

We get it. You are Canadian and love Canada and hate America. It has been obvious for years…

He was given the medal based on what he intended to do and giving out a medal only brings attention to the matter, not covering up because people will always scrutinize the decisions.

Kinda like when you blame emotionally undeveloped young girls for hanging themselves. But in that case you sully EVERYONE with your ignorance.

[aequitas-et-veritas]

Is it frosty in here or is it just me?? :? :? :?