XDAP03 Norse elite vs. TeamBoldDutch

[Gargantua]

Can’t they?

[gamerman01]

Yes…… that’s what that means…

Has been clearly stated by Krieghund - deal with it

[boldfresh]

you mean tachs can be sent at IC’s but their rolls will not count toward the damage total?

[boldfresh]

i think something’s very wrong.  i have rolled quite a few times now and have not seen a roll above a 6.  the strat bombers should be rolling 7’s and 8’s sometimes…  also, the tach is being allowed to bomb the IC as well - perhaps that somehow neuters the strat bombers and makes them roll like tachs (dr only, no +2 bonus).  i’ll try a few more times sending only the strat bombers.

[Bjergmose]

How does your in-game rolls compare to the ones send by email?

Are they the same, +2 or just different (as was the case in our game)?

The plot thickens 8-)

[gamerman01]

@Boldfresh:

you mean tachs can be sent at IC’s but their rolls will not count toward the damage total?

No.  The AA fire occurs before the planes are assigned targets.  If you take AA hits, you can remove your tacs.  After selecting casualties, you assign your planes to targets.  All planes must be assigned to legal targets, so Tacs can never be assigned to an IC

[boldfresh]

I see no correlation.  in fact i think the mart dice are always either 1 or 2.  the rolls in tripleD are always at least 3 but i haven’t seen one above 6 in many rolls but i have before in the last game.

[gamerman01]

@Gamerman01:

@Boldfresh:

you mean tachs can be sent at IC’s but their rolls will not count toward the damage total?

No.  The AA fire occurs before the planes are assigned targets.  If you take AA hits, you can remove your tacs.  After selecting casualties, you assign your planes to targets.  All planes must be assigned to legal targets, so Tacs can never be assigned to an IC

No, this is wrong - I checked the rules…
Aircraft are assigned, then AA is rolled against them.  You could only take off a Tac instead of a Strat if you sent at least 1 Tac and 1 Strat at the same AB or NB!

That’s probably why Garg was confused.

[boldfresh]

TripleD asks for assignment before Aa  rolls.

V has said tripleD doesn’t do everything right and we are responsible to know and play by the rules.  but we have to figure out how the actual dice are working!

[gamerman01]

So tacs do shield Strats in the air vs. air battle (because owner of unit chooses casualties), and in the rare event that a tac and strat are both sent at the same base, the tac can shield a strat from AA

[gamerman01]

@Boldfresh:

TripleD asks for assignment before Aa  rolls.

This is correct - if you read my corrected statement I wrote before you wrote this

[boldfresh]

one note:  even if the aircraft are assigned to different targets, the aa fire all rolls at once.  we need to confirm that tripleA distinguishes that the different targets are firing independently at the different groups of aircraft and casualties are treated accordingly, not en masse.

the other thing i have been wondering about for some time is whether triple A distinguishes between what fighters are on what carrier.  it would be the same as with transports where you specify the exact transport onto which you are loading, but I have never seen it ask for that choice (could be coincidence that there was just never any other possibility than what i was doing, and i haven’t played much tripleA yet so that could very well be possible).

Verqyn, can you speak to these two questions?

Thanks!

[Veqryn]

first off, you guys are playing with a way out of date map (and maybe out of date triplea versions too?)

The current version of the map is version 3.3

your version is 2.8

there are various bugs in the 2.8 version

Also, in the 2.8 version there were various things that were not completed yet.
For example, in 2.8 and previous versions Tactical Bombers could bomb Factories.  However, just because triplea does not stop you, does not mean you have a license to go against the rules. 
I specifically wrote this in the game notes: That playing this map on TripleA does not absolve you from knowing the rules of how to play the game.
Just like when playing the board game in real life, there is nothing stopping you from using tactical bombers (or any other unit) from making strategic bombing raids.  It is up to you to know the rules and play by them.

For the question of how does bombing work on TripleA, here are the steps in their exact order:

Bombers will each roll a 1-6 sided die.
This Dice result will get mailed to you from MARTI.  (therefore the dice results you see will be 1-6 in natura)
AFTER Receiving the dice results, TripleA will add “2” to the result for all Bombers (tactical bombers do not get any bonus), and that is the result you will see inside TripleA.

I do not have your dice results, and I can not recreate the situation because I am using a newer version of the map.

However, I can confirm that at least when using TripleA 1.6.1.2 and Global 1940 version 3.3, that it plays exactly by the rules.

I suggest you update your map, and play all future games using that updated map.  You can also (after updating) do some quick tests by yourself to confirm this:
1. Start a new game (PBEM or Local, you should try this in both)
2. Use edit mode to give Germany 99 Bombers, and use edit mode to delete the fighters in France or UK (so you won’t get asked about scrambling)
3. Bomb france or UK with all 99 Bombers
4. Watch the dice results, and compare them with the dice shown in TripleA.
(you will see the dice results as: 1, 3, 6, 4, 2, 5, etc.  And the dice in TripleA will be exactly 2 higher: 3, 5, 8, 6, 4, 7 )

[Veqryn]

this game started in october (and you are using map version 2.8)

version 3.3 has been out since start of August
(and 2.9 was released in early June)

because you started the game with 2.8, it will continue as 2.8.  you should still update your map though.

if you want to convert it to 3.3, you must start a new game as 3.3, then fast forward to the round and turn you are on currently (doing all political actions you need to do on the way), then use edit mode to make the map look the same.

[boldfresh]

we are not getting rolls for convoy disruption - is that some option that must be chosen at the beginning of the game, or is that in issue with using an out of date map?

[boldfresh]

the good news is, i do not think any rolls that have occurred are invalid per se.  obviously the tac bomber was shot down - the only question may be what the actual damage on the london IC should have been…

[boldfresh]

one lesson here is that before a new game begins, make sure there is a pow-wow about what technology we are all using!  :lol:

i am up for converting to the appropriate technology - shouldn’t be too hard since only 1 round is in the books.  :-)

[Veqryn]

you are not getting rolls because your map is out of date, i sent you a private message explaining this previously.

IN version 3.3 of Global 1940, WHEN played using the triplea engine version 1.6.1.2 or later, you will:
1. Not be able to assign Tactical bombers to Factories
2. Get convoy damage rolls

until then, it is up to you to not bomb factories with your tacticals

and until then, all convoys rolls are equal to “1”

Please update and start playing on 3.3, you will immediately see the differences

[allweneedislove]

@Veqryn:

first off, you guys are playing with a way out of date map (and maybe out of date triplea versions too?)

The current version of the map is version 3.3

your version is 2.8

there are various bugs in the 2.8 version

Also, in the 2.8 version there were various things that were not completed yet.
For example, in 2.8 and previous versions Tactical Bombers could bomb Factories.� However, just because triplea does not stop you, does not mean you have a license to go against the rules.�
I specifically wrote this in the game notes: That playing this map on TripleA does not absolve you from knowing the rules of how to play the game.
Just like when playing the board game in real life, there is nothing stopping you from using tactical bombers (or any other unit) from making strategic bombing raids.� It is up to you to know the rules and play by them.

For the question of how does bombing work on TripleA, here are the steps in their exact order:

Bombers will each roll a 1-6 sided die.
This Dice result will get mailed to you from MARTI.� (therefore the dice results you see will be 1-6 in natura)
AFTER Receiving the dice results, TripleA will add “2” to the result for all Bombers (tactical bombers do not get any bonus), and that is the result you will see inside TripleA.

I do not have your dice results, and I can not recreate the situation because I am using a newer version of the map.

However, I can confirm that at least when using TripleA 1.6.1.2 and Global 1940 version 3.3, that it plays exactly by the rules.

I suggest you update your map, and play all future games using that updated map.� You can also (after updating) do some quick tests by yourself to confirm this:
1. Start a new game (PBEM or Local, you should try this in both)
2. Use edit mode to give Germany 99 Bombers, and use edit mode to delete the fighters in France or UK (so you won’t get asked about scrambling)
3. Bomb france or UK with all 99 Bombers
4. Watch the dice results, and compare them with the dice shown in TripleA.
(you will see the dice results as: 1, 3, 6, 4, 2, 5, etc.� And the dice in TripleA will be exactly 2 higher: 3, 5, 8, 6, 4, 7 )

thanks for all your work veq. myself and many others have a lot of fun using your program.
and thank you for taking the time to look at this game and the excellent long written reply.

[boldfresh]

i likewise thank you Veq.  amazing work you have done.  all we need to do is decide how best to handle the damage roll (11 is average, 12 was the actual shown, whether or not it is valid, we are not far from average anyway) and upgrade to map version 3.3.